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Chinese jets "unsafely" intercept U.S. military plane over South China Sea

It appears you were still trying to create misdirection to avert others' eyes from your name calling and trolling act. Since the Mods already made their verdict in other thread, and also to be respectful to them and the forum rules, I don't wish to go any further arguing with you. I will not quote or reply to you any more and I wish you would do the same. It is not your apposing views that piss me, it is because of the fact that normally I don't want to engage talks with someone who don't introduce themselves at causal encounters or hide name plates in conference. I say it for nothing else, but stating my preference
There was neither namecalling nor trolling. If you think there was, report the specific post to management and let them sort it out. You are just attempting to create a spectacle (note you refer to Mod judgement but nonetheless post yet another reply...). Never have I hidden nationality or location from anyone (I was here well before any flag's came into practice and by the content of my posts make no secret whatsoever about my nationality or location, as forum management is well aware). I don't recall there being a rule that requires posters to introduce themselves when they post in a thread.
 
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I have been paying attention to the news, and so far I have seen this happening.
The issue has always been waters where China has made claims which are not recognized
by anyone else, and without backing of International Law.
Why don't You post any independent link, if You disagree.

The incident we are discussing happened over International Waters,



So yet another unprofessional maverick.
Who is surprised?


An EEZ is by definition OUTSIDE any territorial waters, so anybody can fly there.
That is part of International Law, and the agreement does not even touch the subject - no need.
The agreement is mainly regarding ships, but a clause says that aircraft should keep a safe distance.
50 feet is not considered a safe distance by professional pilots.
It something that is done by teams like the Red Arrows etc, but only after extensive training.

You can close the two first.

The remaining item is whether the Chinese pilot actually flew within 50 feet.
That is claimed by the U.S., so the correct behaviour is for the Chinese Pilot
to be court martialed by the Chinese Government, calling in U.S, Air Force
and PLAAF to provide their evidence.
This will determine whether the Chinese Pilot stepped out of line or not.
You need to ask the international community if it is acceptable to use military aircraft to spy on another country. It is one of the most heated debate in UN and one we oppose. But of course, if UN accept, then be prepare we will put our spy aircraft to good use in foreign country eez.
 
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Buddy, nothing is safe when you're in the air especially when it has everything to do with air force of two different countries. Leave civilian out of this. Unrelated.
Find me a defence pilot who says it's very SAFE when it comes to interception of an alien craft.
This is -- to put it as kindly as possible -- a stupid argument.

It is like saying being 100 meters from the tiger is the same as being 5 meters from the tiger, plus I am going to dance in front of the tiger.

Is there a safe way of interception of another aircraft ? Yes, there is and I am speaking as a USAF veteran on two different aircrafts, F-111 and F-16. How about you ?

There are different types of interception.

In peace time, an interception requires a visual contact of the target aircraft and you do not need to come within 50ft of it. In fact, speaking from experience in aviation going back to when I was in high school, I can identify what kind of aircraft I am looking at from more than 100 ft away. In the cockpit of a Cessna 152, I do not need to be 50ft of a Boeing 747 to know: "Yeah...That is definitely a Boeing 747."

So do not talk as if you know what you are talking about.

You need to ask the international community if it is acceptable to use military aircraft to spy on another country.
It is acceptable.

It is acceptable in the sense that even though you may not like it, as long as the 'spy' is in international air/water space, you have no credible justifications to do anything to it other than to make sure it does not enter your territorial air/water space.

...then be prepare we will put our spy aircraft to good use in foreign country eez.
The EEZ is international water. As long as you stay there, things will be fine.

If some one always and continues to peek at my house from the footpath outside my fence, and after all professional requests or talks asking the offender not to do so are failed, I would definitely resort into some of the so called "unprofessional" an-eye-for-an-eye act to the offender to teach him a lesson of how to respect others.
The last time China lost a pilot. Was it a good lesson ?
 
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You need to ask the international community if it is acceptable to use military aircraft to spy on another country. It is one of the most heated debate in UN and one we oppose. But of course, if UN accept, then be prepare we will put our spy aircraft to good use in foreign country eez.

The International Community allows any military aircraft to fly over International waters.
Until there is a convention which is signed both by the U.S. and China, that say otherwise,
You just have to live with it, or violate International Law.

The U.S. and other Western countries are aware of this, so feel free to join the Russians.

If some one always and continues to peek at my house from the footpath outside my fence, and after all professional requests or talks asking the offender not to do so are failed, I would definitely resort into some of the so called "unprofessional" an-eye-for-an-eye act to the offender to teach him a lesson of how to respect others.

I am very surprised you do not know this. In Australia we call it personal space.

