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China urges Pakistani leaders to resolve issues over CPEC project

Hi,

The most important question is that why is cpec corridor going thru punjab-----why is it on the south side of indus river----.

It should stay in baluchistan and then to KPK and stay on the north of indus till KPK----.

Brininging it thru punjab and thru Lahore is reducing its military importance and making it feasible for future India trade thru that route---.

Nawaz is not stupid----he has counted his marbles already----.

Basically---any route of cpec coming south of river indus thru the length of pakistan is being dishonest with the project.

Strategically---the Quetta route is the best.
That's exactly what everybody is crying about, How the hell route suddenly changed from west to east and why. I think we should have motorway network in east as shown but this CPEC money should be used to develop western route as initially intended. 1860s Transcontinental Railroad network did wonders in the development of the US, despite the fact that when it was build, most of the US was empty. CPEC can play same crutal role in the development of western parts of Pakistan. It will prevent job related migration, which in turns will prevent over-crowding and over-crowding related security problems in the eastern cities like we have seen in Karachi. May be 6 lane demand is bit absurd at this moment but spreading fiber optic is not. Out of $46 billion it will not even cost $46 million to spread fiber optic to major cities. line rent alone will easily cover the cost of investment within few years.
 
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That's exactly what everybody is crying about, How the hell route suddenly changed from west to east and why. I think we should have motorway network in east as shown but this CPEC money should be used to develop western route as initially intended. 1860s Transcontinental Railroad network did wonders in the development of the US, despite the fact that when it was build, most of the US was empty. CPEC can play same crutal role in the development of western parts of Pakistan. It will prevent job related migration, which in turns will prevent over-crowding and over-crowding related security problems in the eastern cities like we have seen in Karachi. May be 6 lane demand is bit absurd at this moment but spreading fiber optic is not. Out of $46 billion it will not even cost $46 million to spread fiber optic to major cities. line rent alone will easily cover the cost of investment within few years.
May I speculate. Is it possible that it is because of some safty concern?
 
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May I speculate. Is it possible that it is because of some safty concern?
Those are there for last 50 years, time to move forward and fix these issue. Like I said, motorways on eastern side is a good idea and can always be connected with the western route in future. Meanwhile, Grand Trunk roads already exist on the east side just in case if something go wrong somewhere on the western route.

... Zardari and Noora should be water boarded until they start shelling out billions out of their A$$. Country is $90 billion under debt. Without any major project.
 
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Hi,

The most important question is that why is cpec corridor going thru punjab-----why is it on the south side of indus river----.

It should stay in baluchistan and then to KPK and stay on the north of indus till KPK----.

Brininging it thru punjab and thru Lahore is reducing its military importance and making it feasible for future India trade thru that route---.

Nawaz is not stupid----he has counted his marbles already----.

Basically---any route of cpec coming south of river indus thru the length of pakistan is being dishonest with the project.

Strategically---the Quetta route is the best.

Sorry, but this sort of rambling on about CPEC has been going on for too long. Misrepresentation because the government put out simplistic maps which a single dotted line running north to south giving Pakistanis the impression that CPEC is simple a monorail. Or a one way 50 lane super highway that can bend this way and that to accommodate provinces.

This is false. CPEC is not about a single road or a route, CPEC has within it multiple projects for developing industry, energy production through diversified means. Transportation is simple one aspect of it, and that aspect is covered by the development in Gwadar, the port, the city and the airport. The next aspect of transportation are the roads and railways. And there is NO one road selected as a route, there's a network of roads being built under this project. Including roads that go through KP, Sindh, Southern punjab and they are all interlinked or through one another to Gwadar.

For God sake, stop this divisive stuff, pretending that CPEC is all about a single road and route, and killing this one chance for real progress just because of nasty provincial politics.

More often than not, a poor country needs to concentrate resources to give the development a jump start. It needs a process with proper priorities. Sacrifices have to be made here and there. It has no luxury to spread resources too thin, which in the end accomplishes nothing.

This is not the case here, the arguments and squabbling going on are total BS. This project is good for us, and some negotiation on structural changes are to be made only if there's a reason, and then economists, engineers, developers and planners get together to discuss needs and possible approach. And then feasibility studies are conducted on whether itis possible or needed or beneficial, and then it is decided on what to do.

Here we have, people who don't know about the project, do not know the details, but are making a fuss, and offering no basis in the proper way discussed above. Simple whining and crying that it's unfair to them somehow and that the entire development needs to be halted until they get a share of the loot.

Total BS, and it makes my blood boil.
 
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There are certain things these bastard politicians can protest on but there should be no compromise on CPEC. Khatak should STFU & let this mega project complete without any complications.
 
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Sorry, but this sort of rambling on about CPEC has been going on for too long. Misrepresentation because the government put out simplistic maps which a single dotted line running north to south giving Pakistanis the impression that CPEC is simple a monorail. Or a one way 50 lane super highway that can bend this way and that to accommodate provinces.

