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China's F-16: Meet the J-10 Fighter (Possibly Thanks to Israel)

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The J-10 “Vigorous Dragon” is a mainstay of China’s effort to modernize its large fleet of single-engine jet fighters, with 350 already in service. An agile tactical fighter similar to the ubiquitous F-16 Fighting Falcon , the Vigorous Dragon was the first domestic Chinese design roughly on par with Western and Russian fourth-generation fighters .

However, there is considerable evidence that the J-10’s development was heavily informed by a jet fighter developed by Israel with U.S. engines in the 1980s.

Israel first manufactured its own jets after its order of French Dassault Mirage Vs was embargoed in 1967. Israeli agents obtained Mirage V schematics (and most likely manufacturing components and even airframes), allowing Israel Aerospace Industries to produce two domestic clones: the Nesher and the improved Kfir. These both served with the IAF and were exported broad.


Between 1969–1979, the IAF received high-performance twin-engine F-4 Phantom fighters and F-15 Eagles from the United States. However, it still wanted a cheaper single-engine tactical fighter to replace its increasingly vulnerable A-4 Skyhawk and Nesher jets. So why not also build the Nesher’s replacement domestically?

The resulting dapper IAI Lavi (Lion Cub) had delta-wings (good for high-speed performance) combined with canards, a second set of small wings near the nose for improved lift and maneuverability. The Lion Cub was so maneuverable it was aerodynamically unstable, but an advanced quadruple-redundant fly-by-wire flight control system counter-acted the instability.


Report Advertisement
Composite materials were extensively incorporated to lower the Lavi’s weight down to just 7.25-tons empty. A compact Pratt & Whitney 1120 turbofan slung under the belly delivered large amounts of thrust, allowing the little Lavi to fly far and fast carrying up to a sixteen-thousand-pound payload.

In fact, with the exception of the canards, the Lavi closely resembled in appearance and capability the U.S.-built F-16s that entered Israeli Air Force service in 1980. These soon saw extensive combat service, destroying the Iraqi Osirak nuclear reactor and shooting down over forty Syrian fighters over Lebanon without loss.


Report Advertisement
Israeli and U.S. critics of the Lavi pointed out Israel was investing $2 billion in development costs to reinvent an airplane it had already bought from the United States. The more ground-attack oriented Lavi did differ in a few respects, however. It had a lower maximum speed of Mach 1.6-1.8 compared to the Falcon’s Mach 2, but had 50 percent longer range. It also had a powerful internal mounted jamming system for self-protection. The Lavi’s Israeli-designed avionics were comparable to the later F-16C model than the more rudimentary F-16A.

However, by the 1980s jet fighter development costs had grown exponentially as they grew more and more sophisticated; and, unlike the Nesher and Kfir, the Lavi was not cloned from an existing design. IAI hoped to make back the costs by exporting the Lavi, particularly to states facing embargoes due to poor human-rights records such as Apartheid-era South Africa, Chile and Argentina.


But the U.S., provider of 40 percent of the Lavi components, didn’t want to subsidize a competitor for the F-16. Washington signaled it would only cooperate if Israel refrained from exporting the Lavi.

By 1987 IAI had built two flying two-seat Lavi prototypes which demonstrated excellent performance in eighty-two test flights. Three more were under construction. It had also tested the PW1120 turbofans on an F-4 ‘Super Phantom’ which demonstrated such extraordinary performance it even flew a demo at the Paris Air Show and was briefly considered for export.


However, the extraordinary financial commitments the Lavi entailed made it extremely politically divisive. On August 30, in an 11-12 vote, the Israeli cabinet canceled the Lavi. Ninety additional F-16s were procured instead.

From Israel to China


Report Advertisement
Thus ended Israel’s production of domestic jet fighters—but not of advanced weapons and components for jet fighters, which was greatly boosted by technologies developed for the Lavi.

One notable export was the Python-3 heat-seeking missile, which boasted the then still-rare ability to engage planes from any aspect using a helmet-mounted sight. The technology was licensed for production by China’s Xi’an Aircraft Corporation in 1989 as the PL-8 missile, which remains in service today.


