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" Chinese Flankers are a unique family of aircraft ! " - reconfirmed

And 85 IQ Indians know more about military than Carlo Koop right?
Indians couldn't make their own bullets yet think they know about military.

Stop embarrassing yourselves, you got burnt in 1962 yet you think you are the world authority about military.
Come and talk when you win a war.

you are funny!

Amongst them Egypt and Iran not to mention Bangladesh and Pakistan. All these countries also have potent Western and Russian aircraft in their inventory. Earlier Pakistan rejected the MIG-21 when offered by Soviet Union.
For the second part, i will reply your question with a question, India in the past has bought both from Russia and Western sources, it's currently concluding a $10 Billion MMCA deal.....why then for the last two decades, it's been pursuing the much delayed LCA programme. ?? !!

USSR offered Mig 21 to PAF?
F7PG-upgraded mig 21 from china entered PAF on late 80's? a sixties aircraft in 80's? let me think of which aircraft did India field in 80's Mirage? m29?
 
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Is is worth explaining anything? Big mouth is big mouth, You assert that you copy Russian Plane, Whatever do you talk, they will not stop mocking you, they don't need any truth, for them, they just want to make fun of it!!
For us chinese, J11, J15, J16 all learn many from russian plane, we can't forget it, Russia help us much, now, If we resolve the engine problem, we will fully self-independent on our fighter!! let they be jealous of us, they just know make the plan, brag so-called future weapon and system early!! Many time, when I read such kind of thread, I smile. I don't know why, I am happy for these, stupid enemy is better than smart enemy, but don't pay much attention on it, focus on USA! only from best, you can learn much!
 
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Is is worth explaining anything? Big mouth is big mouth, You assert that you copy Russian Plane, Whatever do you talk, they will not stop mocking you, they don't need any truth, for them, they just want to make fun of it!!
For us chinese, J11, J15, J16 all learn many from russian plane, we can't forget it, Russia help us much, now, If we resolve the engine problem, we will fully self-independent on our fighter!! let they be jealous of us, they just know make the plan, brag so-called future weapon and system early!! Many time, when I read such kind of thread, I smile. I don't know why, I am happy for these, stupid enemy is better than smart enemy, but don't pay much attention on it, focus on USA! only from best, you can learn much!

i pay attention, j11 teach you lot, we learn long way, ground up, I see same about agniV and LCA and then i smile too,good going china, yes,

ok i'm cracking up now
 
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No wonder why the best 2 regions of India scored the lowest of all 74 countries tested in PISA on all accounts: Science, Maths and Reading Comprehension. This board could offer further evidences that Indians just can't comprehend... very likely due to the mismatch between the size of head and mouth.

Kopp is absolutely correct in his judgement.

Which part of what he says that Indians with the birdslike brains can't figure out ? Let me break it down for ya :smokin: :

Kopp admitts that they are Chinese Flankers , just very different from original Flankers in so many areas that shouldn't be called a copy but should be categoried as a unique family of planes and studied on their own merits accordingly.

Even latest version of F-16s and F-15s can be called totally different planes from their corresponding 1.0 versions, since as technoliges and complexities multiplied, airframe alone can't properly seperate similar modern planes anymore that one must take into account hardware, avionics and other systems as a combined machine.




I know that India has been trying very hard to make a proper real COPY of a mig-21 on its own for the last 40 years and ongoing...

Now I am making a huge presumption here:

If India could one day succeed in taking a Mig-21's airframe and making it fly properly/competitively with ALL Indian hardware and software inside the shell designed and manufactured 100% inside India by Indians without any foreign imput, oke I know that it's like a Mission Impossible due to varies constrains such as IQ upper limite and so on, I would nonetheless be the first one to admit that it would be a different plane from Mig-21, a unique offshoot of it as Kopp would agree, instead of a copy.
 
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USSR offered Mig 21 to PAF?
As far back as 1969
F7PG-upgraded mig 21 from china entered PAF on late 80's? a sixties aircraft in 80's? let me think of which aircraft did India field in 80's Mirage? m29?
2002 to be precise, some 20 years after the F-16 was introduced into the PAF.
You may have in inducted the Mirage and MIG-29 in the 80s, but you also had your MIG-21s upgraded to Bison standard around 2000. !!
 
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As far back as 1969
2002 to be precise, some 20 years after the F-16 was introduced into the PAF.
You may have in inducted the Mirage and MIG-29 in the 80s, but you also had your MIG-21s upgraded to Bison standard around 2000. !!

