China's Uighurs fight for rights

[Logic note]

disagreements in Decision Making in a democratic process
may arise from variations in construal that lead the same stimulus to be perceived
as different objects of judgment by different parties (or by the same individual on
different occasions). Given the multidimensional nature of democracy, different
individuals will likely conceptualize it in alternative ways that, in turn, will suggest
different vulnerabilities and threats.

In any Democratic Function the Decisions are subjected to long and lengthy process since the power is not centralised . any individual can approach the differnt power body ( executive or judiciary ) and then local procedure of decision making takes time . for Example Attempts to finalise a nuclear fuel deal with the US have been bogged down in lengthy arguments between the government and its Communist allies
In Autocratic bodies , since power is centralised , decision making is faster .

yes there are exception , in certain cases autocratic bodies have taken time to decide something .

 

[kvLin]

disagreements in Decision Making in a democratic process
may arise from variations in construal that lead the same stimulus to be perceived
as different objects of judgment by different parties (or by the same individual on
different occasions). Given the multidimensional nature of democracy, different
individuals will likely conceptualize it in alternative ways that, in turn, will suggest
different vulnerabilities and threats.

In any Democratic Function the Decisions are subjected to long and lengthy process since the power is not centralised . any individual can approach the differnt power body ( executive or judiciary ) and then local procedure of decision making takes time . for Example Attempts to finalise a nuclear fuel deal with the US have been bogged down in lengthy arguments between the government and its Communist allies
In Autocratic bodies , since power is centralised , decision making is faster .

yes there are exception , in certain cases autocratic bodies have taken time to decide something .

China had taken almost 40 years (gasp!) on argumentation before decision done for the three gorges dam.

20 years for South-to-North water diversion, and the west line project was finally abandoned. not for rejections from insisting chinese experts and environmentalists, your Brahmaputra River might even be meeting with drought period in future winters.

10 years for the national theater.

5 years for new traffic law.

and public hearing has become a vey frequent and popular procedures of the people's National Congress (CPNC) before a certain law or rule to release. where not only big projects but also small items like price increase of bus tickets is to be fully verified before they go to practice.

you wont believe it in China, it is today's China.

 

[Logic note]

Freedom has to be compromised. As stated before, freedom isn't universal. If you grant freedom to terrorists, ordinary people don't have freedom to live peacefully!

I am surprised at your lack of basic knowledge about law and order for a decent society. Law and order are meant to limit freedom.

Where do you Live ? China .I M surprised at you basic knowledge of Human ethics
I am sorry to say that we are discussing Freedom and you are totally ignorant about Freedom.

Freedom is Universal and the basic need of Humanity .
Have you heard of Conscience and Ethics ? Every Human has it and personal freedom is not right to kill others . but your right to choose , without harming others .

Law and order is not to limit freedom - it shows your foolishness
Law and order is to protect your freedom .

To me, the basic human rights is the rights to survive, the rights to be educated and to develop. Before those rights are accomplished, anything else is empty. For instance, how can a person dying of starvation to run political activities?! How can an illiterate eloquently debate with his opponents? However, while priority is set for those human rights to be in place, it doesn't mean that other types of human rights have to be limited completely.

Shows your ignorance about Humanity .
Why do ppl die fighting for their freedom ?

Again, if terrorists have their "personal freedom" or "Individuals right to express" unchecked, common people will have no rights or freedom to live in peace.

If your type of people constitutes majority in your country, it probably explains why terrorist organizations fourishing in your country:

Thats shows your lack of Basic understanding . Terrorists are not using their personal freedom but their brutality and narrow mindedness . and they exists every where Even in China .
Law and order is to protect Freedom from Terrorist
you are dong the same foolishness . showing me the list of Problem .. which exists even In CHina .I think we are discussing the same probelm

I stop short calling you arrogant while you proclaim that you understand democracy: democracy is about compromise of interest among mainstream societies with some consideration of the unprivileged through law and orders respected by all, including compromise of individual freedom. It is not about to exploit egoism to the extreme!

Lol , no wonder ,with your twisted sense of understanding , you have communist in CHina

 

[gpit]

Where do you Live ? China .

Funny! Will that help your case?

Does your intelligence need to be called in question of being able to recognize the flag of the strongest democracy in the world?

I M surprised at you basic knowledge of Human ethics
I am sorry to say that we are discussing Freedom and you are totally ignorant about Freedom.

Freedom is Universal and the basic need of Humanity .
Have you heard of Conscience and Ethics ? Every Human has it and personal freedom is not right to kill others . but your right to choose , without harming others .

Law and order is not to limit freedom - it shows your foolishness
Law and order is to protect your freedom .

Fortunately, ignorant or not of freedom is not defined by you.

You failed to recognize that there are all kinds of freedoms.

Right to choose but not harming others is a self-constraint of freedom, through education, by morality, and by law.

If criminals can’t do that, law will be in place, and prison is a stage of implementing the law to ensure social order. A prison is a place in which individuals are physically confined or interned and usually deprived of a range of personal freedoms. Thus, righteous freedoms are ensured.

Repeat: if you don’t limit freedom to terrorists, terrorists will limit the freedom of ordinary people.

Shows your ignorance about Humanity .
Why do ppl die fighting for their freedom ?

Majority of the people don’t die for whatever if basic Hierarchy of Needs, such as freedom to survive, is met. This is not without limited exceptions though.

Thats shows your lack of Basic understanding . Terrorists are not using their personal freedom but their brutality and narrow mindedness . and they exists every where Even in China .