This is false. CPEC is not about a single road or a route, CPEC has within it multiple projects for developing industry, energy production through diversified means. Transportation is simple one aspect of it, and that aspect is covered by the development in Gwadar, the port, the city and the airport. The next aspect of transportation are the roads and railways. And there is NO one road selected as a route, there's a network of roads being built under this project. Including roads that go through KP, Sindh, Southern punjab and they are all interlinked or through one another to Gwadar.

For God sake, stop this divisive stuff, pretending that CPEC is all about a single road and route, and killing this one chance for real progress just because of nasty provincial politics.
Sir there are two main objectives for the CPEC project, connecting Gawder to China and easing the energy crises, everything else is either support project or will be the by product of all this activity. Out of $46 billion $36 will be energy related. Now sole object of Chinese investor like anyother investor is to develop a quick, small revenue producing project to take money back to china with profit. i.e coal and gas turbine power plants. Now if our govt had little bit brain power, they would have realized that cost of such project for Pakistan economy, people and industry will be overwhelming.

1. We have to buy foreign oil or LNG or Chinese coal power plants. (Billions every years)
2. All revenue will go back to china with interest and profits. (Billions every year)
3. Cost of energy will keep getting higher and will cause inflation.
4. Higher electric price mean higher cost of production for Pakistani products.
5. Higher cost of production mean Pakistani will not be able to compete in the export market.
5. Average consumer will pay more money to foreign LNG companies and in electric bill, leaving them broke reducing local economic activity hurting local business and Tax collection.

Now on scale of having no investment to this, obviously even this is good. but what could have been done to improve this investment.

1. As per media, since Chinese are being so generous, they should been given option, b/w building dams.
2. Dams last for several decades,
3. Provides revenues in billions every year.
4. Revenue could be used for build all the other that Ahsan Iqbal has on his wish list, without foreign loan, funding or interest.
5. Cheap hydro-energy, low production cost, more exports, more money for consumer to spend, more Tax collection, more Capital in the country.
6. Once limited life cycle of LNG or coal plant is over and money recovered, Pakistan will be back in the same spot asking for another foreign investment, siting in a dark stagnant economy.

With current approach, Ashan Iqbal talk about of hundred of billions of dollars is all trash talk. If there is no money left in consumer pocket to pay for the investment, no one is investing another dime in this country.
 
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Sir there are two main objectives for the CPEC project, connecting Gawder to China and easing the energy crises, everything else is either support project or will be the by product of all this activity. Out of $46 billion $36 will be energy related. Now sole object of Chinese investor like anyother investor is to develop a quick, small revenue producing project to take money back to china with profit. i.e coal and gas turbine power plants. Now if our govt had little bit brain power, they would have realized that cost of such project for Pakistan economy, people and industry will be overwhelming.

1. We have to buy foreign oil or LNG or Chinese coal power plants. (Billions every years)
2. All revenue will go back to china with interest and profits. (Billions every year)
3. Cost of energy will keep getting higher and will cause inflation.
4. Higher electric price mean higher cost of production for Pakistani products.
5. Higher cost of production mean Pakistani will not be able to compete in the export market.
5. Average consumer will pay more money to foreign LNG companies and in electric bill, leaving them broke reducing local economic activity hurting local business and Tax collection.

Now on scale of having no investment to this, obviously even this is good. but what could have been done to improve this investment.

1. As per media, since Chinese are being so generous, they should been given option, b/w building dams.
2. Dams last for several decades,
3. Provides revenues in billions every year.
4. Revenue could be used for build all the other that Ahsan Iqbal has on his wish list, without foreign loan, funding or interest.
5. Cheap hydro-energy, low production cost, more exports, more money for consumer to spend, more Tax collection, more Capital in the country.
6. Once limited life cycle of LNG or coal plant is over and money recovered, Pakistan will be back in the same spot asking for another foreign investment, siting in a dark stagnant economy.

With current approach, Ashan Iqbal talk about of hundred of billions of dollars is all trash talk. If there is no money left in consumer pocket to pay for the investment, no one is investing another dime in this country.

Some of these things you've listed, I need to have a look at again. And you're right, these mistakes are the very same mistakes made during the 90's that caused the energy crisis we have today. Coal power I think it still a investment worth considering given the current crisis and need to have some sort of temporary measures in to bolster the economy a bit more, cheap and dirty. But CPEC also has within its projects lots of Hydroelectric/Hydropower, solar and wind projects.

Like I said, for things that don't seem feasible, studies can be pushed for and real pressure applied where it should be. Instead we are here discussing non-issues like the route.

Now, my post was specifically to rubbish any claims about the route alignment controversy and provincial politics games being played in this regard.
 
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Two potential answers:

1. Wait for some member to drag in conspiracy right from RAW to Mossad and CIA. That will suit the mode. :hitwall:

2. (Most likely) Problem with all the politicians on either side of the boundary (they seem to have their brains stuck in their rear ends). They fight over their egos - the nation be damned. On the other hand, Pakistan was sensible till 1970s, then you started interacting with Indian politicians ... now look what has come to pass ... your political class learning from Indian and Congress learning from Pakistan ... sarey mile hue hain ... mujhe aur tumhe ladaa key dono countries ka bewakoof bana rahey hain .... :cheers:



There is something called politics ... if there was sense, would you need to crib? The long term plan is to integrate trade across all routes, in the end, economic development will rule the roost, the national boundaries will be artificial in some more time to come.


