China's capital orders Arabic, Muslim symbols taken down

[prashantazazel]

Will India follow the same course?

Unlikely. At least 80-90%of our country is backward and religious.

 

[kankan326]

Germany made huge mistakes when Germany became arrogant.
America made huge mistakes, treated Russia very badly after Cold War.
America made more mistakes after 9/11, treated Muslim countries very brutally, defend Israel and disregard Middle East hundreds of millions people's request.

China must be humble and always make wise policy, any powerful country start to fall in the moment to be arrogant.

China has always been humble. Weird thing is, you can never see the humbleness from muslims. There are only two groups of people that dare interfere China's internal affairs. Arrogant westerners and muslims. For god sake, these terrorists killed thousands of our people. We don't have any room for more humbleness on this issue.

 

[dray / Rain Man]

Which is fine from their perspective; it is a domestic matter at the end of the day(for now).

They won't care even if this issue becomes an international issue and draws condemnation from rest of the world, no communist country care about the perception of foreigners, otherwise China has a very long list of actions that have received severe international condemnation in the last 70 years. In fact China has been doing many things against their Muslim population for several years now with no mentionable condemnation from even the Muslim countries. Let's not forget that China has money, and other countries have their economic interests.

One more thing, China's concept of 'allies' is different from the rest of the world, including the west. In fact China has no true allies, for China all their so called allies exist only to serve Chinese interest, the concept of 'mutual benefits' is alien to them, otherwise they wouldn't have laid such deep debt traps for almost all of their 'allies'.

 

[letsrock]

Unlikely. At least 80-90%of our country is backward and religious.

It is India which keeps 80-90% of Indians in backward and religious bondage to brahmins. It is deliberate and by design . China wants to integrate and liberate its people. Huge difference.

 

[kankan326]

They won't care even if this issue becomes an international issue and draws condemnation from rest of the world, no communist country care about the perception of foreigners, otherwise China has a very long list of actions that have received severe international condemnation in the last 70 years. In fact China has been doing many things against their Muslim population for several years now with no mentionable condemnation from even the Muslim countries. Let's not forget that China has money, and other countries have their economic interests.

One more thing, China's concept of 'allies' is different from the rest of the world, including the west. In fact China has no true allies, for China all their so called allies exist only to serve Chinese interest, the concept of 'mutual benefits' is alien to them, otherwise they wouldn't have laid such deep debt traps for almost all of their 'allies'.

Your concept of "allies" works for every country.

 

[vi-va]

They won't care even if this issue becomes an international issue and draws condemnation from rest of the world, no communist country care about the perception of foreigners, otherwise China has a very long list of actions that have received severe international condemnation in the last 70 years. In fact China has been doing many things against their Muslim population for several years now with no mentionable condemnation from even the Muslim countries. Let's not forget that China has money, and other countries have their economic interests.

One more thing, China's concept of 'allies' is different from the rest of the world, including the west. In fact China has no true allies, for China all their so called allies exist only to serve Chinese interest, the concept of 'mutual benefits' is alien to them, otherwise they wouldn't have laid such deep debt traps for almost all of their 'allies'.

You mean China debt trap for America? China lend most to America. Seems you are smarter and America is foolish.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

yeah right LOL, that is why PAKISTAN & SAUDI ARABIA, endorsed China's policy in Xinjiang, you know why they did that? its because the leadership of those two countries realize that the "ummah" does not exist & that economic benefits is much more important than any imagenary religeon based brotherhood.

some Pakistani members here condemn China because of the Uyghur issue, let us assume that what the west says about China oppresing muslims is true, why do you condemn it? I mean... Turkey oppresses the Kurds too yet we dont hear you condemning Turkey & voicing support for the Kurds, or do you think its OK when a muslim opresses another muslim but its not OK when an atheist does it!

The thread isn't about xinjiang separa. If China's approach towards separatism works, and clearly it has worked in xinjiang, then all well and good. That is rightly applauded by KSA, Pakistan and even Turkey.

The problem is that banning Arabic signs isn't an attack on terrorists or separatists... Rather it is an attack on Muslim communities. It's quite bizarre on multiple levels. Even "sinifying" religion within limits would be totally acceptable if there is justification for certain actions, e.g. insisting on home trained imams who speak Chinese sermons as well as arabic, registration and documentation of funding etc - these are all positive steps that promote security - no problem. But banning Arabic doesn't do any such thing and has no benefit whatsoever. Rather, it looks a bit odd forcing certain specific communities to drop a key and completely indolent aspect of their culture. imagine Chinatown in a western city but without Chinese script on the signs!

If this policy of banning Arabic signs is true - and it could still end up being fake news, I don't know - then China should rethink on that one.

 

[El Sidd]

Unlikely. At least 80-90%of our country is backward and religious.

six months ago you were Telling me Religion is dead.

 

[obj 705A]

The thread isn't about xinjiang separa. If China's approach towards separatism works, and clearly it has worked in xinjiang, then all well and good. That is rightly applauded by KSA, Pakistan and even Turkey.