Soviets offered Mig21 to you guys in 1969? - source,

if that is true, you still bought f86 sabres second hand in 71 and rejected mig 21's which eventually proved better than your starfighters?

F7's I think you got f7's in late 80's and then returned them to china as they were unsatisfactory? maybe you have better idea.

Yes, Bison were upgraded beginning 98, They performed exceedingly well in exercise with USAF
 
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The quest for India/Indians’ true mental states


When can't even make an entry level Insas 1.0 rifle working, they're "designing" future Insas 3.0...

When can't even make a Aryan V1 functioning without a total breakup, they are "progressing" on Aryan V2. Aryan V3...

When can't even make a 3-gen fighter a la Mig-21 level a success, they say that they're "succeeding" in 4 gen and 5 gen...

When can't even figure out how to make dinosaur-class Agni II indigenous and reliable, they're celebrating the "success" and “break-thru” of Agni V, multi warheads...

When can't even ready an indoor pumping shield or a covered sewage shield, they announce da missle shield is "ready"...

When can't even make single recognised software for their basic callcentres, they've rub their shoulders with "we’re world's IT supa pawa"...

When can't produce a modern radar on its own for fighterjets, they broadcast "we're on par with others on electronic warfare"...

When can't even guarantee shooting an imported rocket into sky without blowing up each time, they say "we're ahead of China...

When couldn't even climb the banana tree as early as chimps, they brag “we invented zero”…

When can’t even make 40% of its citizens literate, they boast “we make 40% of NASA”…

When can't find water for its citizens even on the doorstep, they claim "we found water on Moon"...

When can't even make it to Moon, not even 1/10 of it without a crash-landing or lost-contact, they say "we're going to Mars"....

...

What's the next move?

It got to be:

when can't even make it to a Full Retard, they thump the chest and congratulate each other with "we're already Super Retards!”
 
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The quest for India/Indians’ true mental states


When can't even make an entry level Insas 1.0 rifle working, they're "designing" future Insas 3.0...

When can't even make a Aryan V1 functioning without a total breakup, they are "progressing" on Aryan V2. Aryan V3...

When can't even make a 3-gen fighter a la Mig-21 level a success, they say that they're "succeeding" in 4 gen and 5 gen...

When can't even figure out how to make dinosaur-class Agni II indigenous and reliable, they're celebrating the "success" and “break-thru” of Agni V, multi warheads...

When can't even ready an indoor pumping shield or a covered sewage shield, they announce da missle shield is "ready"...

When can't even make single recognised software for their basic callcentres, they've rub their shoulders with "we’re world's IT supa pawa"...

When can't produce a modern radar on its own for fighterjets, they broadcast "we're on par with others on electronic warfare"...

When can't even guarantee shooting an imported rocket into sky without blowing up each time, they say "we're ahead of China...

When couldn't even climb the banana tree as early as chimps, they brag “we invented zero”…

When can’t even make 40% of its citizens literate, they boast “we make 40% of NASA”…

When can't find water for its citizens even on the doorstep, they claim "we found water on Moon"...

When can't even make it to Moon, not even 1/10 of it without a crash-landing or lost-contact, they say "we're going to Mars"....

...

What's the next move?

It got to be:

when can't even make it to a Full Retard, they thump the chest and congratulate each other with "we're already Super Retards!”

Thanks for proving who is Full and Super Retarded. :blah:
 
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Soviets offered Mig21 to you guys in 1969? - source,
Read the article below under the heading "Experience with MiG-21s
if that is true, you still bought f86 sabres second hand in 71 and rejected mig 21's which eventually proved better than your starfighters?
The F-86s were bought in 1966, after their highly credible performance in 1965 war. When Soviet Russia offered the MiGs in 1969, PAF had already inducted two further new weapon systems, Chinese F-6 and French Mirage-3, in any case, the MiG-21 was rejected due to it's poor qualities. As for the MiGs proving better than the Starfighters, it's an irony that it became a victim of both the F-86 (Image) and the F-6.
F7's I think you got f7's in late 80's and then returned them to china as they were unsatisfactory? maybe you have better idea.

Yes, Bison were upgraded beginning 98, They performed exceedingly well in exercise with USAF
The F-7Ps were received in the late 80s and proved a potent fighter, however later in 2002, the much more capable F-7PGs were delivered to the PAF.
Experience with MiG-21s
scan0002-5.jpg


images


The last air battle of 1971 war between PAF and IAF took place on 17th December. The encounter involved a humble PAF F-86 Sabre against a Supersonic MIG-21 of the IAF.
Flt Lt. Maqsood Amir emerged the victorious pilot when he shot down the MIG-21, No C 116 through a missile attack.
The Indian pilot was captured after ejecting from his stricken aircraft.
 
