"Chinese" demand apology as Indonesian communist-purge film gets Oscar nod !

[Wholegrain]

It is of course very unrealistic to ask apology from a honorable strong country like Indonesia, Japan,etc when China has a list of crimes it commits, bullies smaller neighbors and infringes others land and water borders while occupying several people. They should understand that this will backfire in their face if they keep stiring the beehive. They think a paper tiger will scare self-esteemed Japanese brothers. They are itching to finish where they were left off. The bottom line is they shouldn't push it because it won't end good for them. Japan should have closer ties with our Indonesian brothers.

Japan is currently occupying Ainu land in Hokkaido and Okinawa.

In Okinawa, Talk of Independence From Japan Turns Serious

History of Ainu resistance against Japan

Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Daniel808]

I am glad things are getting better for you in Indonesia.

yes, we are getting better and hope the future will be better
Thank you

feel pain deeply for indonisia-chinese suffering ,just hope history not reapeat. some chinese poster make me shame . we should rather losing debate than humanity.

Thanks for your concern
Agree with you

Good.. to make it BALANCE though.. how about next time you post something positive about how good Tionghoas (Indonesian chinese) are treated in Indonesia nowadays... because it is also the TRUTH.

Don't keep talking about racist Indonesians (which in fact only a few - every country has one) and ignoring MOST Indonesian, natives, muslims who are not racist toward Tionghoas, who protect them and embrace them equal as Indonesian brothers and sisters all this time.

Thank you.

maybe, if I Find "That" news. Surely I will post it in here.
But the Fact is the fact.
We can be Nationalism, but we can not Ignoring our "Dark" side. Just my opinion

 

[Daniel808]

Why, we Indonesian need to be forgiven by China? It is our history and we are redeeming what we have done for ourselves, for our people and yeah we are very sorry for all of our native Chinese-Indonesian so we had promised them a better Indonesia for them and for their grandchildren in future, that sorry is not to please PRC.

Just let them come and see if they can protect anything

Just for your Info.
Right know, the "Victim" is not just Indonesian Citizenship. Many of "Victim" especially from 1998 riots. after that happen. flee to abroad and apply for another citizenship like PRC Citizenship, Singapore, and Australia Citizenship.

Like my Friend, Who had their home burnt and escaped through the roof Right know his an Australian Citizen.

so, what Sorry you mean?
For the victim who still have Indonesian Citizenship or for all Indonesian Born Chinese who become the victim in that Riots? Which Currently become PRC Citizen, Australia Citizen, etc.

 

[Daniel808]

You do know that these "killers" also saved another millions of Indonesians from Communist coup right? So stop talking about bringing this one and that one to justice because the so called justice depends on the one who wrote it. To some people, these "killers" are heroes, but to some other people they might be assholes. For example, Mao might be an asshole for ROC, but he is a god-like to CCP China. It is the same for those "killers", Indonesia might become another Cambodian Khmer Rouge if Communist coup succeeded, so to some people, these "killers" saved them from communists hardliners.

Do you know that the number of the "Angkatan ke-5 or the 5th Forces" of the PKI (Indonesian Communist Party) in 1960's exceeded the number of Indonesian armed forces? Who knows what would happen to non communist Indonesians if the republican forces did not take any actions to prevent the PKI from taking control of the government. And the victims of the communist purge in 1960's weren't only Chinese, all people that came from many different ethnic, who appeared to be communists, were also purged.

What wrong with this movie is that the maker only focus on victims who were chinese, rather than taking the whole picture of the massacre. Making it looks like a massacre that only targeted Chinese.

For me as Indonesian Citizen. That people is a Bunch of Sh!t

The Problem is not Communist mass killing.
but, the Problem is When you are "chinese", they don't care you are Communist or not, they just Kill you.
with PROUD they say too, Because we hate "Chinese", so we kill them all.
until know, they still able to live freely ! and also they say, Cause we are the Law. So, We don't feel guilty at all to kill "Chinese"

 

[Wholegrain]

Most of the Chinese I know fancy Japanese culture and want to be Japanese. You do the math. The pathological state of these beings is funny to say the least.

