Chinese missile could shift Pacific power balance

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Not this DF-21 nonsense again. The damn thing is barely in the testing stage. Do you people have any idea on how long it took an infantryman's rifle to go from testing to deployment, let alone a nuclear warhead capable missile?

In April I watched the launch of the X37B,

Test Vehicle lifted off at 7:52 p.m. EDT Thursday from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, the Air Force said in a statement. It called the launch of the winged spacecraft a success, but released no immediate details of the mission's progress.

The space plane is to serve as a test platform for unspecified experiments and can remain in orbit up to 270 days before gliding to an autonomous runway landing, the Air Force has said. The craft's primary landing site is Vandenberg Air Force Base on the California coast northwest of Los Angeles.The mission length wasn't disclosed by the Air Force.

The service has made public only a general description of the mission objectives: testing of guidance, navigation, control, thermal protection and autonomous operation in orbit, re-entry and landing.

However, the ultimate purpose of the X-37B and details about the craft have longed remained a mystery, though experts said the spacecraft was intended to speed up development of combat-support systems and weapons systems.

"This launch helps ensure that our warfighters will be provided the capabilities they need in the future," said Col. Andre Lovett, a launch official and vice commander of the Air Force's 45th Space Wing, in Thursday's statement.

The launch culminated the project's long and expensive journey from NASA to the Pentagon's research and development arm and then to the secretive Air Force Rapid Capabilities Office. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent on the X-37 program, but the current total hasn't been released.

While the massive space shuttles have been likened to cargo-hauling trucks, the X-37B is more like a sports car, with the equivalent trunk capacity.

Built by Boeing Co.'s Phantom Works, the 11,000-pound craft is 9 1/2 feet tall and just over 29 feet long, with a wingspan of less than 15 feet. It has two angled tail fins rather than a single vertical stabilizer.


Atlas V rocket carries X-37B into orbit

Its not really a mystery, its to take out satellite of an enemy and once that happens the Chinese DF 21 is useless, it will also be used to remove any space based resources of an enemy. More X37s are being built right now.

 

[gpit]

....

P.S. Chinese may not like the fact that carriers can go through the South China sea, but laws of the sea going back hundreds of years guarantee free passage for ships. Territorial waters only extend 12 nautical miles beyond a coastline, and if modern fighter jets happen to go beyond that range and Chinese feel threatened by mere presence of a carrier, well that's unfortunate.

Laws of whatever don't prevent Soviet from installing nuclear weapons in Cuba - an independent sovereign country. Cuban Missile Crisis: Summary

The same answer applies to those who either forget using their brain or forget history.... perhaps more unfotunately both:

what is this core interest..!! i do not think conveerting something into a core interest is a solution, because i think a word is not sufficient to make other country forget about its own interest there.

can u just tell me what all China says are its core interests and the dates when each of those were declared as core interests... if anyone can.

 

[Iceberg]

I am the punishment of God. If you had not committed great Sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon You...
GENGHIS KHAN

 

[gambit]

So you are saying that by attacking an Ameican carrier, US will try to nuke China? Which would result in massive nuke retaliation in return?
Think with your head next time, 1 carrier=destruction of whole America? I don't think so

No...He is saying that an aircraft carrier is such a valuable asset that China should be warned that killing several thousand Americans will bring disproportionate response, not nuclear, but that response will be overwhelming.

 

[gambit]

One possibility I can think of is the payload of the missile is consisted of cluster of munitions of self-guided Durandal type bombs. The purpose is to disable the aircraft launching and landing ability of aircraft carrier rather than sinking it. As soon as the runway of an aircraft carrier has been damaged beyond repair than the game is over.

That is the problem. You do not know the robustness of an American aircraft carrier because China has no experience with building, wielding and repairing one.

Here is a peacetime example...

Fire On The Flightdeck

If that was war time the Enterprise would not have returned to port but would have make repairs at sea and proceed to prosecute the war. Against a Durandal-type weapon, the USAF have these...