Report Advertisement
Other technologies transferred include the E/LM-2035 doppler radar (derivatives installed on the J-8 and J-10 fighter) and the Tamam inertial navigation system.

In fact, during the 1980s, the U.S. and Western Europe were also exporting military technology to China, then seen as a counter-balance to the Soviet Union. U.S. firms even explored co-developing updated J-7 and J-8 fighters for Beijing. However, Chinese-Western defense cooperation ended abruptly following the Tiananmen Square massacre on June 4, 1989.


Report Advertisement
However, in the mid-1990s, U.S. newspapers began reporting that intelligence agencies were concerned about continued Israeli technology transfers to China—including some components given to Israel by the United States.

This included allegations that Israel had transferred Lavi technology for China’s program to develop a fourth-generation jet fighter. The Chengdu Aircraft Corporation had begun work on the J-10 in 1988 under engineer Song Wecong, who can be seen next to a Lavi in this photo (fourth from the right).


Report Advertisement
In his book Lavi: the United States, Israel and a Controversial Fighter, John W. Golan wrote:

Israeli involvement in the J-10 appears to have begun at around the same time that China first opened diplomatic relations with Israel in January 1992 . . . Israeli contractors were engaged to provide the aerodynamic and structural outlines for the J-10. The Israeli influences on the J-10’s design are unmistakable: a close-coupled, canard-delta arrangement; a single-engine fighter featuring a ventral engine inlet; twin ventral strakes; and an area-ruled fuselage.


Report Advertisement
You can see the striking resemblance in these photo comparisons .

Concerns over Israel-China technology transfers spurred Congress to ban exporting the hi-tech F-22 Raptor stealth fighter . Unfortunately, the lack of export orders combined with later defense spending cuts, led to the premature closure of the F-22s production line . In its final years, the Clinton administration also blocked Israel from exporting its Phalcon airborne early-warning aircraft, forcing China to spend years domestically developing a wide variety of its own AEW aircraft .

According to Golan, “Israeli involvement in the J-10 program appears to have been curtailed at around the same time, with Russia stepping in to market Soviet-developed avionics systems to supply production versions of the aircraft.”

Both Song and IAI officials have staunchly denied collaboration in the J-10’s development.

However, in 2008, Jane’s reported that in extended interviews with several visiting Russian engineers that Chengdu “benefited from significant, direct input from Israel's Lavi programme - including access to the Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) Lavi aircraft itself . . . This has included extensive design and performance modeling, wind-tunnel testing and advanced aerodynamic design input . . . Jane's was told how Chengdu officials of the highest level stated how they had one of the IAI Lavi prototypes in their facilities.”

Hypothetically, Jane’s Russian sources may have been spreading misinformation. Russia’s aviation industry has a decidedly love-hate relationship with China .

However, if Israel did transfer Lavi technology to China—both parties would have strong incentives to deny it.

At any rate, the J-10 is more inspired by the Lavi than an outright clone. It is significantly longer and heavier, and has different wings. In his book, Golan explains that China lacked access to the compact PW1120 engine and the capability for wide-scale manufacturing of lightweight composite components. (China finally achieved the latter with the Y-20 transport plane .) Therefore, Song had to lengthen the J-10’s fuselage by two meters to accommodate a Russian AL-31F turbofan, resulting in an 11.75-ton jet.

Nonetheless, the J-10 remain an agile, versatile and inexpensive multirole fighter designed from the outset to incorporate hi-tech avionic systems and guided weapons. Though not a cutting-edge stealth aircraft , it marked an important milestone in China’s military modernization—achieved, most likely, with a little foreign assistance.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/chinas-f-16-meet-j-10-fighter-possibly-thanks-israel-48727
 
Bottom line
1980s -1990 china had not much experience in weapon making apsrt from what soveuts gave them in 1960s(alot of weapons)
But late 1980s europe and usa and in 1990 Israel and russia hand over them alot of technology this cuppled with large R&D and illegal stealing USA data has led them to become one of the laegest and sophisticated weapon manufacturer in efforts lasting 3 decades

China is now just second to USA in weapons manufacturing
 
The J-10 “Vigorous Dragon” is a mainstay of China’s effort to modernize its large fleet of single-engine jet fighters, with 350 already in service. An agile tactical fighter similar to the ubiquitous F-16 Fighting Falcon , the Vigorous Dragon was the first domestic Chinese design roughly on par with Western and Russian fourth-generation fighters .

