China's H-6K bombers fly beyond the First Island Chain

[TaiShang]

Be noted that strategic of China is not military competition with US and its allies.
USSR has proven it is wrong.
China is now preparing for minimum defense power against potential US invasion.
If China has the capacity to block US out of first island chain, that is pretty enough.
Globally China has no interest nor capacity to challenge US on miltary.
We welcome US to be the 'world police' while we prefer to be a 'free rider'.

Exactly. We support US war against ISIS.

China is not capable of taking on them. That's why we admit US is so strong and leave all the policing job to them.

China is a developing country, mind you people. It is not a big, powerful, scary dragon. It is capabilities are rather limited. US military power, on the other, is enormous and I am sure they can take on literally everybody on the planet. US needs to spend and keep the capabilities to ensure freedom of anything and everything. Besides, US does have some bloody capable allies like the UK and Canada.

Our focus is to achieve a moderately developed society status by 2020.

 

[terranMarine]

Exactly. We support US war against ISIS.

China is not capable of taking on them. That's why we admit US is so strong and leave all the policing job to them.

China is a developing country, mind you people. It is not a big, powerful, scary dragon. It is capabilities are rather limited. US military power, on the other, is enormous and I am sure they can take on literally everybody on the planet. US needs to spend and keep the capabilities to ensure freedom of anything.

Our focus is to achieve a moderately developed society status by 2020.

We are just a humble freeloader

 

[Beidou2020]

Yeah...Which was awesome...!!! Hundreds of 'stealth' sorties and only one lost. Your PLA leadership got embarrassed at how wrong they were about US. By your childish reasoning, if the loss of one F-117 is so terrible, then why is your PLA reformed to match US by using our standards in everything, down to the uniforms, eh ?


Then it looks like your PLA had a drastic decline since it got whupped by the Vietnamese on the ground and when the PLAAF tried to engage an American aircraft, a lumbering four engine prop jobber, the pilot lost control and collided with the American aircraft.

The only whupping done was by the PLA on the vastly overhyped and overrated US military.

What an embarrassing loss the Korean war was to the US ego. Losing territory to a military that was barely armed and has the audacity to go around claiming to be a 'superpower'.

Some 'superpower' that, losing territory to a volunteer army.
Embarrassing.
Shameful.
Pathetic.

No wonder the US is scared sh*tless about bombing the constructions by China in the SCS knowing what happened the last time the US messed with China in a war.

 

[terranMarine]

The only whupping done was by the PLA on the vastly overhyped and overrated US military.

What an embarrassing loss the Korean war was to the US ego. Losing territory to a military that was barely armed and has the audacity to go around claiming to be a 'superpower'.

Some 'superpower' that, losing territory to a volunteer army.
Embarrassing.
Shameful.
Pathetic.

No wonder the US is scared sh*tless about bombing the constructions by China in the SCS knowing what happened the last time the US messed with China in a war.

They already ran away from bombing DPRK's nuclear facility after news broke out about PLA at the border ready to enter North Korea should the moment of hell breaks out. Because this time South Korea and the US won't be so lucky facing the crazy >1 mln human wave soldiers with our advanced military capabilities and massive troops. Really Seoul isn't that far away, the North Koreans don't require modern weaponry to reach the other side

 

[TaiShang]

Awesome Chinese H-6k bombers


Chinese bombers flied to West Pacific Ocean to conduct drill on May 21, 2015 for the first time. In recent years, the combating ability of Chinese Air Force has improved with updating equipment, researching operation methods and training. Bomber is a kind of deterrence to enemies.(Photo/Kj.81.cn)

 

[proka89]

Of course the F-117 and the B-2 were 'stealthy' over Serbia. We only lost one jet. When we asked Serbia why they managed to shoot down only one, they turned tail and ran.

Yes they were stealthy but not invisible. They were constantly flying on altitudes that were above range of our anti aircraft defence. All missions were also consistently supported with SEAD operations, by F16CJ (Viper Weasel) and EA-6B Prowler, armed with HARM rockets, and carrying AN/ALQ-99, AN/ALQ-149 and AN/ALQ-126 containers. Prowler's flying from USS Theodore Roosevelt where caring two HARM rockets each, but those from Aviano where flying with only jamming equipment, and because of that were paired with F16CJ or Tornado ECR. Typical SEAD group consisted of 2-4 EA-6B and 4-8 F16CJ. For example 22. EFS from Spangdahlem was flying supporting missions for F117A. Those SEAD groups were supported by AWACS, ABCCC and RC-135 aircrafts, which were sending them informations about Serbian anti aircraft defence. And since F 16 CJ were not carrying containers with LANTIRN systems, they were not capable to use laser guided bombs, but they were sending informations to F15E or F16CG aircrafts, which were capable to do DEAD missions with guided or cluster bombs. According to NATO during the war 743 HARM missiles were fired on Serbian forces.

