Chinese ace software competition: But why Indian coders are getting hired?

[Viper0011.]

Chinese are Russian frequently top all STEMI competition. Below are IT Oylmpic 2014 gold medalist. There are at least 11 or probably 13 Chinese (the Thai could be Chinese). There are only 2 Indians.

There is no such thing that "Indians are smarter". Many have worked for me and with me. They are good, smart people but then there are many that are average and below average like everyone else.

The "smart" image is created inside the US as what we bring to the US on technical visas are the top cream of India's top schools. Plus the US has been helping India bring its middle class up, as a hedge against the Chinese (which won't work as the US was lied to, when the time comes, India will tell us to stay away and won't do shiit as the Chinese are next door and they'd have better trade relations). So the US calls it the "strategic alliance", the Indians call is, "lets milk the US for as long as we can". Only time will tell how Indians will really pan out. So far, they are in it for themselves, not for any "strategic partnership" IMO.

 

[xunzi]

But since Chinese are best coders apparently, why do they need to steal other's work and reverse engineer at all? They should be able to do things on their own!

From the time mankind set foot on earth, learning from others and improved upon that works had been the foundation of advancement. The West did it, so why can't we? The key is first the willingness to learn and two, to change that work into something more efficient and excited. Indians are only capable of learning but are not good at improving on that work. This is why the West are not afraid of selling you high-tech stuff. They even outsource coding works to you because most Indians are just follower and only instruct to do what is being said. The Chinese, on the other hand, we will look into their code and attempt to make it better. That is what the West fear from us because they used to do that to advance themselves. It is also explain why most Indians prefer to work for big tech companies while Chinese prefer to self-develop and start up new tech firms in Silicon Valley.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

As a doctoral student in a prestigious university in the United States, and as one who has collaborated in graduate-level (published) research ...

And I say this as a Japanese. I prefer to work with South Asians and collaboration in academic journals.

If I may ask by way of curiosity, what broad area does your dissertation subscribe?

 

[Viper0011.]

No, it is not that. You cannot ignore that there are language and communication issues that render it a weakness. .

If I could make you listen to first generation Indians who came here for technical / smart work in mid nineties, you'd be shocked if you got two words out of a sentence to make sense. But the call center business there has started accent reduction courses in India, which helps in overcoming the language barrier. Any country can set that up, its just a few million dollars per school.....

 

[Aepsilons]

There is no such thing that "Indians are smarter". Many have worked for me and with me. They are good, smart people but then there are many that are average and below average like everyone else.

The "smart" image is created inside the US as what we bring to the US on technical visas are the top cream of India's top schools. Plus the US has been helping India bring its middle class up, as a hedge against the Chinese (which won't work as the US was lied to, when the time comes, India will tell us to stay away and won't do shiit as the Chinese are next door and they'd have better trade relations). So the US calls it the "strategic alliance", the Indians call is, "lets milk the US for as long as we can". Only time will tell how Indians will really pan out. So far, they are in it for themselves, not for any "strategic partnership" IMO.

In the practicality aspect of industry and research, it is not always about "who is smarter than who", it is about who can utilize their innate strengths to complete a task in regards to structural and organizational constraints. Critical to this is operator adaptability. And in regards to adaptability, this is a multi-variate theme.

If I may ask by way of curiosity, what broad area does your dissertation subscribe?

Neuroscience, Psychometrics, Quantitative Analytics. And I collaborate regularly with doctoral colleagues specialized in Economics, Industrial Engineering, Cognitive Psychology.

If I could make you listen to first generation Indians who came here for technical / smart work in mid nineties, you'd be shocked if you got two words out of a sentence to make sense. But the call center business there has started accent reduction courses in India, which helps in overcoming the language barrier. Any country can set that up, its just a few million dollars per school.....

I'm not talking about menial jobs like call centers. I'm talking and specifically referring to doctoral-level academic research.

There is a dichotomy of a difference between the two.

Thanks.

 

[Genesis]

I notice that East Asian grad students tend to refrain from voicing out possible "negative" issues for the fear of causing ire. This is a weakness.

I was like that, lol. The many project classes, and real world experience quickly changed that.

OK please close the thread. A person in it who is the op, cannot realise this that IT industry is not about winning coding competition.
That's why Indians are in it industry whereas his top coder gor rejected

I'm not sure what the coding competition is, but I have noticed a pattern of racial stereotyping by the OP, as if race actually matters, it's not deep down we are all the same, we are the same period. The same problems China has, India has, and Americans and Japanese had. Not coincidence.

As I said, can't you have a frontend guy who can talk English ? It's not a hard feat. I interact with many Chinese people on daily basis, and I don't have a problem in communicating with them. I know guys in my firm, who can talk English, Spanish and French at the same time. Yes, they are paid amply for that.

It's more than that, maybe you are not in the industry, I actually am, it would take too long to explain the details of it and I don't like to talk work, so let's just agree to disagree.

Let me finish off by saying 30% planning, 20% coding, 40% documentation and 10% testing, the percentages varies based on the project, but the coding is never the main task.

 

[Viper0011.]

In the practicality aspect of industry and research, it is not always about "who is smarter than who", it is about who can utilize their innate strengths to complete a task in regards to structural and organizational constraints. Critical to this is operator adaptability. And in regards to adaptability, this is a multi-variate theme.

Neuroscience, Psychometrics, Quantitative Analytics. And I collaborate regularly with doctoral colleagues specialized in Economics, Industrial Engineering, Cognitive Psychology.

