Chinese Carrier Battle Group

[ChineseTiger1986]

I commend you for your very realistic and rational post. Nice to see some realism here and not just hyper-nationalist chest thumping.

Well, i am realistic, since USA is master of the aircraft carrier, i don't have to deny it.

To build a modern aircraft carrier is huge integrated system, no other nation has even came out with aircraft carrier platform comparable to the Kitty Hawk class, let alone the Nimitz class.

 

[Sasquatch]

Only the Type 003 will be nuclear + EMALS, but it won't be started until after 2020.

Type 003 construction starts around 2018-2020 ? Only thing I've read so far on the Carrier programs is fanboy speculation from Sina and a few other forums. Still the PLAN leaping ahead Type 001 UG Liaoning > Type 002 Kitty Hawk > Type 003 Ford is a major accomplishment and better than what the Soviet Navy was doing by sticking to smaller carrier classes.

 

[KAL-EL]

Well, i am realistic, since USA is master of the aircraft carrier, i don't have to deny it.

To build a modern aircraft carrier is huge integrated system, no other nation has even came out with aircraft carrier platform comparable to the Kitty Hawk class, let alone the Nimitz class.

Very true, and like someone here already said, "you have to walk, before you run" but I have absolutely no doubt that China will have its fully operational carriers in the near future.

 

[nomi007]

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Type 003 construction starts around 2018-2020 ? Only thing I've read so far on the Carrier programs is fanboy speculation from Sina and a few other forums. Still the PLAN leaping ahead Type 001 UG Liaoning > Type 002 Kitty Hawk > Type 003 Ford is a major accomplishment and better than what the Soviet Navy was doing by sticking to smaller carrier classes.

According to POP3, a well-known military insider from CD and HSH, he personally believed that the construction will start around 2020, but there could have some uncertainty, so i personally believe around 2022-2023.

BTW, China's first step is to have the Type 001A (75000 tons STOBAR) by 2020 and the Type 002 (85000 tons CATOBAR) by 2022.

The Type 001A has been started the construction right now and the Type 002 will be started around 2016.

 

[Sasquatch]

According to POP3, a well-known military insider from CD and HSH, he personally believed that the construction will start around 2020, but there could have some uncertainty, so i personally believe around 2022-2023.

BTW, China's first step is to have the Type 001A (75000 tons STOBAR) by 2020 and the Type 002 (85000 tons CATOBAR) by 2022.

The Type 001A has been started the construction right now and the Type 002 will be started around 2016.

So the Type 001(STOBAR) will overcome the issues with the J-15 carrying heavier weapons and fuel on Liaoning.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

So the Type 001(STOBAR) will overcome the issues with the J-15 carrying heavier weapons and fuel on Liaoning.

The Type 001A will be almost identical to Liaoning except being slightly larger with few minor improvement.

The real groundbreaking aircraft carrier will be the Type 002, which can takeoff the full load J-15 and the AEW aircraft.

 

[Sasquatch]

The Type 001A will be almost identical to Liaoning except being slightly larger with few minor improvement.

The real groundbreaking aircraft carrier will be the Type 002, which can takeoff the full load J-15 and the AEW aircraft.

Liaoning can't carry AEWC's like the JZY-01, my question was since the Type 001 is an upgrade it would carry both J-15(Full weapons load) and JZY-01 AEWC or will this be the Type 002 ?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Liaoning can't carry AEWC's like the JZY-01, my question was since the Type 001 is an upgrade it would carry both J-15(Full weapons) and JZY-01 AEWC or will this be the Type 002 ?

The Type 001A will be based on more mature and reliable technology, but not any groundbreaking technology, so it is expected to be similar to Liaoning.

The Type 002 will carry the full load J-15 and AEWC, since CSSC has already developed the steam catapult with the performance approached to that of the C-13-2 catapult.

The C-13-2 catapult is only being used by CVN-72 to CVN-77.

 

[Genesis]

Liaoning can't carry AEWC's like the JZY-01, my question was since the Type 001 is an upgrade it would carry both J-15(Full weapons load) and JZY-01 AEWC or will this be the Type 002 ?

From a lot of experts in China, I been hearing, the Liaoning isn't that bad, the number of J-15 carried is limited, but based on amount of weapons carried and the way the aircraft took off, not dipping in altitude as it goes off the carrier due to weight, means the J-15 could actually be quite a capable fighter with enough weapons, especially if refueling is perfected.

As a seconddary carrier it should work fine. Against anyone but American, French, British, it should still be the carrier to beat.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

From a lot of experts in China, I been hearing, the Liaoning isn't that bad, the number of J-15 carried is limited, but based on amount of weapons carried and the way the aircraft took off, not dipping in altitude as it goes off the carrier due to weight, means the J-15 could actually be quite a capable fighter with enough weapons, especially if refueling is perfected.