Terrorists exercise their freedom called freedom to kill/destroy, if you never thought about it before.

Just let you know that the “patriotic act” in US is enacted in trying to contain terrorists’ freedom by infringing the freedom (of privacy, for instance) of common people.

Show me data and facts that terrorists exist everywhere in China if you dare to live up to the credibility of a grown-up, or I’d better waste no more time with you.

Law and order is to protect Freedom from Terrorist
you are dong the same foolishness . showing me the list of Problem .. which exists even In CHina .I think we are discussing the same probelm

I repeat: law will be in place, and prison is a stage of implementing the law to ensure the order. A prison is a place in which individuals are physically confined or interned and usually deprived of a range of personal freedoms. Thus, righteous freedoms (a subset of a complete set of freedoms) are ensured.

To me, foolishness is a denial of fact, or being indulged in fantasy, or judging truthfulness based on nationality or country of abode. If you entertain an opposite definition, which is OK.

Lol , no wonder ,with your twisted sense of understanding , you have communist in CHina

I think most Chinese is probably happy with CPC for what CPC has done so far, since China develops pretty well in general. That is probably much to your disappointment, which I understand with pity and sympathy…

 

[Logic note]

Funny! Will that help your case?

Does your intelligence need to be called in question of being able to recognize the flag of the strongest democracy in the world?F

Subtlety Has Left you .. lol
My Dear Friend .. What I meant was , that you don't sound like someone from the land of Tao and Confucius .

Fortunately, ignorant or not of freedom is not defined by you.
You failed to recognize that there are all kinds of freedoms.
Right to choose but not harming others is a self-constraint of freedom, through education, by morality, and by law.
If criminals can’t do that, law will be in place, and prison is a stage of implementing the law to ensure social order. A prison is a place in which individuals are physically confined or interned and usually deprived of a range of personal freedoms. Thus, righteous freedoms are ensured.
Repeat: if you don’t limit freedom to terrorists, terrorists will limit the freedom of ordinary people.

My Dear Friend , there is no Three Kind of Freedom ..There is only one freedom

Stealing , Killing or any ethically negative Act of human behaviour is not expression of freedom, its is a disease and jails are suppose to treat him
Goodness is in human consciousness .. it does not require others to tell you . A good man will be good man , wherever you put him .

Show me data and facts that terrorists exist everywhere in China if you dare to live up to the credibility of a grown-up, or I’d better waste no more time with you.

Yes Terrorist exist everywhere , even in China .. sorry if you took it otherwise .

To me, foolishness is a denial of fact, or being indulged in fantasy, or judging truthfulness based on nationality or country of abode. If you entertain an opposite definition, which is OK.

Foolishness - denial of facts .- no denial of true facts
Indulgence in Fantasy is not foolishness .. it can even be the step towards creativity .. if followed with hard and smart work .
Judging truth fullness - truth is eternal and universal . it cant change with nationality .

I think most Chinese is probably happy with CPC for what CPC has done so far, since China develops pretty well in general. That is probably much to your disappointment, which I understand with pity and sympathy…

Probably - Lol
and I think its outsiders who feel pity and sympathy ..

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

We Han Chinese and Uyghur usually talk about Human right in this forum Uyghur Online

There are many Moderators or Members from different nationalities of Chinese :

Han, Uyghur, Kazakh, Mongol, Tibetan, Hui people, Yi people, Korean, Manchus, Miao (Hmong), Kyrgyz, Salar (Turkmen), Zhaung, etc.

 

[ThunderCat]

Muslims or better 'Pan-Islamists' are the worst hypocrites when it comes to treatment of minorities. They have the balls to condemn other countries for the treatment of their Muslim minorities but have a bad record such as Darfur, Kurdistan, Balochistan and so on.

Pakistani 'Pan-Islamists' have told me it's because Muslims have no right to break away Muslim countries. Well let me tell you, being a Muslim is no right to mistreat someone else as if you somehow 'own' them. Does being a Muslim give you a free pass to walk into another Muslims home and treat it like you own it? Does being a Muslim allow you to treat other Muslims like your 'property' while condemning non-Muslims for doing something similar?

'Pan-Islamists', commonly Pakistani ones, are some of the most logically fallacious and tribalist people ever.

Let's also not forget that China is not targeting Muslims per say. There are similar human rights issues in Tibet, but it's not a Muslim area.

Minorities all over China have issues, but only uyghurs just happen to be Muslim.

I don't think what's happening in Xian/Uyghuristan is right, but who am I as a Pakistani to condemn it? We do similar horrendous things in balochistan with our killings and denying the Baloch the rights to their own resources as well as killing families of suspected separatists, including women and children.

What about our Turkish brothers/sisters and their terrible human rights records Kurdistan? Are they justified in doing it because the victims also happen to be Muslim?

If that's so what happens if I walked into someone's house without permission just because they're also Muslim and confiscated their property because i'm Muslim like them.

What if the Chinese government and military converted to Islam for three months and did genocide in East Turkestan and then converted back out of Islam after that duration? Would you 'Pan-Islamist' tribalists mind then?

I personally think Pakistan and other Muslims countries should clean up their own homes from abuse before lecturing others on human rights issues.

My personal belief is more autonomy will help defuse these kinds of situations regarding minorities.

China can win support from Uyghurs once they grant autonomy in that region as well as Tibet. Pakistan needs to do the same for it's provinces as well as Turkey in Kurdistan and other Muslim countries doing the same.

 

[Beast]

@Deino, please move this thread to appropriate place. Thanks.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Nice bump. How's their "fight" going these days?