So it's kind of understandable that Serbian air defence had huge problems in this war. They were constantly jammed and hunted by far superior enemy. So they were forced to adopt different mode of operation, or risk to be destroyed in first days of war. So according to this Serbian air defence relied on maneuver, use of decoys and shortened radar transmitting time.... All of this resulted in not so spectacular results when we talk about shooting down of enemy planes. but because of this NATO was forced to use strong SEAD forces through whole war, and to fly on high altitudes, which largely hindered them in finding and destroying Serbian forces on the ground.

For example:

War: Combat flights: SEAD flights: Percent:

Vietnam: 219.407 11.389 5.2%

Desert storm: 68.150 4.326 6.3%

Deliberate force: 2.451 785 32%(Bosnia)

Allied force: 21.111 4.538 21.5%(Serbia)


And when we talk about F117A, he was visible for the Serbian air defence since the beginning of the war. Serbian air defence was not capable to defend the whole country. They were practically defending certain zones. But following the NATO communications we were capable to see that strike groups of F117A were always using the same corridors, so we were able to practically ambush him. One more F117A was damaged during the war (tail damage). Safely landed in Spangdahlem. Some other aircrafts were also damaged. For example two A-10 were hit by MANPADS, but they safely landed. Some 30 UAVs were shot down, and many cruise missiles also.

And one more thing for 78 days our soldiers were fighting against the world most powerful countries. Some of our pilots where flying in a missions of 1 or 2 against dozens of enemy aircrafts. Our ground attack aircrafts were flying support missions while the sky was completely controlled by far superior NATO forces. And yes in the end we lost, not a really big surprise. But we did not turn our tail and ran as you said, we fought and we lost, as simple as that.

 

[gambit]

Yes they were stealthy but not invisible.

The US never said 'invisible'.

When I came on this forum several yrs ago, the word 'invisible' was careless thrown about by everyone. Since then, I have carefully explained, back with indisputable technical sources, on how 'stealth' does not equal to 'invisible', and that official US publications does not use the word 'invisible'. The US government does not control what the press say and if reporters/commentators uses the word 'invisible', nothing we can do about it except to let them know the correct technical terms, which is 'low radar observable'.

But following the NATO communications we were capable to see that strike groups of F117A were always using the same corridors, so we were able to practically ambush him.

And one more thing for 78 days our soldiers were fighting against the world most powerful countries.

Note what you said about how Serbian air defense were able to 'ambush' the F-117. You could not ambush him unless you know of a pattern and in war patterns and routines often lead to death.

The air campaign over Yugoslavia was NOT a US operation. It was a NATO operation and filled with constraints, hence you were able to ambush a flight of F-117s and shot one down. Think about it for a moment, you know of a routine and still you managed only one kill. Dale Zelko reported he dodged at least three missiles. In the military, we call that 'spray and pray'. If whatever Zoltan Dani did was supposedly so good at detecting the F-117s, then more should have been shot down. Not just more F-117s but more of other aircrafts as well. But throughout the entire air campaign, we lost only two aircrafts: one F-16 and one F-117.

Defeating the Serbian air defense was not easy, we will grant you that, but neither was defeating the Iraqi air defense and I have no problems saying that there was no way the Serbs could have lasted 78 days had we implemented a Desert Storm style air campaign in Yugoslavia.

 

[proka89]

The air campaign over Yugoslavia was NOT a US operation. It was a NATO operation and filled with constraints, hence you were able to ambush a flight of F-117s and shot one down. Think about it for a moment, you know of a routine and still you managed only one kill. Dale Zelko reported he dodged at least three missiles. In the military, we call that 'spray and pray'. If whatever Zoltan Dani did was supposedly so good at detecting the F-117s, then more should have been shot down. Not just more F-117s but more of other aircrafts as well. But throughout the entire air campaign, we lost only two aircrafts: one F-16 and one F-117.

