‘Chinese contractors enter innocuously but then turn stern’

[UKBengali]

Pakistan received $67 billion of FREE money over 40 years from the USA. In todays money that is worth $210 billion plus subsidised and latest weapons being a member of CENTO and SEATO.
The Russians build one of the largest steel plant in Pakistan. What has happened to it ?
It barely runs and the Pakistani's have been trying to sell it off for many years.
Pakistan has received massive aid from the Arabs as well as most of the West.

Don't forget 2 billion US dollars of fiscal transfers from BD to Pakistan from 1947-1971.

In today's money that would be 20 billion US dollars.

 

[BananaRepublicUK]

Pakistan received $67 billion of FREE money over 40 years from the USA. In todays money that is worth $210 billion plus subsidised and latest weapons being a member of CENTO and SEATO.
The Russians build one of the largest steel plant in Pakistan. What has happened to it ?
It barely runs and the Pakistani's have been trying to sell it off for many years.
Pakistan has received massive aid from the Arabs as well as most of the West.

True but it was all stolen by the Generals.

 

[peagle]

Pakistan received $67 billion of FREE money over 40 years from the USA. In todays money that is worth $210 billion plus subsidised and latest weapons being a member of CENTO and SEATO.
The Russians build one of the largest steel plant in Pakistan. What has happened to it ?
It barely runs and the Pakistani's have been trying to sell it off for many years.
Pakistan has received massive aid from the Arabs as well as most of the West.

Seriously, what is wrong with you? You're going senile in your old age.

Do you Indians, you're not even Indian, an African reject, but let's stick with your interpretation.
Why do you Indians love spreading lies?

Where the bleeding heck did you conjure up those figures from? From that backside you attend to dozen times a day.

The day you are ready to have a sensible and a proper discussion with me, is the day you contact me, till then I advise that you to stay away, I am sick of your hate filled sick lies about Pakistan, you shameless ignorant fool.

@peagle

Thanks for your posts in this thread. They have been of exceptional quality, highly informative and . devoid of any rancour.

There is one question about Pak economy intend to ask, which I shall address in a separate thread hopefully over the weekend. With your kind permission I will tag you and seek your views as well.

Regards

Thank you for your kind words.
Please feel free to ask or discuss anything, if I am aware, I shall try to contribute.

 

[Turingsage]

Seriously, what is wrong with you? You're going senile in your old age.

Do you Indians, you're not even Indian, an African reject, but let's stick with your interpretation.
Why do you Indians love spreading lies?

Where the bleeding heck did you conjure up those figures from? From that backside you attend to dozen times a day.

Dr Farukh Saleem ACTUALLY knows how to count as he ACTUALLY does detailed analysis with REAL figures. Its tiresome that the idiot awam of Pakistan does not even know BASIC counting.


"We owe $55 billion to multilateral organizations. The IMF is in no mood for any concessions. The IMF wants fiscal consolidation. The World Bank is in no mood for any concessions. The IMF and the World Bank both want energy sector reforms. Between 1951 and 2011, the US sent in $67 billion. The US withdrew the last of its troops from Afghanistan in August 2021. We are a ‘front line state’ no more. We are a ‘major non-Nato ally’ no more."

International The News

 

[peagle]

Dr Farukh Saleem ACTUALLY knows how to count as he ACTUALLY does detailed analysis with REAL figures. Its tiresome that the idiot awam of Pakistan does not even know BASIC counting.


"We owe $55 billion to multilateral organizations. The IMF is in no mood for any concessions. The IMF wants fiscal consolidation. The World Bank is in no mood for any concessions. The IMF and the World Bank both want energy sector reforms. Between 1951 and 2011, the US sent in $67 billion. The US withdrew the last of its troops from Afghanistan in August 2021. We are a ‘front line state’ no more. We are a ‘major non-Nato ally’ no more."

International The News

What kind of rubbish is this?
A newspaper article from an idiot, and suddenly it becomes Gospel truth to the likes of Pakistan hating bigots such as yourself.

These stupid experts get confused like your senile brain, I know who he is, and how many mistakes and contradictions they make in different programs. Loans and aid are two different things they don't differentiate, it's childishly stupid. America and the West are also two different things, they always confuse the two. Just because America controls the World bank and the IMF, doesn't mean it's America, in their stupid minds it's the same thing, which it isn't.

So clarifying the facts is important, otherwise it all becomes lies, and this is exactly what it is, just a bunch of lies being told by ignorant fools, and repeated by an ignorant fool.


Regarding the aid situation in general.
#India got a lot more money then Pakistan, not just from America, but also the rest of the world. They did nothing in return, what is it called when you get free money, and you do nothing in return?
I think they call it begging.

Pakistan helped them by fighting communism, and helped to destroy their greatest enemy, the Soviet Union, it provided equal value. And helped to fight terrorism for which they themselves were to blame because they packed up and ran after the Soviet withdrawal, which created the situation for extremist groups to take root in Afghanistan.