However, there is considerable evidence that the J-10’s development was heavily informed by a jet fighter developed by Israel with U.S. engines in the 1980s.

Israel first manufactured its own jets after its order of French Dassault Mirage Vs was embargoed in 1967. Israeli agents obtained Mirage V schematics (and most likely manufacturing components and even airframes), allowing Israel Aerospace Industries to produce two domestic clones: the Nesher and the improved Kfir. These both served with the IAF and were exported broad.


Between 1969–1979, the IAF received high-performance twin-engine F-4 Phantom fighters and F-15 Eagles from the United States. However, it still wanted a cheaper single-engine tactical fighter to replace its increasingly vulnerable A-4 Skyhawk and Nesher jets. So why not also build the Nesher’s replacement domestically?

The resulting dapper IAI Lavi (Lion Cub) had delta-wings (good for high-speed performance) combined with canards, a second set of small wings near the nose for improved lift and maneuverability. The Lion Cub was so maneuverable it was aerodynamically unstable, but an advanced quadruple-redundant fly-by-wire flight control system counter-acted the instability.


Report Advertisement
Composite materials were extensively incorporated to lower the Lavi’s weight down to just 7.25-tons empty. A compact Pratt & Whitney 1120 turbofan slung under the belly delivered large amounts of thrust, allowing the little Lavi to fly far and fast carrying up to a sixteen-thousand-pound payload.

In fact, with the exception of the canards, the Lavi closely resembled in appearance and capability the U.S.-built F-16s that entered Israeli Air Force service in 1980. These soon saw extensive combat service, destroying the Iraqi Osirak nuclear reactor and shooting down over forty Syrian fighters over Lebanon without loss.


Report Advertisement
Israeli and U.S. critics of the Lavi pointed out Israel was investing $2 billion in development costs to reinvent an airplane it had already bought from the United States. The more ground-attack oriented Lavi did differ in a few respects, however. It had a lower maximum speed of Mach 1.6-1.8 compared to the Falcon’s Mach 2, but had 50 percent longer range. It also had a powerful internal mounted jamming system for self-protection. The Lavi’s Israeli-designed avionics were comparable to the later F-16C model than the more rudimentary F-16A.

However, by the 1980s jet fighter development costs had grown exponentially as they grew more and more sophisticated; and, unlike the Nesher and Kfir, the Lavi was not cloned from an existing design. IAI hoped to make back the costs by exporting the Lavi, particularly to states facing embargoes due to poor human-rights records such as Apartheid-era South Africa, Chile and Argentina.


But the U.S., provider of 40 percent of the Lavi components, didn’t want to subsidize a competitor for the F-16. Washington signaled it would only cooperate if Israel refrained from exporting the Lavi.

By 1987 IAI had built two flying two-seat Lavi prototypes which demonstrated excellent performance in eighty-two test flights. Three more were under construction. It had also tested the PW1120 turbofans on an F-4 ‘Super Phantom’ which demonstrated such extraordinary performance it even flew a demo at the Paris Air Show and was briefly considered for export.


However, the extraordinary financial commitments the Lavi entailed made it extremely politically divisive. On August 30, in an 11-12 vote, the Israeli cabinet canceled the Lavi. Ninety additional F-16s were procured instead.

From Israel to China


Report Advertisement
Thus ended Israel’s production of domestic jet fighters—but not of advanced weapons and components for jet fighters, which was greatly boosted by technologies developed for the Lavi.

One notable export was the Python-3 heat-seeking missile, which boasted the then still-rare ability to engage planes from any aspect using a helmet-mounted sight. The technology was licensed for production by China’s Xi’an Aircraft Corporation in 1989 as the PL-8 missile, which remains in service today.