Prime BEEF

Prime RIBS

Those teams are trained in rapid runway repair. The USN have the same.

 

[gambit]

This is coming from a man who can't use the term economy of scale properly and thinks quantum mechanics has no practical application.

I'll take your analysis with a grain of salt thanks.

Then let me add some spice to that salt.

First...What the hell is this 'aircraft carrier killer' nonsense? Why 'aircraft carrier'? The goal should be anti-ship ballistic missile.

Now...If the DF-21 is truly capable of targeting only a physically large target like an aircraft carrier, then it does not say much for China's sensor technology. Side by side, an aircraft carrier would be virtually indistinguishable from a crude oil tanker. That mean a spread of decoy oil tankers would be enough to give the descending warhead confusion on which is the true target.

Next...Much have been said about layered sensors that could be used to detect and track a US aircraft carrier fleet. The reality is that for every layer of this defense system, the US already have a combat proven weapon against each layer.

For example...

Over-the-horizon (OTH) radars that are supposed to be able to detect surface targets are usually as large as illustrated above. A flight of sub launched cruise missiles can either destroy or degrade their efficiency to create large radar gaps. Scratch one sensor layer.

 

[Thomas]

The DF-21 Missile is actually a dangerous missile in the fact that it is a medium range missile with multiple warheads. In the heat of battle it could be mistaken for a nuke launch. No different then Obama resurrecting a plan that was shelved by Bush. To use Trident missiles with conventional warheads.

As far as actual DF-21 effectiveness. A carrier battle group is more then capable of defending itself against ballistic threats. I suggest you read up more on the capabilities the Aegis defense system and the Standard missile 2 and 3.

 

[TorontoNoctis]

Laws of whatever don't prevent Soviet from installing nuclear weapons in Cuba - an independent sovereign country. Cuban Missile Crisis: Summary

The same answer applies to those who either forget using their brain or forget history.... perhaps more unfotunately both:

Except a carrier is USA territory and flagged and owned by the USA.

Besides, even if I accepted your reasoning, the US has had a long and legitimate interest in Taiwan going back before the PRC even existed. There was never any peace treaty signed between ROC and PRC, so they are in a de facto state of war. And in a war you need powerful allies. And the PRC can bring up all the history about there being one China they want -- it doesn't change the fact that even in civil wars, you need external allies. If the Taiwanese tell the Americans to piss off then you would have a point. The Government of Taiwan isn't a puppet government either.

 

[Ras]

Then let me add some spice to that salt.

First...What the hell is this 'aircraft carrier killer' nonsense? Why 'aircraft carrier'? The goal should be anti-ship ballistic missile.

Now...If the DF-21 is truly capable of targeting only a physically large target like an aircraft carrier, then it does not say much for China's sensor technology. Side by side, an aircraft carrier would be virtually indistinguishable from a crude oil tanker. That mean a spread of decoy oil tankers would be enough to give the descending warhead confusion on which is the true target.

Next...Much have been said about layered sensors that could be used to detect and track a US aircraft carrier fleet. The reality is that for every layer of this defense system, the US already have a combat proven weapon against each layer.

For example...

Over-the-horizon (OTH) radars that are supposed to be able to detect surface targets are usually as large as illustrated above. A flight of sub launched cruise missiles can either destroy or degrade their efficiency to create large radar gaps. Scratch one sensor layer.

Won't the development of Laser ABM systems(currently at advanced testing) make any missile obsolete?...Lasers cannot be dodged.Once locked the missile is history.

 

[prototype]

americans creating so much hype of a not tested weapon.

Well all I can say is, RIP
INS Vikramaditya
INS Viraat

The Indian ocean will miss you!

well I can only respond by

 

[Chinaownseverything]

Won't the development of Laser ABM systems(currently at advanced testing) make any missile obsolete?...Lasers cannot be dodged.Once locked the missile is history.

