Chinese jets "unsafely" intercept U.S. military plane over South China Sea

[gambit]

If memory serves (did history long, long time ago) this Cuba thing was counterpoint to US deployment of nuclear weapons in Turkey. Post Cuba incident US quitely reciprocated Soviet dismantling of the missiles with removal of nukes from Anatolia. Everybody came out happy and the world was saved.

There are two ways either the US or the Soviet could have responded.

When Turkey chose to host US nuclear weapons, the Soviet Union could have responded by doing something similar to a sea blockade. Basically, punish Turkey. Whether that was technically feasible or not -- is debatable. But since the Soviet Union responded by having Cuba hosts Soviet nuclear weapons, maybe Kruschchev did not expect the US to be so harsh towards Cuba ?

On the technical front, a sea blockade is easier to execute than the land version for the simple reason that a navy can encircle an island without violating anyone else's territorial sovereignty. In order to execute a land blockade, the targeted land area must be secured somehow, either with the alliance of all neighbors or the land army must be powerful enough to violate borders and hold areas of land necessary for encirclement.

The Soviet military must have known this. That leave tactical miscalculation that ended with Cuba being humiliated.

Many have argued that such a thing does not exist. For there to be law you have to have some prerequisites. One of them is sanction. Without sanction you can't enforce law. Without enforcement your left just with sermons.

You can make anything a 'law'. But in order for a law to be effective, like you said about enforcement, there must be sufficient physical prowess to back up said enforcement. After all, what is enforcement without the capability to punish violator(s) of said law ? Sanctions are good if you can spare the time but more importantly, you must have a material relationship with your target in order for the sanction program to be sufficiently threatening.

For example, prior to WW II, the US and Imperial Japan had a trade relationship of oil and scrap metal that were vital to Japan's economic growth, which fueled her military ventures in mainland China. The US sanction program of those two items compelled Japan to war against US.

The US and Cuba had no such worthwhile material relationship. It looks like you have done basic research on what is a 'sanction' program.

Agreed. Disagree with your spelling though. It is "through". Just saying. Bad schooling there I suspect.

You suspect wrong. The word 'thru' is North American simplified version of 'through'. Bad schooling...

A bit harsh I think. I am sort of partial to socialism (Fabianism) which is very distant relative of communism. Note. I am not a communist. I know what you Yanks think of communists - worse than devil himself.

Almost like the Devil. Socialism is communism with a nicer rhetorical coating designed to fool the gullible.

I don't like discrimination in all it's forms. Gender, sexual persuation, religion, ethnicity, disability, blah, blah but beards. Now that is altogether another matter. My ideal world would be me rich as hell, a harem on the side, a Porsche Panarama and all bearded guy's hanging from street lamps.

So, no I would not want bearded guy with finger on the trigger unless he is Santa Claus himself.

The bearded guy I was talking about was Fidel Castro. Not anyone else.

Ps. And if you don't mind me asking are you ex military? If so which branch? Thanks in advance.

USAF. F-111 (RAF Upper Heyford) and F-16 (MacDill AFB).

 

[xunzi]

It would have been a surprise if someone else had complained
China has in past behaved in an unprofessional way (Hainan incident).

Whether it is true or not, both the US and China knows.
I doubt You have any first hand knowledge.

Do You agree that a pilot that flies 50 feet from another plane on International Waters should be punished?

Our position and evidence suggest our pilot act according to international law and within safety reason. Like I said, 50ft accusation comes from the US mouth. Next time, we are going to video tape it like we caught Japan doing illegal interception.

Given the US's history of aggression and intimidation, I wouldn't trust them even with a gun in my hand.

Being in international air/sea space DOES NOT qualify as 'intrusion'. So stress THAT fact.

There is a reason why you continue to spy on our Hainan's EEZ. In fact, threaten the safety of the personnel working there can be consider an intrusion. There is many form of intrusion. This is one of it as this is military aircraft so can't be consider civilian aifrcraft flying in international airspace.