I clearly mentioned NATO numerous times in my previous post, and US not even once. We knew about routine, but F117 was shoot down at the beginning of the war, and after that NATO forces were much more cautious. They were constantly flying at altitudes that were above range of our anti aircraft systems. Not the mention that SEAD and DEAD missions were constant threat. So it was not problem to see NATO aircrafts, it was problem to shoot down something that is not in your range ,while you are being constantly jammed and haunted by HARM missiles. Dale Zelko couldn't dodge the three missiles, when only two were fired at him, and the first one was the one that shoot down his plane. That's standard procedure when using S 125 Neva. For example during the war there war 50 launches of S-125 on NATO aircrafts, with 93 missiles fired in total.

250. rbr which shoot down F117 and F16 had 31 launches with 54 rockets in total during the war.

 

[gambit]

I clearly mentioned NATO numerous times in my previous post, and US not even once. We knew about routine, but F117 was shoot down at the beginning of the war, and after that NATO forces were much more cautious. They were constantly flying at altitudes that were above range of our anti aircraft systems. Not the mention that SEAD and DEAD missions were constant threat. So it was not problem to see NATO aircrafts, it was problem to shoot down something that is not in your range ,while you are being constantly jammed and haunted by HARM missiles. Dale Zelko couldn't dodge the three missiles, when only two were fired at him, and the first one was the one that shoot down his plane. That's standard procedure when using S 125 Neva. For example during the war there war 50 launches of S-125 on NATO aircrafts, with 93 missiles fired in total.

250. rbr which shoot down F117 and F16 had 31 launches with 54 rockets in total during the war.

S/DEAD missions were also there in Desert Storm, so there is nothing new here. My point was that since it was a NATO led air campaign, US air power were restrained under NATO rules of engagement. Not so with Desert Storm.

Here is what you do not understand about low radar observability...

It does NOT mean the 'stealth' pilot can have license with enemy radars. He still has to plan ingress/egress routes to avoid radar detection if possible. The goal of 'stealth' is that in the event that the pilot is caught inside a radar beam, it will make difficult, not impossible, for targeting. And when the F-117s were confined to well known routes, the odds of having losses increases no matter how 'stealthy' the jet might be. You can look at the S/DEAD support as necessary because of those NATO restraints.

That is why I said that had this been a Desert Storm style air campaign, Serbian ground forces would not last 78 days. We may even lose more than one F-117 or more of other aircrafts, but the Serbs would not last 78 days.

 

[proka89]

S/DEAD missions were also there in Desert Storm, so there is nothing new here. My point was that since it was a NATO led air campaign, US air power were restrained under NATO rules of engagement. Not so with Desert Storm.

Yes they were but only 6% of all flights were SEAD missions, while above Serbia, 21.5% of all flights were SEAD missions.

Here is what you do not understand about low radar observability...

It does NOT mean the 'stealth' pilot can have license with enemy radars. He still has to plan ingress/egress routes to avoid radar detection if possible. The goal of 'stealth' is that in the event that the pilot is caught inside a radar beam, it will make difficult, not impossible, for targeting. And when the F-117s were confined to well known routes, the odds of having losses increases no matter how 'stealthy' the jet might be. You can look at the S/DEAD support as necessary because of those NATO restraints.

I don't see how you concluded that. I was simply pointing up what were the reasons of low shoot down success of Serbian forces. Iraq air force and anti aircraft defence was a way more capable than Yugoslavian if we are looking at equipment only, and their anti aircraft defence went in all out conflict with US air force, and we know how that ended. Yugoslavian case was different. Main point of Yugoslav army operations was pointed at preserving military in case of the ground invasion. That's why army units were dispersed, why radar transmitting time was limited.... point was to stay a threat to NATO air force to the end, to make NATO aircrafts fly at high altitude so to avoid or make hard detection of ground troops. And that was what Serbian anti aircraft defence was successful at. Many US and NATO officers were pissed off because of that, beacuse they expected open confrontation, and they got mouse and cat game.

That is why I said that had this been a Desert Storm style air campaign, Serbian ground forces would not last 78 days. We may even lose more than one F-117 or more of other aircrafts, but the Serbs would not last 78 days.

I agree with this if NATO went hard for our infrastructure and economy from the start, the war would be ended sooner. Or if they went on with the ground invasion, i doubt that our forces could provide more than a 2-4 weeks of organized resistance.