Atatkhar, even Sepratist Uyghurs like Isa Yusuf Alptekin supported China against Japan in WW2, even after their "First East Turkestan Republic was crushed by Chinese Muslim forces.

The Muslim World - Google Books

OBITUARY ISA YUSUF ALPTEKIN - a great mujahid died East Turkistan Leader Isa ifusuf Alptekin died on 17 Dec '95 at Istanbul. ... Feb '96, Isa Yusuf Alptekin, former Secretary of the East Turkistan Government and fighter for the freedom of Sinkiang Koumuntang, died in ... Turkistan. During the Sino-Japanese War he advocated the cause of China and continued his efforts for the autonomy of Sinkiang.

Alptekin and another Uyghur who went by the Chinese name Ma Fuliang, also traveled to the middle east (Turkey) to raise support for China against Japan. (Alptekin and his friend are mislabeled as Hui here)

Around the middle of 1939, Chongqing sent two prominent Hui Muslim leaders, Isa Yusuf Alptekin and Ma Fuliang (F.L. Ozbek Ma), to Turkey, Syria and Egypt for the purpose of extending Chiang Kai-shek's goodwill and soliciting sympathy ... - Google Search

Modern China's Ethnic Frontiers: A Journey to the West - Hsiao-ting Lin - Google Books

Around the middle of 1939, Chongqing sent two prominent Hui Muslim leaders, Isa Yusuf Alptekin and Ma Fuliang (F.L. Ozbek Ma), to Turkey, Syria and Egypt for the purpose of extending Chiang Kai-shek's goodwill and soliciting sympathy ...

Alptekin and Ma Fuliang brought Uyghur youths from Sinkiang (Xinjiang) to enlist in China's military during the war to fight Japan.

China at War - Google Books

China Magazine - Google Books

LED by Ma Fu- liang, Moslem member of the Mongolian and Tibetan Affairs Commission, the second batch of 10 Sinkiang Mohammedan youths have arrived in Chungking after a rigorous trip via India and Rangoon. This brings the total of the arrivals to 29. This brings the total of the arrivals to 29. All will join the Central Military Academy in Free China next fall.

The Pan Turkic Uyghur separatist Dr. Masud Sabri also sided with China, joining the Chinese government in Chongqing along with other Uyghurs who joined the Chinese military academy to fight Japan.

Biographical Dictionary of Republican China - Google Books

Ma Fuliang and another Uyghur named Ismail were part of China's national military council during the war against Japan, while Dr. Masud Sabri was part of the State Council and Legislature.

China Magazine - Google Books

Ma Fu-liang and Ismail are advisers of the National Military Council, while Dr. Masoud, former State Councillor of the National Government, is a member of the Legislative Yuan. Other Mohammedan members of the Legislative Yuan include...

Yulbars Khan (General Yulbas) was another Uyghur in the Chinese military.

China Magazine - Google Books

General Yulbas, councillor of the National Military Council

Most of those men, like Alptekin, Sabri, were hard core Pan Turkic and Uyghur separatists and had been to Turkey before the war with Japan broke out. Yulbars (Yulbas) was the only non separatist and non pan Turkist Uyghur among them.

Isa Alptekin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Masud Sabri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They sided with China against Japan even after their "East Turkestan Republic[/b] was crushed in 1934 by Chinese Muslims.

Battle of Kashgar (1934) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The only Uyghur who tried siding with Japan was Muhammad Amin Bughra. He was arrested by Britain in India, but the Chinese government sent Isa Alptekin to bail him out and convince him to defect to China. He came to China and joined the Chinese government and worked as a writer for Chinese pro- government media along with Alptekin.

Muhammad Amin Bughra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't need to even mention what non-separatist Turkic Salar Muslims did to the Japanese, since Uyghur separatists already hated them......

马家军悲壮的抗战：百名骑兵集体投河殉国--军事频道-中华网-中国最大军事网站

Leonard Francis Clark wrote about a Salar officer in the Qinghai army of Ma Bufang who killed Japanese in "The Marching Wind"

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Israel's international respect is going to come very close to ZERO.