Report Advertisement
Other technologies transferred include the E/LM-2035 doppler radar (derivatives installed on the J-8 and J-10 fighter) and the Tamam inertial navigation system.

In fact, during the 1980s, the U.S. and Western Europe were also exporting military technology to China, then seen as a counter-balance to the Soviet Union. U.S. firms even explored co-developing updated J-7 and J-8 fighters for Beijing. However, Chinese-Western defense cooperation ended abruptly following the Tiananmen Square massacre on June 4, 1989.


Report Advertisement
However, in the mid-1990s, U.S. newspapers began reporting that intelligence agencies were concerned about continued Israeli technology transfers to China—including some components given to Israel by the United States.

This included allegations that Israel had transferred Lavi technology for China’s program to develop a fourth-generation jet fighter. The Chengdu Aircraft Corporation had begun work on the J-10 in 1988 under engineer Song Wecong, who can be seen next to a Lavi in this photo (fourth from the right).


Report Advertisement
In his book Lavi: the United States, Israel and a Controversial Fighter, John W. Golan wrote:

Israeli involvement in the J-10 appears to have begun at around the same time that China first opened diplomatic relations with Israel in January 1992 . . . Israeli contractors were engaged to provide the aerodynamic and structural outlines for the J-10. The Israeli influences on the J-10’s design are unmistakable: a close-coupled, canard-delta arrangement; a single-engine fighter featuring a ventral engine inlet; twin ventral strakes; and an area-ruled fuselage.


Report Advertisement
You can see the striking resemblance in these photo comparisons .

Concerns over Israel-China technology transfers spurred Congress to ban exporting the hi-tech F-22 Raptor stealth fighter . Unfortunately, the lack of export orders combined with later defense spending cuts, led to the premature closure of the F-22s production line . In its final years, the Clinton administration also blocked Israel from exporting its Phalcon airborne early-warning aircraft, forcing China to spend years domestically developing a wide variety of its own AEW aircraft .

According to Golan, “Israeli involvement in the J-10 program appears to have been curtailed at around the same time, with Russia stepping in to market Soviet-developed avionics systems to supply production versions of the aircraft.”

Both Song and IAI officials have staunchly denied collaboration in the J-10’s development.

However, in 2008, Jane’s reported that in extended interviews with several visiting Russian engineers that Chengdu “benefited from significant, direct input from Israel's Lavi programme - including access to the Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) Lavi aircraft itself . . . This has included extensive design and performance modeling, wind-tunnel testing and advanced aerodynamic design input . . . Jane's was told how Chengdu officials of the highest level stated how they had one of the IAI Lavi prototypes in their facilities.”

Hypothetically, Jane’s Russian sources may have been spreading misinformation. Russia’s aviation industry has a decidedly love-hate relationship with China .

However, if Israel did transfer Lavi technology to China—both parties would have strong incentives to deny it.

At any rate, the J-10 is more inspired by the Lavi than an outright clone. It is significantly longer and heavier, and has different wings. In his book, Golan explains that China lacked access to the compact PW1120 engine and the capability for wide-scale manufacturing of lightweight composite components. (China finally achieved the latter with the Y-20 transport plane .) Therefore, Song had to lengthen the J-10’s fuselage by two meters to accommodate a Russian AL-31F turbofan, resulting in an 11.75-ton jet.

Nonetheless, the J-10 remain an agile, versatile and inexpensive multirole fighter designed from the outset to incorporate hi-tech avionic systems and guided weapons. Though not a cutting-edge stealth aircraft , it marked an important milestone in China’s military modernization—achieved, most likely, with a little foreign assistance.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/chinas-f-16-meet-j-10-fighter-possibly-thanks-israel-48727
J-10 has Lavi's footprint all over it. Atlas was heavily involved with IAI during the design e.g. that is where all aspect HMS came from. Wind tunnel model tests were also being done here.
 