As a seconddary carrier it should work fine. Against anyone but American, French, British, it should still be the carrier to beat.

China's aircraft carrier project is only aimed at USA.

If we can commission the Type 003 in 15 years, then we are definitely going to approach USA in term of the aircraft carrier capability.

 

[Sasquatch]

From a lot of experts in China, I been hearing, the Liaoning isn't that bad, the number of J-15 carried is limited, but based on amount of weapons carried and the way the aircraft took off, not dipping in altitude as it goes off the carrier due to weight, means the J-15 could actually be quite a capable fighter with enough weapons, especially if refueling is perfected.

As a seconddary carrier it should work fine. Against anyone but American, French, British, it should still be the carrier to beat.

Never said it was bad or the J-15 was either, but it's role is limited as a training carrier. Important things like AEWC and J-15 (fully loaded) cannot be used.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Never said it was bad or the J-15 was either, but it's role is limited as a training carrier. Important things like AEWC and J-15 (fully loaded) cannot be used.

The Type 001A didn't exist as part of the aircraft carrier project, but it was added by the former leader, i think it might be Hu Jintao's decision.

Initially, it was only 001->002->003, but now it has became 001->001A->002->003.

Too much uncertainty here, maybe there could have more than just one Type 002 aircraft carrier.

 

[Genesis]

China's aircraft carrier project is only aimed at USA.

If we can commission the Type 003 in 15 years, then we are definitely going to approach USA in term of the aircraft carrier capability.

US started modernization during WW1, then intensified during and before WW2. It was during the cold war that the US became a true military power.

That's about 100 years give or take.

China started in the 50s-60s, some small projects were taken here and there more or less like WW1 American stage. Then came the revolution, which reduced Chinese economy to nothing, I mean we were poorer than India and ASEAN, and military to men wearing ugly cloth holding guns not fit for pirates. If they are holding at all.

Then came late 70s and early 80s where we started to modernize again, but lack the funding and expertise. Then the 90s to late 90s we were finally getting a few projects off the grounds. This would be after WW1 before WW2 stage for US.

It was only by the 2000s, that our military truly took off, and new innovations, and new technologies were coming in. Funding no longer is a problem, talent was abundant.

By 2010s, we are coming into our own and this is like America's cold war stage.


So really we had about 2 decade of minimal work, then came 2 decade of low funding work, it's only the last decade that money became no object.

So while I don't think Chinese inferior I also don't think we are naturally superior, so if we can do it in 2035 to reach American level, that would be very ahead of schedule.


@Hu Songshan

aside from Soon british carriers and now French and America, no one else can launch AEWs from carriers. Even the next Indian carrier won't be able to. So for the next decade Liaoning is still number 4 behind those 3 nations.

Which if you think about it, from nothing to fourth, that's not bad.

As to full load, it'll be close to full load, I think we can get about 13-7 full load J-15s in the air after refueling. Not great but against Philippines and Vietnam more than enough. Against Japan, we got our home bases, not needed as much. Besides, H-6 can always come in with the assist.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

US started modernization during WW1, then intensified during and before WW2. It was during the cold war that the US became a true military power.

That's about 100 years give or take.

China started in the 50s-60s, some small projects were taken here and there more or less like WW1 American stage. Then came the revolution, which reduced Chinese economy to nothing, I mean we were poorer than India and ASEAN, and military to men wearing ugly cloth holding guns not fit for pirates. If they are holding at all.

Then came late 70s and early 80s where we started to modernize again, but lack the funding and expertise. Then the 90s to late 90s we were finally getting a few projects off the grounds. This would be after WW1 before WW2 stage for US.

It was only by the 2000s, that our military truly took off, and new innovations, and new technologies were coming in. Funding no longer is a problem, talent was abundant.

By 2010s, we are coming into our own and this is like America's cold war stage.


So really we had about 2 decade of minimal work, then came 2 decade of low funding work, it's only the last decade that money became no object.

So while I don't think Chinese inferior I also don't think we are naturally superior, so if we can do it in 2035 to reach American level, that would be very ahead of schedule.


@Hu Songshan

aside from Soon british carriers and now French and America, no one else can launch AEWs from carriers. Even the next Indian carrier won't be able to. So for the next decade Liaoning is still number 4 behind those 3 nations.

Which if you think about it, from nothing to fourth, that's not bad.

As to full load, it'll be close to full load, I think we can get about 13-7 full load J-15s in the air after refueling. Not great but against Philippines and Vietnam more than enough. Against Japan, we got our home bases, not needed as much. Besides, H-6 can always come in with the assist.

Just because they started it a hundred years earlier, it doesn't mean that we need another 100 years to catch up.