 

[gambit]

There is a reason why you continue to spy on our Hainan's EEZ. In fact, threaten the safety of the personnel working there can be consider an intrusion. There is many form of intrusion. This is one of it as this is military aircraft so can't be consider civilian aifrcraft flying in international airspace.

More like a made up 'fact'.

As far as international norms and understanding goes, which includes your China, the nature of the vessel is irrelevant as long as the vessel is in international air/sea space. It is irrelevant in regards to any attempt by anyone to force said vessel to deviate from its course.

Every country, including your China, agreed to this understanding. The vessel, military or civilian, does not threaten anyone or anything by being passive and being in international air/sea space. Do not even attempt to deceive this forum by using the words 'in fact' in trying to pretend you know what you are talking about. The crap you said will be believed by ignorant Chinese in Chinese forums, but not here.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

USAF. F-111 (RAF Upper Heyford) and F-16 (MacDill AFB).

So you stole my dream. Then you actually lived it as well. F-16s are stuff of Pakistani dreams. The galls of you. Expect a lawsuit. And I spent time at Buckingham University as student not too far from Upper Heyford back in early 1990s.

The word 'thru' is North American simplified version of 'through'

I know. Tongue in cheek. You guy's have been distorting the English language ever since you waded ashore from the Mayflower.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Our position and evidence suggest our pilot act according to international law and within safety reason. Like I said, 50ft accusation comes from the US mouth. Next time, we are going to video tape it like we caught Japan doing illegal interception.

Given the US's history of aggression and intimidation, I wouldn't trust them even with a gun in my hand.


There is a reason why you continue to spy on our Hainan's EEZ. In fact, threaten the safety of the personnel working there can be consider an intrusion. There is many form of intrusion. This is one of it as this is military aircraft so can't be consider civilian aifrcraft flying in international airspace.

You refuse to answer the question what should happen to a pilot which flies 50 ft from another aircraft.
I think that is a clear indication, that You have no evidence of the Chinese aircrafts location.

 

[xunzi]

You refuse to answer the question what should happen to a pilot which flies 50 ft from another aircraft.
I think that is a clear indication, that You have no evidence of the Chinese aircrafts location.

You don't seem to understand what I'm trying to say. If you believe in the big mouth of your Uncle Sam, then so be it. Not everybody trust and believe in the US's propaganda like you do. It's that simple.

 

[Titikaka]

You don't seem to understand what I'm trying to say. If you believe in the big mouth of your Uncle Sam, then so be it. Not everybody trust and believe in the US's propaganda like you do. It's that simple.

How about Chinese's propaganda?

 

[rott]

How about Chinese's propaganda?

With a name like that, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Jlaw]

With a name like that, I wouldn't be surprised.

How about Chinese's propaganda?

Is this BBQ77 reincarnated?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

You don't seem to understand what I'm trying to say. If you believe in the big mouth of your Uncle Sam, then so be it. Not everybody trust and believe in the US's propaganda like you do. It's that simple.

And why should anyone believe You.
You have provided nothing, except thin air.
I give You a chance, by moving to a hypotetical situation, which You choose to ignore.
You have nothing to contribute to a his discussion.

 

[jhungary]

So who appointed you world police for 70 countries you invaded/meddled in since your foundation? Funny how you talk about "Chinese aggression" coming from a habitual aggressor like US. Other than Vietnam, Philippines and Japan, we get along just fine with everyone else. We really don't care what your old colonial lapdogs in Asia ask of you.

Please do name all 70 countries you said the US invaded since the foundation? Cause at most I can only counted 15 (Mexico, Libya, Canada, Grenada, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany, Japan, Haiti, Panama, Hungary, Kosovo, Laos, North Korea) And almost half of those are under UN Banner (North Korea, Germany, Japan, Kosovo, Iraq (Gulf War), Afghanistan and Somalia), that's 15 countries with just under 242 years of US

On the other hand, China have invaded at least 7 countries in just 64 years (Vietnam, Burma, Japan, Russia, South Congo, India and South Korea)..........

That's 0.06 country per year with the US, and 0.1 country per year with China.......