The J-10 “Vigorous Dragon” is a mainstay of China’s effort to modernize its large fleet of single-engine jet fighters, with 350 already in service. An agile tactical fighter similar to the ubiquitous F-16 Fighting Falcon , the Vigorous Dragon was the first domestic Chinese design roughly on par with Western and Russian fourth-generation fighters .

However, there is considerable evidence that the J-10’s development was heavily informed by a jet fighter developed by Israel with U.S. engines in the 1980s.

Israel first manufactured its own jets after its order of French Dassault Mirage Vs was embargoed in 1967. Israeli agents obtained Mirage V schematics (and most likely manufacturing components and even airframes), allowing Israel Aerospace Industries to produce two domestic clones: the Nesher and the improved Kfir. These both served with the IAF and were exported broad.


Between 1969–1979, the IAF received high-performance twin-engine F-4 Phantom fighters and F-15 Eagles from the United States. However, it still wanted a cheaper single-engine tactical fighter to replace its increasingly vulnerable A-4 Skyhawk and Nesher jets. So why not also build the Nesher’s replacement domestically?

The resulting dapper IAI Lavi (Lion Cub) had delta-wings (good for high-speed performance) combined with canards, a second set of small wings near the nose for improved lift and maneuverability. The Lion Cub was so maneuverable it was aerodynamically unstable, but an advanced quadruple-redundant fly-by-wire flight control system counter-acted the instability.


Report Advertisement
Composite materials were extensively incorporated to lower the Lavi’s weight down to just 7.25-tons empty. A compact Pratt & Whitney 1120 turbofan slung under the belly delivered large amounts of thrust, allowing the little Lavi to fly far and fast carrying up to a sixteen-thousand-pound payload.

In fact, with the exception of the canards, the Lavi closely resembled in appearance and capability the U.S.-built F-16s that entered Israeli Air Force service in 1980. These soon saw extensive combat service, destroying the Iraqi Osirak nuclear reactor and shooting down over forty Syrian fighters over Lebanon without loss.


Report Advertisement
Israeli and U.S. critics of the Lavi pointed out Israel was investing $2 billion in development costs to reinvent an airplane it had already bought from the United States. The more ground-attack oriented Lavi did differ in a few respects, however. It had a lower maximum speed of Mach 1.6-1.8 compared to the Falcon’s Mach 2, but had 50 percent longer range. It also had a powerful internal mounted jamming system for self-protection. The Lavi’s Israeli-designed avionics were comparable to the later F-16C model than the more rudimentary F-16A.

However, by the 1980s jet fighter development costs had grown exponentially as they grew more and more sophisticated; and, unlike the Nesher and Kfir, the Lavi was not cloned from an existing design. IAI hoped to make back the costs by exporting the Lavi, particularly to states facing embargoes due to poor human-rights records such as Apartheid-era South Africa, Chile and Argentina.


But the U.S., provider of 40 percent of the Lavi components, didn’t want to subsidize a competitor for the F-16. Washington signaled it would only cooperate if Israel refrained from exporting the Lavi.

By 1987 IAI had built two flying two-seat Lavi prototypes which demonstrated excellent performance in eighty-two test flights. Three more were under construction. It had also tested the PW1120 turbofans on an F-4 ‘Super Phantom’ which demonstrated such extraordinary performance it even flew a demo at the Paris Air Show and was briefly considered for export.


However, the extraordinary financial commitments the Lavi entailed made it extremely politically divisive. On August 30, in an 11-12 vote, the Israeli cabinet canceled the Lavi. Ninety additional F-16s were procured instead.

From Israel to China


Report Advertisement
Thus ended Israel’s production of domestic jet fighters—but not of advanced weapons and components for jet fighters, which was greatly boosted by technologies developed for the Lavi.

One notable export was the Python-3 heat-seeking missile, which boasted the then still-rare ability to engage planes from any aspect using a helmet-mounted sight. The technology was licensed for production by China’s Xi’an Aircraft Corporation in 1989 as the PL-8 missile, which remains in service today.