Spend few minutes thinking, it helps.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@peagle

India got a lot more money then Pakistan, not just from America,

This is true of course. If the article by my dear friend Brofessor sb (@RiazHaq) is anything to go by, India has got USD 65 billion as against USD 44 billion by Pak. Do remember thought that India's population is almost 7 times as much. In per capita terms. Pak fares much higher. The key of course is that you cannot be permanently be hooked to aid. India eventually weaned off post 1991

Pakistan helped them by fighting communism,..... and helped to fight terrorism for which they themselves were to blame

Well, if Pakistanis think that radicalising their own population to "fight communism" and then bombing that radicalised population creating another cycle is a good idea... well I have nothing to say on that.

Regards

 

[BananaRepublicUK]

@peagle

India got a lot more money then Pakistan, not just from America,

This is true of course. If the article by my dear friend Brofessor sb (@RiazHaq) is anything to go by, India has got USD 65 billion as against USD 44 billion by Pak. Do remember thought that India's population is almost 7 times as much. In per capita terms. Pak fares much higher. The key of course is that you cannot be permanently be hooked to aid. India eventually weaned off post 1991

Pakistan helped them by fighting communism,..... and helped to fight terrorism for which they themselves were to blame

Well, if Pakistanis think that radicalising their own population to "fight communism" and then bombing that radicalised population creating another cycle is a good idea... well I have nothing to say on that.

Regards

Pakistani military elite love the US lifestyle. Their kids attend the top unis.

All of that will be stopped if they do not toe the line.

India has always followed an independent foreign policy and has paid the price.

But Pakistan would pay an even bigger price if it didn’t toe the US line.

Hasina has managed to evade US dictat - but for how much longer?

Keeping the US at arms length has been the recipe for success. But it’s about to come to an end. US wants Bangladesh to serve the same purpose as Pakistan I.e. be a hotbed for Jihadists as a buffer to anything not neoliberal.

 

[RiazHaq]

@peagle

India got a lot more money then Pakistan, not just from America,

This is true of course. If the article by my dear friend Brofessor sb (@RiazHaq) is anything to go by, India has got USD 65 billion as against USD 44 billion by Pak. Do remember thought that India's population is almost 7 times as much. In per capita terms. Pak fares much higher. The key of course is that you cannot be permanently be hooked to aid. India eventually weaned off post 1991

Pakistan helped them by fighting communism,..... and helped to fight terrorism for which they themselves were to blame

Well, if Pakistanis think that radicalising their own population to "fight communism" and then bombing that radicalised population creating another cycle is a good idea... well I have nothing to say on that.

Regards

India is still the world's biggest recipient of foreign aid. Pakistan is not even in the top 15:

Have Modi's Misguided Policies Turned India Into A Beggar Nation?

News, analysis and opinions about India, Pakistan, US, Canada, Europe, Mid East, South Asia, Silicon Valley, High Technology, Economy, Politics, World

www.riazhaq.com

India is also the world's biggest recipient of worker remittances. In 2022, for the first time a single country, India, is on track to receive more than $100 billion in yearly remittances.

Remittances Grow 5% in 2022, Despite Global Headwinds

Remittances to low- and middle-income countries (LMICs) withstood global headwinds in 2022, growing an estimated 5% to $626 billion. This is sharply lower than the 10.2% increase in 2021, according to the latest World Bank Migration and Development Brief.

www.worldbank.org

 

[Turingsage]

India is also the worlds largest country by population and its poverty is large. Its unicorns are large, Its economy is large . Its rail network is largest in the world. It has the largest employer in the world (Indian railways). It is the largest democracy in the world. It is the fastest growing economy amongst the large countries.
So what Riaz and please stop quoting your own partisan musings in your own posts as "evidence"

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

India is also the worlds largest country by population and its poverty is large. Its unicorns are large, Its economy is large . Its rail network is largest in the world. It has the largest employer in the world (Indian railways). It is the largest democracy in the world. It is the fastest growing economy amongst the large countries.
So what Riaz and please stop quoting your own partisan musings in your own posts as "evidence"

The fact his origin nation's PM had to say
Pakistan has been with a ‘begging bowl’ for 75 years: PM Shehbaz Sharif

and given previous leadership has turned the country into South Asia 13th time bailout champion
Pakistan agrees to 13th bailout in 30 years from the IMF

These have not gone well and as a compensation the dream is to drag India down to the above level at least in narrative


Part of that is to count ODA concessional loans to Indian Govt as aid

IS IT ODA?

But to qualify as ODA, loans must still be concessional in character, i.e. below market interest rates.

I never knew low interest loans were aid

 

[Turingsage]

I never knew low interest loans were aid

In the deluded resident "economist" world of Riaz Haq ODA is aid and all deferred oil and gas payments offered by the Gulf potentates which are often wiped clean, are loans to Pakistan and not aid in the Riaz haq world.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@RiazHaq

Brofessor sb,

With due respects, ODA and that too tied to purchase from donor countries hardly qualifies as debt. In the case of India, as you can see most of the ODA funding is from Japan which is essentially funding for the Dedicated Freight Corridor- a high capacity rail network.