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Read the article below under the heading "Experience with MiG-21s
The F-86s were bought in 1966, after their highly credible performance in 1965 war. When Soviet Russia offered the MiGs in 1969, PAF had already inducted two further new weapon systems, Chinese F-6 and French Mirage-3, in any case, the MiG-21 was rejected due to it's poor qualities. As for the MiGs proving better than the Starfighters, it's an irony that it became a victim of both the F-86 (Image) and the F-6.

The F-7Ps were received in the late 80s and proved a potent fighter, however later in 2002, the much more capable F-7PGs were delivered to the PAF.
Experience with MiG-21s
scan0002-5.jpg


images


The last air battle of 1971 war between PAF and IAF took place on 17th December. The encounter involved a humble PAF F-86 Sabre against a Supersonic MIG-21 of the IAF.
Flt Lt. Maqsood Amir emerged the victorious pilot when he shot down the MIG-21, No C 116 through a missile attack.
The Indian pilot was captured after ejecting from his stricken aircraft.


Actually I read that F6's were actually much capable fighters than the mig 21 when they were evaluated by the americans.

IAF Mig21's claimed F6BMK's mirage 3's and f86 sabres albiet it's an inferior dogfighter.
Vietnamese Mig21's claimed thunder chiefs and f4 phantoms alike

http://orbat.com/site/cimh/iaf/IAF_1971_kills_rev1.pdf
 
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Actually I read that F6's were actually much capable fighters than the mig 21 when they were evaluated by the americans.

IAF Mig21's claimed F6BMK's mirage 3's and f86 sabres albiet it's an inferior dogfighter.
Vietnamese Mig21's claimed thunder chiefs and f4 phantoms alike

http://orbat.com/site/cimh/iaf/IAF_1971_kills_rev1.pdf

If I am not mistaken, most of the F-4 Phantoms were brought down by ground fire. I have never heard of any of them being shot down by MiG-21s.
Operation Bolo Mig Sweep

I was proven in the 71' Indo-Pak war that the MiG-21 is superior to the F-104.

But, it is inferior to the F-4 Phantom. Pakistan never operated them.
 
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Actually I read that F6's were actually much capable fighters than the mig 21 when they were evaluated by the americans.

IAF Mig21's claimed F6BMK's mirage 3's and f86 sabres albiet it's an inferior dogfighter.
Vietnamese Mig21's claimed thunder chiefs and f4 phantoms alike

http://orbat.com/site/cimh/iaf/IAF_1971_kills_rev1.pdf

The F-6 had an excellent thrust/weight ratio and could accelerate and climb like any Mach-2 aircraft. Instillation of sidewinders on the F-6 by PAF technicians, in conjunction with it's normal three 30mm cannons resulted in an outstanding weapon system. It was due to it's excellent performance that the aircraft served with PAF for over 35 years.
No aerial combat took place between the IAF's Mig-21s and PAF Mirages, the only encounter happened, when a pair of MiGs tried to intercept a PAF Mirage on a night reconnaissance mission, and the MiG leader ended up shooting down his own No.2 mistaking him for the Mirage.

If I am not mistaken, most of the F-4 Phantoms were brought down by ground fire. I have never heard of any of them being shot down by MiG-21s.
Operation Bolo Mig Sweep

I was proven in the 71' Indo-Pak war that the MiG-21 is superior to the F-104.

But, it is inferior to the F-4 Phantom. Pakistan never operated them.
During the Arab/Israeli war of 1973, a PAF pilot deputed to the Syrian air force, shot down an Israeli Mirage IIICJ, while flying in a MiG-21.
 
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If I am not mistaken, most of the F-4 Phantoms were brought down by ground fire. I have never heard of any of them being shot down by MiG-21s.
Operation Bolo Mig Sweep

I was proven in the 71' Indo-Pak war that the MiG-21 is superior to the F-104.

But, it is inferior to the F-4 Phantom. Pakistan never operated them.

They did. That is why Mig-21PF got an nickname called ' Phantom Killer'. It is the first Mig-21 equipped with radar. NVAF ace managed to brought down a few F-4 during the ending days of American air campaign of the closing stage of 1972....
 
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