Report Advertisement
Other technologies transferred include the E/LM-2035 doppler radar (derivatives installed on the J-8 and J-10 fighter) and the Tamam inertial navigation system.

In fact, during the 1980s, the U.S. and Western Europe were also exporting military technology to China, then seen as a counter-balance to the Soviet Union. U.S. firms even explored co-developing updated J-7 and J-8 fighters for Beijing. However, Chinese-Western defense cooperation ended abruptly following the Tiananmen Square massacre on June 4, 1989.


Report Advertisement
However, in the mid-1990s, U.S. newspapers began reporting that intelligence agencies were concerned about continued Israeli technology transfers to China—including some components given to Israel by the United States.

This included allegations that Israel had transferred Lavi technology for China’s program to develop a fourth-generation jet fighter. The Chengdu Aircraft Corporation had begun work on the J-10 in 1988 under engineer Song Wecong, who can be seen next to a Lavi in this photo (fourth from the right).


Report Advertisement
In his book Lavi: the United States, Israel and a Controversial Fighter, John W. Golan wrote:

Israeli involvement in the J-10 appears to have begun at around the same time that China first opened diplomatic relations with Israel in January 1992 . . . Israeli contractors were engaged to provide the aerodynamic and structural outlines for the J-10. The Israeli influences on the J-10’s design are unmistakable: a close-coupled, canard-delta arrangement; a single-engine fighter featuring a ventral engine inlet; twin ventral strakes; and an area-ruled fuselage.


Report Advertisement
You can see the striking resemblance in these photo comparisons .

Concerns over Israel-China technology transfers spurred Congress to ban exporting the hi-tech F-22 Raptor stealth fighter . Unfortunately, the lack of export orders combined with later defense spending cuts, led to the premature closure of the F-22s production line . In its final years, the Clinton administration also blocked Israel from exporting its Phalcon airborne early-warning aircraft, forcing China to spend years domestically developing a wide variety of its own AEW aircraft .

According to Golan, “Israeli involvement in the J-10 program appears to have been curtailed at around the same time, with Russia stepping in to market Soviet-developed avionics systems to supply production versions of the aircraft.”

Both Song and IAI officials have staunchly denied collaboration in the J-10’s development.

However, in 2008, Jane’s reported that in extended interviews with several visiting Russian engineers that Chengdu “benefited from significant, direct input from Israel's Lavi programme - including access to the Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) Lavi aircraft itself . . . This has included extensive design and performance modeling, wind-tunnel testing and advanced aerodynamic design input . . . Jane's was told how Chengdu officials of the highest level stated how they had one of the IAI Lavi prototypes in their facilities.”

Hypothetically, Jane’s Russian sources may have been spreading misinformation. Russia’s aviation industry has a decidedly love-hate relationship with China .

However, if Israel did transfer Lavi technology to China—both parties would have strong incentives to deny it.

At any rate, the J-10 is more inspired by the Lavi than an outright clone. It is significantly longer and heavier, and has different wings. In his book, Golan explains that China lacked access to the compact PW1120 engine and the capability for wide-scale manufacturing of lightweight composite components. (China finally achieved the latter with the Y-20 transport plane .) Therefore, Song had to lengthen the J-10’s fuselage by two meters to accommodate a Russian AL-31F turbofan, resulting in an 11.75-ton jet.

Nonetheless, the J-10 remain an agile, versatile and inexpensive multirole fighter designed from the outset to incorporate hi-tech avionic systems and guided weapons. Though not a cutting-edge stealth aircraft , it marked an important milestone in China’s military modernization—achieved, most likely, with a little foreign assistance.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/chinas-f-16-meet-j-10-fighter-possibly-thanks-israel-48727

Today is J-10's birthday!
 
J-10 has Lavi's footprint all over it. Atlas was heavily involved with IAI during the design e.g. that is where all aspect HMS came from. Wind tunnel model tests were also being done here.