India is also the world's biggest recipient of worker remittances.

That is not charity. That is the earnings of people of Indian origin which is remitted back.

Anyway, I dont see what is the point. India will get around USD 100 billion , Pak will get 29. Per capita basis Pak is "worse" off - assuming that having a large amount of remittance money is a bad idea, which of course it is not.

Regards

 

[RiazHaq]

@RiazHaq

Brofessor sb,

With due respects, ODA and that too tied to purchase from donor countries hardly qualifies as debt. In the case of India, as you can see most of the ODA funding is from Japan which is essentially funding for the Dedicated Freight Corridor- a high capacity rail network.

India is also the world's biggest recipient of worker remittances.

That is not charity. That is the earnings of people of Indian origin which is remitted back.

Anyway, I dont see what is the point. India will get around USD 100 billion , Pak will get 29. Per capita basis Pak is "worse" off - assuming that having a large amount of remittance money is a bad idea, which of course it is not.

Regards

All assistance to Pakistan is ODA but it's still considered aid. It's in the form of low-rate concessional loans for development.

 

[peagle]

@peagle

India got a lot more money then Pakistan, not just from America,

This is true of course. If the article by my dear friend Brofessor sb (@RiazHaq) is anything to go by, India has got USD 65 billion as against USD 44 billion by Pak. Do remember thought that India's population is almost 7 times as much. In per capita terms. Pak fares much higher. The key of course is that you cannot be permanently be hooked to aid. India eventually weaned off post 1991

Pakistan helped them by fighting communism,..... and helped to fight terrorism for which they themselves were to blame

Well, if Pakistanis think that radicalising their own population to "fight communism" and then bombing that radicalised population creating another cycle is a good idea... well I have nothing to say on that.

Regards

There are lot of incorrect assumptions and factually false information being applied here, so not a basis on which a valid argument should be constructed.
I am in discussion with someone else on this topic in another thread, I will tag you when I'm done. It's a fairly detailed reply, so haven't got around to doing it yet, but my conclusions are already complete, just need to put thought to digital ink.


Per capita calculation is more complicated then if taken at face value. There are various aspects to that judgement, one is the from the point of the donor, the second being from the point of the recipient.
The donor never gives aid on a per capita calculation, but purely on how much they wish to give, so it's a relevant point. Secondly, the recipient calculation would have to take into account the domestic situation, how that per capita calculation should be assessed per existing infrastructure and so on. So it's not a straight forward calculation. The primary concern is that how the donor viewed that aid, and it's never on a per capita calculation. I'll cover more in the other thread.

The assumption of Pakistan permanently being hooked on aid is just plain silly, and grossly wrong. Every third world nation is hooked on aid, they all get a lot more money then Pakistan, and provide nothing in return. Pakistan has given value in return for aid, what did India and Bangladesh provide, nothing that I can think of. Pakistan helped them fight Soviet communism in the cold war, helped bring about the downfall of their greatest enemy, and fight against terrorism, which came about largely due to the West packing up and leaving overnight after the Soviets were defeated.

Indian did not wean off aid in 1991, to this day India get billions of dollars in aid, please look at the figures, just because it isn't reported in news, it doesn't mean it does not happen.
Just because Indian politicians don't make stupid self inflicting statements does not mean India isn't getting aid, every third world nation on earth including India is a begging nation, if we are to take the view of Pakistani politicians.

I am sorry to say, that radicalising argument is utterly stupid, and a false precept that has never been challenged, but it is utterly stupid.
The world goes through phases, their was no radicalisation of anything, Pakistani society also went through a phase, there was a military dictator in charge who had Islamic leanings, he couldn't have done anything on his own. The Afghan war after the Soviet invasion helped in creating that situation, the Saudi Wahabi movement helped create that situation, the Iranian mullahs after their revolution helped create that situation, the backlash from the liberal ideology of 60's and 70's helped create that situation, there are reasons.
People did not sit around a table, it was due to various factors, good and bad.

What's the reason behind India's radicalisation?
It has always been far worse then in Pakistan, it just never has been reported till recently. Just look at the history of communal violence, it is almost non existence in Pakistan, but thousands in India, anti religious laws exit in India, and so on, but it is viewed through a rosy prism, but when it comes to Pakistan everything gets blown out of proportion. It helps that Pakistanis love crying about themselves as well, but it doesn't make it true.

Your statement included far too many generalisations, so I can only answer in the same manner. If you can narrow down the discussion, perhaps we can go deeper. On any aspect.


This is the top aid recipient countries just in 2017.
India is number 1.
Bangladesh is number 6.
Pakistan isn't even in the top 15.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapping-the-global-flow-of-foreign-aid/