Poll: Israel viewed negatively around the world | JPost | Israel News

BBC poll: Israel among world's least popular nations - World Israel News | Haaretz

Tide of world opinion is turning firmly against Israel’s occupation | The National

Israel and Iran Share Most Negative Ratings in Global Poll -- Backgrounder




I'm not from the PRC idiot, and Indians pretend to feel sorry because they perceive Indonesia as an Islamic state (no, its not, it is a majority Muslim state, but not an Islamic state, and some Indonesian Muslims even use Hindu names)

To clarify my position, no one is talking about you. These days, I am getting to enjoy all sorts of insults. Do not hypothesize what Indians are thinking.

 

[Developereo]

The Indians here seem to be more humane than certain PRC here. PDF Indians here seems to speak up for Chinese Indonesian.

Many Indians on this forum don't give a damn about Chinese. The only thing they see here is an opportunity to create trouble between China and Muslims. That's their ONLY agenda in all this.

 

[Wholegrain]

It frightened me to think the whole Indonisia not doing anything to punish these killers,and what make them proud of killing,

How they gonna prevent this happen again?Otherwise those Indonisia Chinese died for nothing.
If chaos erupt again ,will Chinese fall into victim again,even they are Indonisia CITIZEN,can speak zero Chinese?

Haha,as I know they killed child and raped tortured then killed women from age 5 to 80,are they a threat to the rest of Indonisian,

How many are innocent,did the killers care?how about u,DO YUO CARE,,,,,,!!!??

Now the movie has been viewed world wide,and brutal truth has been revealed,(thanks to those Indonisian film maker,you make me still believe that have hope and prospect further for Indonesia ),the question is ,if Indonisia government under pressure to bring the killer to justice,say this pressure could come from international or domestic .
If none .......,then Mr MADOKAFC,I think you have conscience and patriot,you would do something ,would you?


Don't forget the victims were Indonisia citizen.


Yes we have good sides and dark sides in common,cause we are close neighbours ,you don't have to agree thoug,haha

In the 1990s ripts, Indonesia also did nothing to punish the killers of Madurese, the killings in Sulawesi, and the killings in many other places, and in the 1960s purge, most of the Communist victims were Indonesian Muslims, so why are you complaining about only massacres of Chinese?

For me as Indonesian Citizen. That people is a Bunch of Sh!t

The Problem is not Communist mass killing.
but, the Problem is When you are "chinese", they don't care you are Communist or not, they just Kill you.
with PROUD they say too, Because we hate "Chinese", so we kill them all.
until know, they still able to live freely ! and also they say, Cause we are the Law. So, We don't feel guilty at all to kill "Chinese"

You are talking about the 1990 riots, not the 1960s anti Communist purge. In the 1990s many different people got massacred because they hated each other. Some Pagan Dayaks and Muslim Malays decided to hack Muslim Madurese to death because they said that "hate" the Madurese, Chinese are not the only victims during the fall of Suharto.

 

[Wholegrain]

Many Indians on this forum don't give a damn about Chinese. The only thing they see here is an opportunity to create trouble between China and Muslims. That's their ONLY agenda in all this.

And in the anti Madurese riots, although the initial attacks against the Madurese were started by Dayaks, the later massive purge was started by Malays, and then the Dayaks joined in the fray and supported them en masse, killing 3,000 of the Madurese. (These Malays are Indonesian Malays who are citizens of Indonesia, not Malaysian citizens)

indahnesia.com - The Sampit conflict - People - The Madurese and the Dayak - Discover Indonesia Online

Violence in Indonesian Borneo Spurs the Relocation of Ethnic Madurese | Cultural Survival

Malay Muslims and Dayak pagans destroyed Madurese Muslims mosques, and raped, killed, mutilated, and tortured Madurese Muslims from the late 1990s to early 2000s. Madurese accused the Indonesian government of downplaying the violence and doing nothing. Basically the same thing which happened to Chinese in 1998.

Anomie and Violence: Non-truth and Reconciliation in Indonesian Peacebuilding - John Braithwaite, Valerie Braithwaite, Michael Cookson, Leah Dunn - Google Books

Some Islamophobes like using Indonesia's riots as examples of Muslims persecuting non-Muslims. I have never heard such stupid nonsense in my life, these riots were almost entirely based in ethnic conflict and racism, not religion.