Under International Law, Your personal space is 12 nm.
If You try to "teach people lessons" outside Your personal space, You will end up beeing sent to a prison camp.

Sorry, too late... already in Australia...
 
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If You try to "teach people lessons" outside Your personal space, You will end up beeing sent to a prison camp
Sorry, too late, did it countless time already. Never was there but ended up at top quartile in society.
Prison Camp? You mean the place you guys want to send Julian Assange to?

The last time China lost a pilot. Was it a good lesson ?
A good lesson for how to rescue downed pilots perhaps.

Is it a bit irony here for a US pilot/mechanic (or what ever you claimed to be) to advocate for the welfare of the Chinese pilots, yet be ignorant to what are happening to your own pilots?

Care to explain the following piece for us?

Why U.S. Fighter Jets Keep Dropping Out of the Sky
Risky Maneuvers
06.03.16 11:45 AM ET
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/27/why-u-s-fighter-jets-keep-colliding-in-midair.html

Thursday’s startling twin crashes of aerobatic military jets—leaving one pilot dead—are just the latest in a series of accidents.
You’re not wrong if you feel like U.S. military fighter jets are suddenly dropping out of the sky. But it’s not a new problem. Air-combat training—not to mention air show-style aerobatics—is risky stuff.

In a startling coincidence on June 2, both of the military’s aerobatic teams—the Air Force’s Thunderbirds, flying red, white, and blue F-16s; and the Navy’s Blue Angels, with their cobalt-colored F/A-18s—lost an airplane to a crash. The Thunderbirds’ F-16 crashed in a field after a flyover at the U.S. Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, where President Obama had just delivered the graduating class’s commencement address. The pilot safely ejected.

The Blue Angels’ F/A-18 slammed into the ground during a training flight over Smyrna, Tennessee. The pilot reportedly died. The Blue Angels last lost a pilot in a 2007 crash. The Thunderbirds’ last crash, which was nonfatal, was in 2003.


Far more frequent are collisions between combat jets during training for close-range dogfights.

In just the last 10 years, air-to-air collisions during training have destroyed or badly damaged no fewer than 12 Navy and Air Force fighters and killed at least two pilots.

The four aircrew of two U.S. Navy F/A-18F Super Hornets that collided in the air May 26, 25 miles east of Oregon Inlet, North Carolina, were lucky. They ejected before their damaged planes plummeted into the waves.

Fishermen aboard the trawler Tammy witnessed the collision and promptly pulled two of the Navy fliers from the sea. A Coast Guard helicopter soon fished the other two airmen out of the water. The Coast Guard sped all four aircrew to Norfolk Sentara General hospital in Virginia, where the fighters are based.

The Navy is investigating the accident, and it could be months before we learn the official cause. In any event, it’s safe to say aerial crashes are an all-but-inevitable side effect of high-intensity air-warfare training.

Even in this age of stealth technology, powerful radars, and far-flying precision-guided missiles, American fighter pilots still practice close-in dogfights—which the two jets were apparently engaged in when they struck each other May 26—turning and accelerating their jets to aim missiles and guns at opponent aircraft.

Air combat is dangerous. Training for air combat is pretty risky, too, as pilots scramble to control aircraft flying hundreds of miles per hour while managing their planes’ sensors and weapons, and also keeping track of other nearby aircraft that are flying just as fast while their own pilots juggle all the same demanding tasks.

“As pilots, we are all trained to know that attention to detail is critical,” Lt. Katrina Nietsch, a Navy pilot, wrote in a recent edition of the sailing branch’s official aviation safety magazine. “However, balancing the details with the big picture is often where situational awareness can be lost.”

This loss of situational awareness apparently led to a midair collision between two Air Force F-16 fighters flying off the coast of Maryland in August 2013. The pilots of the two fighter were practicing close-range interception—one pilot chasing behind the other—when, according to the official investigation, the pilot in the rear position misjudged his speed.

His F-16 slammed into the lead plane from behind, wrecking the lead fighter and forcing the pilot to eject. The at-fault pilot managed to land his own damaged fighter. Air Force investigators blamed the incident on the first flier’s “channelized attention” and “task misprioritization.”

It doesn’t help that pilots’ vision outside their cockpits can be...less than perfect. “The flight environment they must scan includes an entire 180-degree hemisphere—from 90 degrees out to the sides, above and below—to directly ahead,” James Lockridge, a pilot with more than 50 years of flying experience, wrote in Aviation Safety magazine several years ago. “But there are blind areas beneath the cabin floor, above its ceiling and behind the wings.”

Lockridge was describing civilian aircraft. But military aircraft suffer the same limitations—and the limitations matter all the more when those aircraft are locked in a fast-turning mock dogfight.

