Chinese Aero Engine information thread

[ZeEa5KPul]

WS-10

Here are some new images then ...

Source?

 

[Figaro]

Source?

CCTV. I’m not sure where the documentary is though but it should be pretty obvious engine is WS-10 ...

 

[beijingwalker]

China’s new engine compared to Europe and American fighter jet engine

 

[samsara]

https://twitter.com/x/status/910519227890540545

 

[帅的一匹]

 

[yantong1980]

View attachment 428519

Any videos?

 

[Figaro]

You probably already know the answer Yourself? The answer is simple: the J-20 does not use this hybrid engine in the same way the J-10B/C does not use it. It simply does not exist.

The best, what is possible is a locally modified AL-31FN improved with certain technologies (esp. manufacturing processes and materials) from the WS-10 but surely not a Frankenstein-powerplant developed by mating the one engine's core and the other engine's exhaust; that's plain ridiculous and regardless how often this theory is repeated (esp. without any hard and concrete facts) it will not become reality.


By the way some guys need to differ or be more precisely: there is an AL-31F for the Flanker series and an FN for the J-10A and finally the latest modification the FN Series 3 tailored for the J-10B/C (and IMO the J-20 in modified form too).

Anyway; from what I so far gathered around especially via long and highly informative discussions with several Chinese guys (some You find mentioned here as highly reliable "sources" via Twitter- and their Weibo-account) is the following, which is especially interesting, since even if their reports do vary a bit (IMO most of all related to not properly differing the F from the FN) in details, all do in general agree on the same story:

The first two prototype-demonstrators of Project 718 – aka the J-20s numbered 2001 & 2002 – were using standard AL-31FN engines. The later prototypes – aka 2011-2017 – were using the uprated AL-31FN Series 3 with locally modified parts, specifically the nozzles, like the silver/dark coating thing we saw during their testing and since these are Chinese own upgrades, the report translated this into "locally manufactured engine".

Concerning the J-20’s current engine, they all agree that it is a locally modified AL-31FN or indeed FM and also that the current J-20’s engine is supported by the PLAAF factory / maintenance and overhaul facility No. 5719 near Chengdu, which also overhauls/refurbishes AL-31F/FN series for PLAAF and – IMO most important – is the only factory/facility for any AL-31-series engines in China. Even more all confirmed that Factory No.5719 is NOT capable of producing new engines, however it can produce engine vanes and the FADEC system now (http://www.pzhkdl.gov.cn/zhaoshang.asp?ClassID=9).

Concerning this report, its reliability and even more as for why Liming in Shenyang is mentioned their common believe is that this report was lousily researched, full of errors, mistakes, contradictions and false information (like the WP-14 Kunlun, its thrust parameters, Liming and J-20’s engine …) and was therefore deleted in order to avoid any further controversy.

All say Liming is by now in no way related to the current J-20’s engine but – and another hint for why that report mentioned Liming – it will since both WS-10 and WS-15 are developed by AECC Liming (aka Institute No.606). Reason for that is that there are indeed some reliable sources, which claim the WS-10B (or IPE) with about 14t will indeed be tested on the J-20 before WS-15 finished development since its higher thrust compared to the current engine but this will depend on how long it will take until the projected WS-15 will be ready. If there are any further delays expected it is likely, if not, then another interim engine-change is unlikely and as such deemed a waste of time and resources.

In summary, Shenyang/Liming is working on WS-15 and the WS-10 if it will eventually be tested, so it will support J-20 engine manufacturing eventually but it is not yet and that was overhyped by that report.

Concerning by FM2-theory, they are skeptical since there are indeed no report at all regarding Russia exporting AL-31F-M2 technology to China and even less there is no sign that the AL-31F-M2 will be licensed manufactured in China, so they all stick to the FN Series 3.

As for the WS-15 on the J-20, their earliest estimated appearance is at around 2020 and it will be mature at best by 2022.

So long,
Deino

PS: I moved several of these engine-related posts from the PLAAF-thread to the engine-section (or do You prefer the J-20 thread ?)

It turns out @Deino was very correct ... looks like you’re talking to the right guys on weibo

 

[Figaro]

Can someone translate this screenshot? It's pertaining to the WS-15 and WS-10C ... thanks

 

[kuge]

Can someone translate this screenshot? It's pertaining to the WS-15 and WS-10C ... thanks

"15's exhaust nozzle should look similar to the current ws-10c's. I saw they mentioned quite alike."

more or less similar, TVC is invisible.

 

[Figaro]

Interesting article about WS-15 (not explicitly mentioned). I wonder what the two engines at the bottom are ... ?

I wonder what engines are these two ... Taihang?

 

[Figaro]

WS-10B bench test

 

[Deino]

WS-10B bench test

Why do You think so ?? Only since Sina post it? Sometimes they are not even able to identify a certain aircraft type and now only since they claim so? Come on ....

 

[Deino]

Anyway it’s a Taihang ... I think the source of the photo said WS-10B. They didn’t make it up; the source of photo said so. Regardless, the WS-10A looks similar to WS-10B ... so they could be wrong

My point is only that SINA says so much on nearly everything and is barely a highly reliable source. Even more that image is indeed clearly a WS-10 looks so much dated - Your WS-10 and even more the test-stand posted in #690 looks more modern - that it is more likely a very early Taihang test.

I only beg You to be more careful and not blindly copy-pasting anything from Sina ...

Deino

 

[Deino]

but I’m telling you that Sina did not take the photo. Sina quoted the source of photo as saying that it was the WS-10B; it wasn’t based on their own judgement. Now if the source of the photo was wrong, then that’s not Sina’s fault.

Sorry, but that's a lame argument. If I publish anything and it is BS who's the one to blame? Me, the author - in that case Sina - who did not check properly or the original even less reliable source? IMO it is a clear sign of bad journalism ... a point You just blamed the guys at Nationalinterest or David Axe.

My point is You can nearly find anything at Sina ... sometimes quite good and accurate reports and sometimes pure fan-reports, rumours and hype.

It's like looking for mushrooms in the wood: You find some fine and delicate but also poison ones. And who's to blame if You pick them? ... surely not the forest.


Deino

 

[Figaro]

Sorry, but that's a lame argument. If I publish anything and it is BS who's the one to blame? Me, the author - in that case Sina - who did not check properly or the original even less reliable source? IMO it is a clear sign of bad journalism ... a point You just blamed the guys at Nationalinterest or David lAxe.

My point is You can nearly find anything at Sina ... sometimes quite good and accurate reports and sometimes pure fan-reports, rumours and hype.

It's like looking for mushrooms in the wood: You find some fine and delicate but also poison ones. And who's to blame if You pick them? ... surely not the forest.


Deino

Instead of attacking Sina or the picture source’s credentials, can actually you disprove that it is a WS-10B? I agree that Sina often makes mistakes, but what if they actually quoted it right this time? Claiming that the engine in question is not a WS-10B just by attacking Sina’s credentials is not a strong argument. And how do we know that the source Sina quoted is not reliable? Even you admitted that Sina is “sometimes quite good and accurate”