BS, that is LAVI wind tunnel and not J-10.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-9

China has longed invested in canard design in the 70s but metallurgy and lack of high power engine stop the development. There is indeed thru interaction between IAI and Chengdu but try imply all efforts are thru espionage and data from IAI Lavi just show the immerse ignorance about aviation design. Digital FBW cannot be copy, anybody in military aviation bg knows that. They are unique flying program that special tailor or a particular aircraft. Even a small amount of aerodyanamic changes need full revamp of the program. LAVI and J-10 are different in size and not to mention different canard positioning plus different air inlet design.

The Digital FBW plus aerodyanmic designing needs to be a total Chinese effort as even Israel cannot complete LAVI project themselves without US sofftware and further support.

If China military is all about copy and following others behind. I guess JF-17 will have long been shot down by SU-30MKI and Mig-21 Bison in 27 Februrary encountered and not to mention JF-17 is not the best that Chinese designed. KLJ-7 radar of JF-17 is a step below KLJ-10 of J-10. This is fact.

A step below doesnt mean its inferior to many others. Just that CHinese radar is simply too good. Su-30MKI and bison radar are overhyped while Chinese radar are always under estimated.
 
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J-10 has Lavi's footprint all over it. Atlas was heavily involved with IAI during the design e.g. that is where all aspect HMS came from. Wind tunnel model tests were also being done here.

Very good. Doesn’t make the J-10 any less.

BS, that is LAVI wind tunnel and not J-10.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-9

China has longed invested in canard design in the 70s but metallurgy and lack of high power engine stop the development. There is indeed thru interaction between IAI and Chengdu but try imply all efforts are thru espionage and data from IAI Lavi just show the immerse ignorance about aviation design. Digital FBW cannot be copy, anybody in military aviation bg knows that. They are unique flying program that special tailor or a particular aircraft. Even a small amount of aerodyanamic changes need full revamp of the program. LAVI and J-10 are different in size and not to mention different canard positioning plus different air inlet design.

The Digital FBW plus aerodyanmic designing needs to be a total Chinese effort as even Israel cannot complete LAVI project themselves without US sofftware and further support.

The nationalist is a pro US website that speaks nothing objective about Chinese military development. Full of jealousy and bias. If China military is all about copy and following others behind. I guess JF-17 will have long been shot down by SU-30MKI and Mig-21 Bison in 27 Februrary encountered and not to mention JF-17 is not the best that Chinese designed. KLJ-7 radar of JF-17 is a step below KLJ-10 of J-10. This is fact.

A step below doesnt mean its inferior to many others. Just that CHinese radar is simply too good. Su-30MKI and bison radar are overhyped while Chinese radar are always under estimated.

The JF-17 humiliated the IAF singlehandedly. LOL the Americans are begging to the world and claiming their F-16 shot down Su-30 and the flying coffin.
 
It strangely looks like a mixture of American-European platforms.
 
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J-10 has Lavi's footprint all over it. Atlas was heavily involved with IAI during the design e.g. that is where all aspect HMS came from. Wind tunnel model tests were also being done here.
If COPYING is so easy, BOEING 737 Max would not have crashed twice after changing to a bigger engine.
J-10 is so different from the Lavi, using mainly Chinese parts except for the engine.
Don't just FART without facts.

BOEING depended on a Chinese Engineer a Century ago to make their planes fly.
https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime...man-who-got-u-s-aircraft-giant-boeing-flying/

The Chinese Birdman Who Got US Aircraft Giant Boeing Flying
Mr. Wong’s(Wang Tsu) hiring by Boeing produced almost immediate results.
.
 
BS, that is LAVI wind tunnel and not J-10.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-9

China has longed invested in canard design in the 70s but metallurgy and lack of high power engine stop the development. There is indeed thru interaction between IAI and Chengdu but try imply all efforts are thru espionage and data from IAI Lavi just show the immerse ignorance about aviation design. Digital FBW cannot be copy, anybody in military aviation bg knows that. They are unique flying program that special tailor or a particular aircraft. Even a small amount of aerodyanamic changes need full revamp of the program. LAVI and J-10 are different in size and not to mention different canard positioning plus different air inlet design.