The perpetrators in these massacres also got away with their actions, and these riots also got very little publicity compared to the anti-Chinese massacre. Anyone claiming Indonesians are persecuting people for their religion is lying. These are all local level conflicts fueled by ethnic hatred, based on economic disparities between different ethnic groups and land disputes.

 

[Developereo]

Everyone, please watch your language and avoid insulting people or countries.

Thank you.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Someone here failed to mentioned central Sulawesi sectarian clashes, Ambon...etc to name a few whereby Al Qaeda affiliated Islamofacist were suspected of working very hard.

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Indonesia flashpoints: Sulawesi

BBC News - Troops sent after deadly clashes in Indonesia's Ambon

Also Indonesian are increasingly shiiting on their own Shia, to the chagrin of the progressive. In addition, there are frequent reports of churches getting burned down.....etc.

No one has to be afraid of Islam, "all these terrorist got nothing to do with Islam".

Below is what Shia is relishing in Indonesia, condemned by Al Jazeera.

There is so much to rebut. I am getting more and more bored each days and I expose very little of what I found is unfair comments. There are people who tried to mislead with "correct information", and selective reporting. I hope truth seekers here will be diligent to dig out truth from slanted presentation.

Al Jazeera a station own by Sunni Qatar is much more credible than many -- surprisingly.

I think that it was a racial killing mixed with anti-communist purge. It showed how barbarian the SE Asians or humanity could be. Some SE Asians were historically forced to "transform" into civilized world by foreign powers, and they could contribute nothing to the world but wild natures...

Thank you. Your words may not be that calibrated but at least you are honest and much more accurate than those who try show himself a savant.

 

[Aegis DDG]

Someone here failed to mentioned central Sulawesi sectarian clashes, Ambon...etc to name a few whereby Al Qaeda affiliated Islamofacist were suspected of working very hard.

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Indonesia flashpoints: Sulawesi

BBC News - Troops sent after deadly clashes in Indonesia's Ambon

Also Indonesian are increasingly shiiting on their own Shia, to the chagrin of the progressive. In addition, there are frequent reports of churches getting burned down.....etc.

No one has to be afraid of Islam, "all these terrorist got nothing to do with Islam".

Below is what Shia is relishing in Indonesia, condemned by Al Jazeera.

There is so much to rebut. I am getting more and more bored each days and I expose very little of what I found is unfair comments. There are people who tried to mislead with "correct information", and selective reporting. I hope truth seekers here will be diligent to dig out truth from slanted presentation.

Al Jazeera a station own by Sunni Qatar is much more credible than many -- surprisingly.



Thank you. Your words may not be that calibrated but at least you are honest and much more accurate than those who try show himself a savant.

You hate people of color.. So why act all humanitrian all of an sudden? You would probably look down upon an SSA, S.E Asian, Indians etc.

 

[nufix]

For me as Indonesian Citizen. That people is a Bunch of Sh!t

The Problem is not Communist mass killing.
but, the Problem is When you are "chinese", they don't care you are Communist or not, they just Kill you.
with PROUD they say too, Because we hate "Chinese", so we kill them all.
until know, they still able to live freely ! and also they say, Cause we are the Law. So, We don't feel guilty at all to kill "Chinese"

Me too, their crimes against humanity are actually very high.

but we can't just drag them out because the conditions still favor them. Japanese military generals who commited massacre accross Asia are also not yet prosecuted until now because the U.S, as the winner, decided to not to prosecute them for some reasons.

In that film, there's also a guy that says that because he's a winner, he decides what law is. The bigger picture of his statement is, Indonesia today is a product of the war these "killers" had won in 1960's. They literally wiped out communists and they literally claimed the throne. So like I said, conditions still favor them because Indonesia today is what they had created.

Anyway, they didn't actually say they don't feel guilty to kill "chinese", they said that they don't feel guilty for killing communists.

I am not actually into this discussion, because it may open an old wound without finding any answer we both seek. But you should understand that their hatred towards Communists, who appeared to be mostly chinese, were quite justified because at that time, the PKI had also done many opressions to the common people. For example, land distributions, who forced the farmers to give their lands up and to be given a certain amount of lands according to the communist's rconomic system. Spreading propaganda against religion through LEKRA, etc. And Ex-Chinese communists in Indonesia were actually quite lucky compared to other communists from other ethnics, at least there were not many chinese got branded as communists forever by Soeharto and were allowed to prospere.