Under US law, for any civilian aircraft intending to enter U.S. airspace, they are required to register their flight plan with FAA. However, any aircraft flying in these zones without authorization may be identified as a threat and treated as an enemy aircraft, potentially leading to interception by fighter aircraft.

Actually, you don't have to register flight plan with FAA (By the way, not FAA too, it ICAO, FAA only act as an agent), as long as you kept in touch with ATC all the time..

And no, any unidentified aircraft are call bogey, you cannot label an unidentified aircraft "bandit" unless he is "identified" as enemy aircraft. Just because you are not VID or PID, that does not make you an enemy.

@gambit would know more on this.

 

[Penguin]

Please do name all 70 countries you said the US invaded since the foundation? Cause at most I can only counted 15 (Mexico, Libya, Canada, Grenada, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany, Japan, Haiti, Panama, Hungary, Kosovo, Laos, North Korea) And almost half of those are under UN Banner (North Korea, Germany, Japan, Kosovo, Iraq (Gulf War), Afghanistan and Somalia), that's 15 countries with just under 242 years of US

On the other hand, China have invaded at least 7 countries in just 64 years (Vietnam, Burma, Japan, Russia, South Congo, India and South Korea)..........

That's 0.06 country per year with the US, and 0.1 country per year with China.......

The US invaded Hungary? Like, when?
You missed Cambodia?

 

[Zsari]

The US invaded Hungary? Like, when?
You missed Cambodia?

Hungary was one of the Axis power. Missed whole lot more, China and Russia among them.

 

[jhungary]

The US invaded Hungary? Like, when?
You missed Cambodia?

I did not count Cambodia because it was a US-friendly country back in 1970 when the Cambodia Campaign started. my definition of invasion is an invasion of a hostile or non-cooperative country, I don't think you can call invasion of Cambadia an invasion when the Royal Cambodian Troop were actually fighting alongside the US and ARVN troop.

Otherwise I would have to include France, Belgium and Netherland in that list of US invasion too

Hungary was one of the Axis power. Missed whole lot more, China and Russia among them.

Again, how many more did I missed?

Russia - Assuming you are about US intervention of Russian Civil War, how does that an invasion when the Pro-Tsar government is still in charge of Russia, in that case, the communist Bolshevik is the actual invader....the US and its allied is to defend the then rightful ruler of Russia, which is the Tsar. Which mean what the US did is the opposite of Invasion.

China - Assuming you are talking about the 1900 Boxer Rebellion. It is an relief operation with the US merchant already in China at that point, the US cannot invade a country that they already have present there. It's like saying the UK invaded Hong Kong during WW2 when the Japanese was themselves invading Hong Kong.

But hey, even if I do count Russia and China, that's 2, how many more did I missed? You still need 53 more name to get to the 70 countries some member mentioned, And I guess if you know I missed something, then you must know which country did I miss eh?

 

[Zsari]

Again, how many more did I missed?

Russia - Assuming you are about US intervention of Russian Civil War, how does that an invasion when the Pro-Tsar government is still in charge of Russia, in that case, the communist Bolshevik is the actual invader....the US and its allied is to defend the then rightful ruler of Russia, which is the Tsar. Which mean what the US did is the opposite of Invasion.

China - Assuming you are talking about the 1900 Boxer Rebellion. It is an relief operation with the US merchant already in China at that point, the US cannot invade a country that they already have present there. It's like saying the UK invaded Hong Kong during WW2 when the Japanese was themselves invading Hong Kong.

But hey, even if I do count Russia and China, that's 2, how many more did I missed? You still need 53 more name to get to the 70 countries some member mentioned, And I guess if you know I missed something, then you must know which country did I miss eh?

Bolsheviks aren't foreign to Russia to be called an invader. Invasion is an incursion of foreign force. What else did you miss? Let's see, do all those native indian nations count? How about Nicaragua, Argentina, Chile, Cuba, Panama, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, El Salvador and I'm still only going through the ones in America. You even missed Vietnam, and there are many more. But if I list them all, I'll be accused of derailing the thread.