China's Island Building and International Law

[William Hung]

Black, you are right. It seem that Vietnamese has more freedom to express their opinion, compare to Chinese of PRC.
We are living in Vietnam, and we could have opposing opinion.

The Blogger fled to USA with allowance of Vietnam govt where most of activists could be welcomed by Vietnamese community.

Vietnam and USA are dealing so many in secret.

Of course you would believe anything they claim or say eventhough even they cant deny the fate of the "viet warrior" who have been "taken in" by their government, on the other hand it is quite common for many of not most nation to tolerate nationalistic individuals spreading emotional messages, this has proven to be quite useful from time to times, although few nation would go as far as arresting those individual for such particular reason. On the bright side this only proves how efficient viet government is, use those warriors to raise nationalism and arrest them when neighbours are displeased, unlike anywhere else "patriots" in vietland is being used to maximum efficiency, truely they must be glad to serve their national interest in every way possible. who knows maybe they secretly will enjoy a luxurious life in prison as reward

I will let you two, @Huaren and @BoQ77 to argue over this.

My shift is over. My supervisor is happy with my work and said he's going to pay my lunch.

I am off to eat.

 

[kyle Chiang]

Yes, the UNCLOS do have authority because both China and the Philippines have ratified it's law. You have missed out on all my discussions with C-Dragon.

The bottom line is, it will all depends on the decision of the tribunal. If the tribunal decides that it does have jurisdiction over the dispute, and if it decide that the Philippines case are based on facts and laws, then the tribunal's arbitration ruling will be legally binding (but not enforced).

On the other hand, if the tribunal decide that it doesnt have any jurisdiction over the dispute, or if they rule against the Philippines, then that arbitration will be legally binding as well.

Right now, China say they dont have jurisdiction because those Islands are land and UNCLOS only deals with water. The Philippines say no, those "land" are only rocks and reefs so UNCLOS do have jurisdiction. China say our additional clause made in 2006 will exempt us from any arbitration ruling. The Philippines said no, that clause doesnt apply to the ongoing case.

So the tribunal will have to make a decision on this first, whether they have jurisdiction over the dispute or not. If they decide that they do have jurisdiction over it, then their arbitration will be legally binding. What you have is a two step procedure.

So you have to wait and see what their decisions are.

You can confirm this on the official UNCLOS website. They have Chinese translations.



But @BoQ77 and @Soryu and most other Viet members are currently living in VN.

China and PH are playing a football game,PH ask a basketball referee firstly to judge who get out of line.When China say no,PH say "you can't say no,the ball is on my hand!I just need justice!" I was shocked by Philippines' wisdom and your understanding.

OMG!Does Philippines have think-tanks and international lawyers?Why don't Aquino sweep away the kidnapping groups sooner firstly?

Finally,Philippines never claim for these islands from 1887 to 1999 after China's claim in 1935 and Chinese gov take Huangyan island into our map in 1947.Chines gov claim that again in 1987.

And you can also learn the contracts such as <US and Spain's Paris contrcts in 1898><US and Spain's Washington contracts in 1990> <US and UK's cotracts in 1930>,they all designate these islands as Chinese islands.Although these contracts has no authority nowadays,they can tell you about the history.

It's really wasting time to argue this.You will never admit Chinese standpoints.If Philippine want loot our territory,ONLY BY WAR.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

My shift is over. My supervisor is happy with my work and said he's going to pay my lunch.

I am off to eat.

Enjoy your Vietnamese noodles.

Even I have to admit that Vietnamese noodles are f*cking amazing.

 

[Carlosa]

Black, you are right. It seem that Vietnamese has more freedom to express their opinion, compare to Chinese of PRC.
We are living in Vietnam, and we could have opposing opinion.Vietnam and USA are dealing so many in secret.

I live in Vietnam and I also spend plenty of time in China and I can definitely say that there is a hell of a lot more freedom of expression in Vietnam. Of course everything depends on how sensitive it is what you are saying.

The controls of speech and internet in China are second to none. Its the ultimate police state.

 

[William Hung]

Enjoy your Vietnamese noodles.

Even I have to admit that Vietnamese noodles are f*cking amazing.

No man, Vietnamese steamed fish is amazing. Eating that then smoking my cigar is great.