What I am trying to explain to you is: You, being a chinese born Indonesian, should not open an old wound, neither do I. At that time everything was chaos and those old men you saw on the film are the products of that chaos, let them hate what they want to hate, their lifespan is not that long, give or take 4 years and they will be gone forever. You and I are the products of the new generation, which has nothing to do with the chaos that happened in 1960's, so why don't we stop trying to expose wounds we don't even have?

 

[Wholegrain]

Me too, their crimes against humanity are actually very high.

but we can't just drag them out because the conditions still favor them. Japanese military generals who commited massacre accross Asia are also not yet prosecuted until now because the U.S, as the winner, decided to not to prosecute them for some reasons.

In that film, there's also a guy that says that because he's a winner, he decides what law is. The bigger picture of his statement is, Indonesia today is a product of the war these "killers" had won in 1960's. They literally wiped out communists and they literally claimed the throne. So like I said, conditions still favor them because Indonesia today is what they had created.

Anyway, they didn't actually say they don't feel guilty to kill "chinese", they said that they don't feel guilty for killing communists.

I am not actually into this discussion, because it may open an old wound without finding any answer we both seek. But you should understand that their hatred towards Communists, who appeared to be mostly chinese, were quite justified because at that time, the PKI had also done many opressions to the common people. For example, land distributions, who forced the farmers to give their lands up and to be given a certain amount of lands according to the communist's rconomic system. Spreading propaganda against religion through LEKRA, etc. And Ex-Chinese communists in Indonesia were actually quite lucky compared to other communists from other ethnics, at least there were not many chinese got branded as communists forever by Soeharto and were allowed to prospere.

What I am trying to explain to you is: You, being a chinese born Indonesian, should not open an old wound, neither do I. At that time everything was chaos and those old men you saw on the film are the products of that chaos, let them hate what they want to hate, their lifespan is not that long, give or take 4 years and they will be gone forever. You and I are the products of the new generation, which has nothing to do with the chaos that happened in 1960's, so why don't we stop trying to expose wounds we don't even have?

The Indonesian government under Sukarno encouraged and recruited Chinese in Borneo to join Communist aligned groups like PGRS, turning them into militant groups and telling them to invade Sarawak during Konfrontasi, this policy of Sukarno encouraged identification of Chinese Indonesians with Communists since almost all PGRS members became Chinese. When Suharto came to power and ousted Sukarno and his leftist regime, he decided to deal with these groups by inciting Dayak pagans to massacre and drive out Chinese villagers in Kalimantan, claiming that all the villagers were PGRS and PKI sympathizers/Communists.

Conflict, Violence, and Displacement in Indonesia - Google Books

The Limits of Tradition: Peasants and Land Conflicts in Indonesia - Mariko Urano - Google Books

It frightened me to think the whole Indonisia not doing anything to punish these killers,and what make them proud of killing,

How they gonna prevent this happen again?Otherwise those Indonisia Chinese died for nothing.
If chaos erupt again ,will Chinese fall into victim again,even they are Indonisia CITIZEN,can speak zero Chinese?

Many of the people who killed Chinese Indonesians the 1960s were Dayak pagans-ordinary Dayak civlians who were incited by Suharto. What do you want? The entire Dayak ethnic group to be banned?

Anomie and Violence: Non-truth and Reconciliation in Indonesian Peacebuilding - John Braithwaite, Valerie Braithwaite, Michael Cookson, Leah Dunn - Google Books

The Limits of Tradition: Peasants and Land Conflicts in Indonesia - Mariko Urano - Google Books

Conflict, Violence, and Displacement in Indonesia - Google Books

Southeast Asia: Essays in Political Geography - Lee Yong Leng - Google Books

The Hakkas of Sarawak: Sacrificial Gifts in Cold War Era Malaysia - Kee Howe Yong - Google Books

 

[atatwolf]

@Wholegrain

Read my signature. Times changed. We will side with the right side. We won't make the same mistakes since we know what it can lead to.