This problem is actually getting worse for the American combat pilots. The new F-35 stealth fighter, which is slowly replacing almost all other frontline jets in the U.S. arsenal, suffers from a particularly cramped cockpit that affords a comparatively poor view of the outside world—especially when a pilot is wearing the high-tech new helmet that the military is buying specially for F-35 pilots.

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In a mock dogfight in early 2015, an F-35 test pilot discovered that he was having trouble seeing the “enemy” plane during tight turns. “The helmet was too large for the space inside the canopy to adequately see behind the aircraft,” the pilot reported.

Not only does limited visibility make it harder for an F-35 pilot to see and shoot down his opponent, there’s an obvious safety risk, as well. As a pilot, you can’t prevent a collision with a plane you can’t see.

But air combat training is dangerous even when your plane’s own design isn’t actively impeding your vision. The Air Force’s F-15 boasts a large, bubble-shaped canopy that, by warplane standards, affords an excellent view of the outside world. But that didn’t prevent two F-15 pilots from colliding during a simulated dogfight over the Gulf of Mexico in February 2008.

Both aircraft crashed. One pilot died. The Air Force officially attributed the incident to “pilot error” but did cut the fliers some slack. The two pilots had suffered a “loss...of flight proficiency” that, investigators concluded, wasn’t their fault.

In November 2007, an F-15 had disintegrated in the air over Missouri owing to a badly manufactured part. The Air Force grounded all of its F-15s for several months so that it could inspect the planes for similar, flawed components. When the F-15s resumed flying in early 2008, their pilots’ skills had eroded—so much so that the two fliers tangling over the Gulf of Mexico “failed to anticipate their impending high-aspect mid-air collision,” according to the Air Force.

That loss of flying proficiency is a constant threat to military aircrew. The training process for high-end air combat is akin to a high-wire act. Military pilots spend a year or more developing the basic flying skills they need even to begin practicing the more advanced combat tactics, including tight-turning dogfights. Once they achieve aerial proficiency, they have to maintain it—by constantly practicing the advanced techniques.

Any letup in training can erode an aviator’s skills and make intensive mock combat prohibitively dangerous until the flier can regain lost proficiency, through painstaking repetition of more basic tasks. Failure to maintain dogfighting skills can cause accidents in the air.

It’s not clear that a loss of proficiency played any role in the Super Hornet collision of May 26. But lawmakers and senior Pentagon officials have been warning for years now that flattening Pentagon budgets are making safely training aviators harder. And they claim that aircraft accident rates have spiked as a result.

The rate of serious accidents for Army helicopters rose from 1.52 per 100,000 flight hours in 2014 to 1.99 in 2016, Rep. Mac Thornberry, a Texas Republican and chair of the House Armed Services Committee, said in March. Thornberry claimed that the crash rate for Marine Corps aircraft rose from a 10-year average of 2.15 per 100,000 flying hours to 3.96 in 2016.

Gen. Robert Neller, the Marine Corps’ top officer, said his squadrons “don’t have enough airplanes to meet the training requirements for the entire force.” Out of a total inventory of 276 increasingly aged F/A-18s, in early 2016 just 17 of the planes were in good repair and available for advanced flight training.

“The combination of war fighters who aren’t trained and equipment that doesn’t work is a perfect storm,” an aide to the House committee told Defense News, a trade publication. That storm may have contributed to the recent midair collision—or maybe not.

But one thing is for sure. Air-combat practice is risky enough even when pilots are adequately trained and their planes are in working order.
 
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Sorry, too late, did it countless time already. Never was there but ended up at top quartile in society.
Prison Camp? You mean the place you guys want to send Julian Assange to?
No, I mean Australia, but then again, You are already there.
As for Assange, We want him for questioning regarding his alledged rape.
If You want to discuss that, start a new thread.
 
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A good lesson for how to rescue downed pilots perhaps.
Yeah...Is that how the PLAAF recruit for pilots ? That they can serve as corpses for retrieval training ? :lol:

Is it a bit irony here for a US pilot/mechanic (or what ever you claimed to be) to advocate for the welfare of the Chinese pilots, yet be ignorant to what are happening to your own pilots?

Care to explain the following piece for us?
There is no 'irony' here. Do you even know the meaning of the word ? I am not 'advocating' for the welfare of any Chinese pilot. I was merely pointing out the stupidity of the PLAAF for making their pilots do stupid shit in intercepting US aircrafts in international airspace.

What you posted about airshow pilots are just as stupid as what your fellow Chinese did.

In an airshow, you are SUPPOSED to do dangerous maneuvers, such as flying very close to your wingmen. It is called 'precision formation' flying.