China and PH are playing a football game,PH ask a basketball referee firstly to judge who get out of line.When China say no,PH say "you can't say no,the ball is on my hand!I just need justice!" I was shocked by Philippines' wisdom and your understanding.

OMG!Does Philippines have think-tanks and international lawyers?Why don't Aquino sweep away the kidnapping groups sooner firstly?

Sorry to say this but I dont understand your cryptic words. What is the basketball referee doing in a football game?

Finally,Philippines never claim for these islands from 1887 to 1999 after China's claim in 1935 and Chinese gov take Huangyan island into our map in 1947.Chines gov claim that again in 1987.

And you can also learn the contracts such as <US and Spain's Paris contrcts in 1898><US and Spain's Washington contracts in 1990> <US and UK's cotracts in 1930>,they all designate these islands as Chinese islands.Although these contracts has no authority nowadays,they can tell you about the history.

All what you've said above has no meaning because China will not participate in the tribunal to argue for China's own case. China will not make any defence at all.

Like I said it will be up to the tribunal to decide if they have jurisdiction over the dispute or not. If they accept China's position and decide that they dont have any jurisdiction, then the case will be closed and Philippines will need to go home.

But if the tribunal accept the Philippines' position and decide that the tribunal does have jurisdiction, then they will continue to open the case. The Philippines will be at an advantage here because China will not be there to defend itself. Only the Philippines will be there to present its case.

And any arbitration ruling the tribunal make, will be legally binding, eventhough China did not participate. They will have the legal authority over both China and the Philippines because both countries are signatories to UNCLOS.

Now you know how smart the US is for not joining UNCLOS.

It's really wasting time to argue this.You will never admit Chinese standpoints.If Philippine want loot our territory,ONLY BY WAR.

It doesnt matter which standpoints you or I accept. All that matters are which standpoints do those panel of arbitars in the tribunal accept. Their decisions are legally binding.

After that, you can either accept the tribunal's decisions or stick your head in the sand.

 

[sword1947]

Vietnam could get foreigner contractors to build military bases for rent there, as they have several real islands in Spratlys.

Hurry up, please

your voice is the voice of imperialism, not reflect the international laws that China signed.

some useless words, why you guys so care for?

 

[jkroo]

It's amazing they are talking law.
It's a good step. Keep talking, we are busy.

 

[kyle Chiang]

No man, Vietnamese steamed fish is amazing. Eating that then smoking my cigar is great.



Sorry to say this but I dont understand your cryptic words. What is the basketball referee doing in a football game?



All what you've said above has no meaning because China will not participate in the tribunal to argue for China's own case. China will not make any defence at all.

Like I said it will be up to the tribunal to decide if they have jurisdiction over the dispute or not. If they accept China's position and decide that they dont have any jurisdiction, then the case will be closed and Philippines will need to go home.

But if the tribunal accept the Philippines' position and decide that the tribunal does have jurisdiction, then they will continue to open the case. The Philippines will be at an advantage here because China will not be there to defend itself. Only the Philippines will be there to present its case.

And any arbitration ruling the tribunal make, will be legally binding, eventhough China did not participate. They will have the legal authority over both China and the Philippines because both countries are signatories to UNCLOS.

Now you know how smart the US is for not joining UNCLOS.



It doesnt matter which standpoints you or I accept. All that matters are which standpoints do those panel of arbitars in the tribunal accept. Their decisions are legally binding.

After that, you can either accept the tribunal's decisions or stick your head in the sand.

There is a Chinese proverb of Hunan "油盐不进"，it is very suit you.

 

[jkroo]

There is a Chinese proverb of Hunan "油盐不进"，it is very suit you.

湖南人？呵呵，幸会，幸会。满哥哪里混？

 

[Soryu]

But @BoQ77 and @Soryu and most other Viet members are currently living in VN.

1. About UNCLOS and international laws ... well, we're all know that PRC play their trick in every way to gain their advantage in dispute case, in case with Philippines, PRC 're simply don't care because her neighbour too weak.
With Vietnam (HY-981 oil rig), they used more muscle and media propaganda, cause they know we will not back off like Philippines.

2. Most of activists were arrested 'cause they're anti Communist Government, not because anti-China.
Anti-China was trick of them to gain more support from ppl. Look at anti Japanese riot in 2012, many shop, market, company put on their band-roll about anti-Japanese for PR and sales ... LOL.