The problem is that banning Arabic signs isn't an attack on terrorists or separatists... Rather it is an attack on Muslim communities.

if I understood you correctly you endorse any opression against a minority as long as it is just about enough to prevent sepratism (ie oppresion of Kurds, and alleged oppresion of Uyghurs), but you dont support oppresion that goes beyond preventing sepratism right? and you are against the alleged ban on Arabic because you think the ban is not needed to prevent sepratism, so in this case the ban would be considered to be oppresion for the sake of oppresion right?

well in that case I assure you the Chinese government does not take diciosions on a whim, its a giant nation with tremendous economic & scientific prowess, its practicaly an empire, the dicisions in China are not made on the sudden whims of Xi Jinping, they have think tanks that can plan & predict what will happen & what will they do not just after few years but even after several decades, if the Chinese have indeed decided that Arab language promotes sepratism then you should endorse a ban on it.

many Pakistani members here LOVE the Otoman empire, LOL ironicaly if the Arabs were made to forget Arabic language & got completely Turkified then the beloved Otoman empire may have lived longer & possibly still exist to this day, you see.... having a language that differs greatly from the state's main language does pose of a threat of sepratism, that is like such a simple fact that you dont need a think tank to tell you that much.

 

[letsrock]

if I understood you correctly you endorse any opression against a minority as long as it is just about enough to prevent sepratism (ie oppresion of Kurds, and alleged oppresion of Uyghurs), but you dont support oppresion that goes beyond preventing sepratism right? and you are against the alleged ban on Arabic because you think the ban is not needed to prevent sepratism, so in this case the ban would be considered to be oppresion for the sake of oppresion right?

well in that case I assure you the Chinese government does not take diciosions on a whim, its a giant nation with tremendous economic & scientific prowess, its practicaly an empire, the dicisions in China are not made on the sudden whims of Xi Jinping, they have think tanks that can plan & predict what will happen & what will they do not just after few years but even after several decades, if the Chinese have indeed decided that Arab language promotes sepratism then you should endorse a ban on it.

many Pakistani members here LOVE the Otoman empire, LOL ironicaly if the Arabs were made to forget Arabic language & got completely Turkified then the beloved Otoman empire may have lived longer & possibly still exist to this day, you see.... having a language that differs greatly from the state's main language does pose of a threat of sepratism, that is like such a simple fact that you dont need a think tank to tell you that much.

But is arabic really language or Uighurs? does anyone know the script and language of Uighurs? and what about script of han chinese muslims also called hui. If anyone of them use arabic script then it is frankly an overreach of chinese state to ban it.

 

[prashantazazel]

six months ago you were Telling me Religion is dead.

Not in the subcontinent.

 

[El Sidd]

Not in the subcontinent.

There is little evidence to support your claim outside the sub Continent as well.

 

[TRNDSTTR]

This is why a relationship with China should remain totally business oriented. All this cringeworthy crap about Sino-Pak relations being 'Sweeter than honey, higher than the Himalayas...' needs to stop.

 

[fisher1]

This is why a relationship with China should remain totally business oriented. All this cringeworthy crap about Sino-Pak relations being 'Sweeter than honey, higher than the Himalayas...' needs to stop.

Or China is a blessing according to the sadiq and ameen Imran Khan

 

[masterchief_mirza]

if I understood you correctly you endorse any opression against a minority as long as it is just about enough to prevent sepratism (ie oppresion of Kurds, and alleged oppresion of Uyghurs), but you dont support oppresion that goes beyond preventing sepratism right? and you are against the alleged ban on Arabic because you think the ban is not needed to prevent sepratism, so in this case the ban would be considered to be oppresion for the sake of oppresion right?

well in that case I assure you the Chinese government does not take diciosions on a whim, its a giant nation with tremendous economic & scientific prowess, its practicaly an empire, the dicisions in China are not made on the sudden whims of Xi Jinping, they have think tanks that can plan & predict what will happen & what will they do not just after few years but even after several decades, if the Chinese have indeed decided that Arab language promotes sepratism then you should endorse a ban on it.

many Pakistani members here LOVE the Otoman empire, LOL ironicaly if the Arabs were made to forget Arabic language & got completely Turkified then the beloved Otoman empire may have lived longer & possibly still exist to this day, you see.... having a language that differs greatly from the state's main language does pose of a threat of sepratism, that is like such a simple fact that you dont need a think tank to tell you that much.

Firstly, I don't endorse "oppression" at all. I simply do not define the Chinese taking steps to counter Uighur separatists as "oppression". I try to avoid western media propaganda on this topic.

Neither are Turkish attacks against Kurdish terrorists an act of "oppression".

As for your other point that mentions Arabic script as potentially having a seditious impact, it is not an entirely implausible suggestion. However, a nation or empire needs to be pretty damn paranoid and close to collapse to regard the use of foreign script in itself a seditious act.

Consider that Uighur oral language is nothing like Arabic and is in fact Turkic in nature. The Arabic signage relates to its arabised written form and also true Arabic words for certain universal Islamic terms e.g. halal. But I am assuming the ban in question would apply to Uighur arabised script as well as Arabic proper, which is something I am not clear on. For argument's sake, I will assume it is both arabised Uighur AND Arabic proper that are being earmarked for a ban. Regarding this, you assert that China's long and impressive history, its recent rising status as a world superpower, and its knowledge and experience in governance over a large, heterogeneous and disparate empire add enough value to the various executive decisions taken by the party leadership to give confidence that those decisions will ultimately prove correct. I would suggest instead that your leadership uses evidence to base its decisions on. This is a far more scientific, logical and pragmatic approach, rather than the raw emotion of blind faith in the party leadership based on their past acts (which almost sounds like a fundamentalist religious devotion ironically enough).

Look at the evidence of what works against these restive borderland populations and what doesn't - Russia's approach of local empowerment and preservation of benign cultural elements (e.g. religion and language) worked well in the Caucasus. China is fortunate in that it has the formal backing of the Islamic world in its moves against Uighur separatists. Even Turkey itself has made recent statements that water down its past pro-turkestan rhetoric. So China would be quite simply overreaching by banning Arabic. It's unnecessary and potentially counterproductive.