The Digital FBW plus aerodyanmic designing needs to be a total Chinese effort as even Israel cannot complete LAVI project themselves without US sofftware and further support.

If China military is all about copy and following others behind. I guess JF-17 will have long been shot down by SU-30MKI and Mig-21 Bison in 27 Februrary encountered and not to mention JF-17 is not the best that Chinese designed. KLJ-7 radar of JF-17 is a step below KLJ-10 of J-10. This is fact.

A step below doesnt mean its inferior to many others. Just that CHinese radar is simply too good. Su-30MKI and bison radar are overhyped while Chinese radar are always under estimated.
Su-30MKI kill is not confirmed and is also a chance that the F-16 secured the 2nd kill.
 
Show some respect to Chinese, the one who lend you JF-17 with Chinese radar that shoots down IAF aircraft that included SU-30MKI. Calling it large number of Chinese effort thru stealing just show your ignorant and foolishness.

Large number of effort are by Chinese themselves thru billion of dollars pour into R&D and nurtured of talented aviation designer like Yang Wei. Its so easy to steal, why not you steal one F-22 and make one youself?

True pakistanis cannot stay between US or China. Its either u stay on Chinese camp or US camp. Given US repeatedly screw Pakistanis, only traitor will still try praise US and insult Chinese.

Your PAF Burraq UCAV are just pure copy of CH-1 Chinese UCAV and claimed as indignenous with zero self input. Your Pakistanis Aviation are nothing without Chinese support. Do u like that if I put it this way?

If u do not want others to be rude to you then you better watch your language and allies first rather than insult and spew nonsense.
What do you want me to say that china has junk material?

Or do you want me to say china had superior weapons in 1990s..?

My whole post was about how china has came long way!
 
What do you want me to say that china has junk material?

Or do you want me to say china had superior weapons in 1990s..?

My whole post was about how china has came long way!
Steal here steal there. You have nothing good to say. As I say, it so easy to steal, go ahead and steal one to make a F-22. It can fulfil your fantasy. Maybe IAF can also steal F-22 and make a hundred copy and cripple PAF, right?
 
What do you want me to say that china has junk material?
Or do you want me to say china had superior weapons in 1990s..?

My whole post was about how china has came long way!
illegal stealing USA data
Your quote without FACTS is highly offensive.
Much of the Chinese contributions to the progress of the US go unreported.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesasia/2014/05/12/the-chinese-helped-build-america/
The Chinese Helped Build America
The story of the Chinese workers who had braved freezing winters and scorching summers to lay the rail infrastructure of the nation went missing, for the most part, from the stories the country told about itself.

The Chinese contributed not just brawn but also brains and skill.
The journal noted that the Chinese were especially clever in aligning roads and could “strike a truer line for a longer distance with the unassisted eye than most white men can with the aid of instruments.” Chinese supervisors, who spoke English, were “very intelligent men” and showed “an extensive acquaintance with railroad matters.”
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Your quote without FACTS is highly offensive.
Much of the Chinese contributions to the progress of the US go unreported.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesasia/2014/05/12/the-chinese-helped-build-america/
The Chinese Helped Build America
The story of the Chinese workers who had braved freezing winters and scorching summers to lay the rail infrastructure of the nation went missing, for the most part, from the stories the country told about itself.

The Chinese contributed not just brawn but also brains and skill.
The journal noted that the Chinese were especially clever in aligning roads and could “strike a truer line for a longer distance with the unassisted eye than most white men can with the aid of instruments.” Chinese supervisors, who spoke English, were “very intelligent men” and showed “an extensive acquaintance with railroad matters.”
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Should add "alleged" lol

China has never done anything against IPs ever before (like really..)
 
J-10 has Lavi's footprint all over it. Atlas was heavily involved with IAI during the design e.g. that is where all aspect HMS came from. Wind tunnel model tests were also being done here.
The famous model that was made in 1982 help the chief designer, 宋文骢, get the J-10 project in 1984, while Lavi made its maiden flight in 1986:
方案汇报歼十模型.jpg
20170322074641593939133.jpg


J-10A
8764705.jpg
 
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