I could tell I was speaking to someone who is either in or has a PHD or hangs out with them a lot. Dude, you overly complicated my post. Every human has brains and adaptability. Its silly to think that Indians are more adaptable and Chinese are not or the Russians are not.
If you think you are talking to an internet warrior, you are mistaken. Neuroscience and Psychometrics and Quantitative Analytic (or predictive and statistical analysis) and Industrial Engineering are all good names without a use here. Using big names to qualify the silly content in the post doesn't make it sound like a great post. Just like I can't put lipstick on a pig and call that pretty!

 

[my2cents]

As a doctoral student in a prestigious university in the United States, and as one who has collaborated in graduate-level (published) research with colleagues who are also post-docs and happen to be of South Asian origin, I can say that without a doubt one of the hallmarks of South Asians is their adept nature to be highly adaptive to any environment. You name it. I've worked with Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans --- their proficiency in the English Language, their team-work and team-oriented nature , their efficiency in communicating concepts and design as well as thematic variance in research is a strength for them. Whilst many of the doctoral colleagues I have worked with who are from Japan, Korea and China have trouble in the English Language, I can see the difference in that the East Asian students tend to refrain from communicating issues for the sake of completing their specific objective, the South Asians whom I've worked with (in fact 2 of the current post-docs whom I'm collaborating with on a new journal article are South Asians) do not refrain from communicating and voicing out issues affecting research either it be issues in data collections, issues with participant activity. I notice that East Asian grad students tend to refrain from voicing out possible "negative" issues for the fear of causing ire. This is a weakness.

Let me reiterate again, that one of they key factors going for South Asians is their language capabilities , and high adaptability.


And I say this as a Japanese. I prefer to work with South Asians and collaboration in academic journals.

May be it is cultural thing for east Asians to be conformists while south Asians tend to be outspoken.

 

[Aepsilons]

I could tell I was speaking to someone who is either in or has a PHD or hangs out with them a lot. Dude, you overly complicated my post. Every human has brains and adaptability. Its silly to think that Indians are more adaptable and Chinese are not or the Russians are not.
If you think you are talking to an internet warrior, you are mistaken. Neuroscience and Psychometrics and Quantitative Analytic (or predictive and statistical analysis) and Industrial Engineering are all good names without a use here. Using big names to qualify the silly content in the post doesn't make it sound like a great post. Just like I can't put lipstick on a pig and call that pretty!

I'm merely vouchsafing for South Asians in Academia as I had specifically pointed out in my first post in this thread. Since the OP posits his opinion and the context of this thread has been to lambast South Asians with some kind of motive of referring to some kind of inferiority when compared to East Asians. When we all know that is just simply unjustified considering the number of South Asian graduate / doctoral students. Of course I offered my opinion and personal experience in collaborating with / working with South Asian Academics.

 

[Kaniska]

I have seen the worst coder (Indian) get hired while the top coder get rejected by a team of mostly Indians interviewers.

On one more occasion, one Middle east colleague (he got in also) was very angry why this Indian get in (Google), while his esteemed colleagues get turn down.

Software engineers know the strength of our colleagues.

You arguments are slowly getting personal in nature towards Indias...Here is the fact...Bussinessman does not have any religion or they do politics..For them money is everything...So all the stakeholders who are paying money to the developers...are definitly not fool enough to spend money on Indian developer where they do not getting any return on investement...SO rest of your argument is a show of frustration that you are not able to digest the fact that Indian people do well in IT....

 

[Lux de Veritas]

I was like that, lol. The many project classes, and real world experience quickly changed that.



I'm not sure what the coding competition is, but I have noticed a pattern of racial stereotyping by the OP, as if race actually matters, it's not deep down we are all the same, we are the same period. The same problems China has, India has, and Americans and Japanese had. Not coincidence.


It's more than that, maybe you are not in the industry, I actually am, it would take too long to explain the details of it and I don't like to talk work, so let's just agree to disagree.

Let me finish off by saying 30% planning, 20% coding, 40% documentation and 10% testing, the percentages varies based on the project, but the coding is never the main task.

Try getting into a team of idiots and get surrounded by someone who cannot code in your software team. Its such a pleasure to be surrounded by genius. They get you real fast.

 

[Aepsilons]

May be it is cultural thing for east Asians to be conformists while south Asians tend to be outspoken.

I think that is definitely a legit independent variable that influences performance. And this reflects in hiring.

 

[Kaniska]

Language and it's very easy to train Indians(especially south indians) compared to other ethnicity .

PS:South Indian are far better in logical thinking than North Indians. I have trained both of them

Do not generalise or segregate INDIAN people based on North and South....In general, people of North are more enterprenure in nature where people of South are good in Math,Science and Technology...So you will find more South people in the IT area.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

You arguments are slowly getting personal in nature towards Indias...Here is the fact...Bussinessman does not have any religion or they do politics..For them money is everything...So all the stakeholders who are paying money to the developers...are definitly fool enough to spend money on Indian developer where they do not getting any return on investement...SO rest of your argument is a show of frustration that you are not able to digest the fact that Indian people do well in IT....

I just want to open a thread to discuss why so many Indians software programmers and why Indians fared so badly in software engineering competition.

Something is fishy.

 

[nForce]

It's more than that, maybe you are not in the industry, I actually am, it would take too long to explain the details of it and I don't like to talk work, so let's just agree to disagree.

Let me finish off by saying 30% planning, 20% coding, 40% documentation and 10% testing, the percentages varies based on the project, but the coding is never the main task.

I am in the industry where we have to talk to people across the globe. Nobody can learn all the languages used in the World. That's why resources are hired accordingly, and they are trained for the purpose. Tell me, why Chinese Electronics industry is flourishing ? Do they talk all Chinese there ? Or do they have only Chinese clients ? Apply that analogy to other sectors. And yes, as you said, after that, if you still don't understand, then we can agree to disagree.