A ballistic missile goes through atmospheric reentry

I doubt that a laser would be able to burn through something capable of surviving reentry with no damage.

 

[Ras]

A ballistic missile goes through atmospheric reentry

I doubt that a laser would be able to burn through something capable of surviving reentry with no damage.

You would be wrong

Boeing YAL-1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[gambit]

Won't the development of Laser ABM systems(currently at advanced testing) make any missile obsolete?...Lasers cannot be dodged.Once locked the missile is history.

To say 'any' is to assume that future missiles will not progress and we should not be so presumptuous. But for now we can safely assume that some type of concentrated energy weapon will render current ballistic warhead ineffective. The problem here is that we currently do not know how to control 'beam spread' over distance. The wider the beam, the less power available on the surface of the target to create any kind of damage.

Glossary of Laser Basics

Beam Divergence
Angle of beam spread, measured in (milli)radians. Can be approximated for small angle by the ratio of the beam diameter to the distance from the laser aperture.

So to do serious damage, at least on the surface to create aerodynamic instability which would send the warhead tumbling away from its intended ground target, we would have to create huge and powerful lasers because of beam divergence. The US will be the first to have a ground based energy weapon ballistic missile defense. I have no doubt about that.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

You would be wrong

Boeing YAL-1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes this laser has managed to destroy ballistic missiles, but ONLY IN THE BOOSTING PHASE

After the boosting phase the ICBM moves at MACH 10

Anti-ship ballistic missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) is a quasiballistic missile, of medium or intermediate range, designed to hit a ship at sea. Currently, there are no ship-board defense mechanisms that can counter an ASBM.[1] A single hit from an ASBM has the potential to cripple or outright destroy a supercarrier.


Even the US naval institute admits that they cannot stop the Dong Feng 21
Report: Chinese Develop Special "Kill Weapon" to Destroy U.S. Aircraft Carriers | U.S. Naval Institute

While the ASBM has been a topic of discussion within national defense circles for quite some time, the fact that information is now coming from Chinese sources indicates that the weapon system is operational. The Chinese rarely mention weapons projects unless they are well beyond the test stages.

If operational as is believed, the system marks the first time a ballistic missile has been successfully developed to attack vessels at sea. Ships currently have no defense against a ballistic missile attack.

Along with the Chinese naval build-up, U.S. Navy officials appear to view the development of the anti-ship ballistic missile as a tangible threat.



China can also fire multiple of these, as they are dirt cheap compared to the cost of a carrier

 

[gambit]

Yes this laser has managed to destroy ballistic missiles, but ONLY IN THE BOOSTING PHASE

After the boosting phase the ICBM moves at MACH 10

Anti-ship ballistic missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) is a quasiballistic missile, of medium or intermediate range, designed to hit a ship at sea. Currently, there are no ship-board defense mechanisms that can counter an ASBM.[1] A single hit from an ASBM has the potential to cripple or outright destroy a supercarrier.


Even the US naval institute admits that they cannot stop the Dong Feng 21
Report: Chinese Develop Special "Kill Weapon" to Destroy U.S. Aircraft Carriers | U.S. Naval Institute

While the ASBM has been a topic of discussion within national defense circles for quite some time, the fact that information is now coming from Chinese sources indicates that the weapon system is operational. The Chinese rarely mention weapons projects unless they are well beyond the test stages.

If operational as is believed, the system marks the first time a ballistic missile has been successfully developed to attack vessels at sea. Ships currently have no defense against a ballistic missile attack.

Along with the Chinese naval build-up, U.S. Navy officials appear to view the development of the anti-ship ballistic missile as a tangible threat.



China can also fire multiple of these, as they are dirt cheap compared to the cost of a carrier

This is exactly what I mean before...That after a few weeks when previous DF-21 threads have been challenged and buried, someone will dredge up old news as if it is shocking news all over again.