 

[bolo]

Again I'll have to repeat myself. You do not understand the legal definition of "binding." Please do some research on it.

It's like when you agreed to take up citizenship of a country. You are then subject to the laws of that country. In other words, you are binded to that country's laws. If you break any of that law, you can be prosecuted by their court. You can refuse to participate and defend yourself, but you are still legally binded by the court's ruling.

You can reject and ignore the court's ruling, but the court will have a mechanism to enforce that ruling (policemen will come and drag you into prison).

This is similar to China and the Arbitration case. China has legally agreed to bind itself to the UNCLOS. The International Arbitral Tribunal is a part of it and runs under the UNCLOS. So China can refuse to participate in the case but the tribunal's ruling would still be binding.

The only difference is that when China ignores the ruling, the tribunal does not have any mechanism to enforce the ruling. But it still mean that China has binded itself to a convention, but then turn around and rejects that convention (i.e. flip flop).

It seems like you're lacking in knowledge in even basic legal terminology.

If you signed a legal contract, then you are automatically "legally binded" to that contract. This is a basic legal concept. Simply, a dictionary can give you this definition.

China has signed a "legal contract" to become a member of UNCLOS, which mean that China has legally binded itself to it.

The tribunal under which the Philippines is pursuing it's case, was legally established by the UNCLOS. And since both China and the Philippines are binded to the UNCLOS, the tribunal will have legal jurisdiction over the case and dispute.

Dude, since you know the UNCLOS so well you should bring this up and launch a suit against China. I'm sure those international lawyers who deal with the maritime laws are just stupid qualified lawyers since they don't "understand' the UNCLOS but some anonymous dude on the internet is so verse in it.

What international law? I don't know.

China is the law.

Along with the other four permanent UN members.
They do what they want without much consequences.

I live in Vietnam and I also spend plenty of time in China and I can definitely say that there is a hell of a lot more freedom of expression in Vietnam. Of course everything depends on how sensitive it is what you are saying.

The controls of speech and internet in China are second to none. Its the ultimate police state.

You lived in China, what in another universe?

Try harder to lie next time.

 

[Carlosa]

You lived in China, what in another universe?
Try harder to lie next time.

Oh really? You know me that well huh? I spend several months in Shenzhen every year, Dongguan to be more specific.
Just for business, I wouldn't care to be there otherwise.

 

[William Hung]

There is a Chinese proverb of Hunan "油盐不进"，it is very suit you.

My friend I do not read Chinese so I dont understand your proverb.

Dude, since you know the UNCLOS so well you should bring this up and launch a suit against China. I'm sure those international lawyers who deal with the maritime laws are just stupid qualified lawyers since they don't "understand' the UNCLOS but some anonymous dude on the internet is so verse in it.

U mad bro? I hope you're not mad. I just make this thread for constructive discussions.

Don't worry about those international lawyers and expert arbiters. They are very competent and highly qualified. I mean, they are competent enough that Chinese leaders have signed to UNCLOS and entrusted them authority to deal with sea issue.

Stupid US, why they no join UNCLOS? why they dont trust those international lawyers and experts?

Along with the other four permanent UN members.
They do what they want without much consequences.

And the number 1 superpower today, the USA, did not subject itself to UNCLOS laws. Thats the thinking of a superpower. They reject UNCLOS. Why did China accept UNCLOS? Dont want to be a superpower?

It's amazing they are talking law.
It's a good step. Keep talking, we are busy.

If you had instructed your members to study something useful like international law, then perhaps you will have something more intelligent to argue against me, instead of sitting in the corner and grumbling.

 

[bolo]

My friend I do not read Chinese so I dont understand your proverb.

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U mad bro? I hope you're not mad. I just make this thread for constructive discussions.






I

I believe you are an expert with maritime laws. More proficient than any high paid international lawyers. More knowledgeable than the people who were involved drafting the laws. You are the last bastion of hope for Vietnam and Pinoys.

 

[William Hung]

I believe you are an expert with maritime laws. More proficient than any high paid international lawyers. More knowledgeable than the people who were involved drafting the laws. You are the last bastion of hope for Vietnam and Pinoys.

Thank you for your kind words, that really means a lot to me. I love you bro.