But is there such a need in intercepting a foreign aircraft in international airspace ? No, there is not.

You guys have been watching too many bad Chinese military movies. In aviation, interception does not mean you fly fast, perform rapid maneuvers, and flashes your weapons. Interception simply mean you make sure the foreign, possibly unidentified, and possibly hostile aircraft from entering your territorial airspace. You make sure he is aware of your presence. Since he is already flying, that means he is a trained and experience airman like you are, and that mean he can ID you just as good as you can ID him. That mean there is no need to fly within 50 ft of him. You are an agent of your country and your presence mean -- to him -- that your country know s he is there. No need to be any closer than necessary for both of you to ID each other. What China did back in the Hainan Incident and this time is simply unsafe and unprofessional.
 
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I have been paying attention to the news, and so far I have seen this happening.
The issue has always been waters where China has made claims which are not recognized
by anyone else, and without backing of International Law.

Does that mean China can send its vessels to sail into the Machias Seal Island where US and Canada has dispute over? US is a third party to the dispute and regardless whether or not it recognize the Chinese claim which according to the US it does not dispute any party's claim, military intrusion is an act of hostility. And you expect China to abide by a non-binding memorandum after that?
 
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It is acceptable.

It is acceptable in the sense that even though you may not like it, as long as the 'spy' is in international air/water space, you have no credible justifications to do anything to it other than to make sure it does not enter your territorial air/water space.


The EEZ is international water. As long as you stay there, things will be fine.
Like I said, we need consensus on international agreement on this because we have been constantly getting harassed by your allies when we fly in international water or your so called eez.

The International Community allows any military aircraft to fly over International waters.
Until there is a convention which is signed both by the U.S. and China, that say otherwise,
You just have to live with it, or violate International Law.

The U.S. and other Western countries are aware of this, so feel free to join the Russians.
Then you need to teach your allies about that first because we are getting harassment every time our aircrafts flew in international airspace.
 
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Yeah...Is that how the PLAAF recruit for pilots ? That they can serve as corpses for retrieval training ?
Yeah, since you guys are most highly trained and experienced in the world as you said before, China does need to learn from you guys about how to rescue downed pilots from sea in those most recent rescue missions of yours.

Rescue mission like these:

26 May2016,
Two US Navy F-18s crash in the Atlantic off North Carolina’s Outer Banks,
US Coast Guard says fishing boat named "Jamie" pick up 4 airmen from the water following jet crash

21 Oct2015, Pilot killed as US F/A-18 jet crashes near Suffolk RAF base

15 Jan 2016, Two Marine CH-53 Sea Stallions Helicopters Involved in Collision in Hawaii, 12 are missing

2 Dec 2015,Two pilots flying an AH-64D Apache from Fort Campbell were killed when the helicopter crashed

12 Mar 2015, one Black Hawk helicopter crashed into waters off the Florida Panhandle, 11 presumed dead

Now I start to see some reasoning behind your anxiety. By the way were those corpses of unfortunate US pilots and marines were retrieved? Although it all happened just within 2 years, we kinda forget. But I presume you remember and follow it as a veteran.
No, I mean Australia, but then again, You are already there.
No, I mean I did many times in the past in Australia making people uncomfortable when they invaded into my "Comfort Zone", and never been sent to the prison camp of yours.
 
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Yeah, since you guys are most highly trained and experienced in the world as you said before, China does need to learn from you guys about how to rescue downed pilots from sea in those most recent rescue missions of yours.
The US Navy will give plenty of practice in that. We may even help you -- after we shoot down a few Chinese fighters. :enjoy:
 
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The US Navy will give plenty of practice in that. We may even help you -- after we shoot down a few Chinese fighters. :enjoy:
Good Lets wait and see who is going to perish next time. some talk the talk, some walk the walk:rofl:

What China did back in the Hainan Incident and this time is simply unsafe and unprofessional.
What a hypocrite. Now you are telling us "after we shoot down a few Chinese fighters" after your constant "unsafe and unprofessional" talking. For this I don't think you are a real American
 
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Good Lets wait and see who is going to perish next time. some talk the talk, some walk the walk:rofl:
The US walked the combat talk many times over. Your PLA is still learning the talk. More like baby talk.
 
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The US walked the combat talk many times over. Your PLA is still learning the talk. More like baby talk.
PLA is not my PLA for I am not pretending to be representing it.
You also need to stop pretending to represent the US since most of us here don't even think you are an American.
Most real Americans are smart enough not to walk into the trap set by you guys to fight wars for you. That is why till today no US planes "shoot down a few Chinese fighters" like you so wet-dreamed in your above post. Save your baby talk to elsewhere.
 
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