Hi,

the long term plan needs to start somewhere as well---and not in the most disputed areas ie punjab----.

The first route must help build up the poor areas---otherwise it will be left out---because other things and issues will pop up---. It is sort of a now or never.

The Nawaz Sharif has an agenda of his own----and it is going to back fire.

Sorry, but this sort of rambling on about CPEC has been going on for too long. Misrepresentation because the government put out simplistic maps which a single dotted line running north to south giving Pakistanis the impression that CPEC is simple a monorail. Or a one way 50 lane super highway that can bend this way and that to accommodate provinces.

This is false. CPEC is not about a single road or a route, CPEC has within it multiple projects for developing industry, energy production through diversified means. Transportation is simple one aspect of it, and that aspect is covered by the development in Gwadar, the port, the city and the airport. The next aspect of transportation are the roads and railways. And there is NO one road selected as a route, there's a network of roads being built under this project. Including roads that go through KP, Sindh, Southern punjab and they are all interlinked or through one another to Gwadar.

For God sake, stop this divisive stuff, pretending that CPEC is all about a single road and route, and killing this one chance for real progress just because of nasty provincial politics.



This is not the case here, the arguments and squabbling going on are total BS. This project is good for us, and some negotiation on structural changes are to be made only if there's a reason, and then economists, engineers, developers and planners get together to discuss needs and possible approach. And then feasibility studies are conducted on whether itis possible or needed or beneficial, and then it is decided on what to do.

Here we have, people who don't know about the project, do not know the details, but are making a fuss, and offering no basis in the proper way discussed above. Simple whining and crying that it's unfair to them somehow and that the entire development needs to be halted until they get a share of the loot.

Total BS, and it makes my blood boil.


Hi,

If you say to me stop being devisive---I would reply---stop being deceitful---. The punjab route is fraudulent and deceitful---and this is typical of the Sharif family---.

There is no reason for the punjab route to be the primary route---.

If cpec has multiple projects and roads--then take the last road thru Lahore---that shouldn't be painful now.

Interlinking is trickery---why don't they interlink Lahore with those roads and let the main artery go thru the baluchistan / kpk route----.

Is there a vested interest of your's in this deal on a personal level----becaiuse your post is a little too agitated.
 
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the fact is that few countries are anti cpec and may b they have agents in Pakistan but the real problem lies within our politicial elite especially the ruling party pmln .... they want everything to go through Punjab especially Lahore... this is not only unfair with other provinces but also unfair with other cities of Punjab... why there is no transparency of cpec?? why ??

let me clear i am a Punjabi of Pakistani Punjab from Lahore but i dont wana b a grabber of my Punjabi, Pashtoon, Baloch, Sindhi, & GB brothers resources... my loyalty is with Pakistan and with all those Punjabis, Pashtoons, Balochis, Sindhis & GB Brothers first :)
 
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the fact is that few countries are anti cpec and may b they have agents in Pakistan but the real problem lies within our politicial elite especially the ruling party pmln .... they want everything to go through Punjab especially Lahore... this is not only unfair with other provinces but also unfair with other cities of Punjab... why there is no transparency of cpec?? why ??

let me clear i am a Punjabi of Pakistani Punjab from Lahore but i dont wana b a grabber of my Punjabi, Pashtoon, Baloch, Sindhi, & GB brothers resources... my loyalty is with Pakistan and with all those Punjabis, Pashtoons, Balochis, Sindhis & GB Brothers first :)


Hi,

The reason it is going thjru Lahore is because of India---Nawaz is going to be paid handsomely by India for that----
 
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Hi,

The reason it is going thjru Lahore is because of India---Nawaz is going to be paid handsomely by India for that----

i dont know if it is going through lahore because of india but it is just unjust with our Pakistani brothers
 
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Thankyou Punjab, you were responsible for the breakup of Pakistan due to your power hunger and greed and even after all that your desire of greater Punjab and domination continues.

Your love for India and its culture is unquestionable, you are a cancer in the body of Pakistan the sooner you leave the federation the better for true patriotic Pakistanis.



It is not about PtI it's about us pukhtoons and our rights, please wake up every party in KPK is united in our stance again discrimination.

Historically we have always been discriminated against and now once more we are being manipulated and the benefit goes to the big P.

Our land our rules, either our way or no CEPEC through our land.


Bit too late for that, your people have shafted us many times and we don't trust you anymore.

Hi,

You are wrong about punjab responsible for breakup of pakistan---it was a sindhi---Z A BHIUTTO-----.

As for your other rhetoric---you can address it to Nawaz Sharid---and that woul dbe better----because an average pujab has no say or idea what is happening---.

This drama was started by Nawaz to accomodate India---if pakistan gives land route for transit to india to go to afghanistan---then what would it stop them for giving them the way to go to china as well.

This is Nawaz Sharif's personal agenda---.
 
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Hi,

You are wrong about punjab responsible for breakup of pakistan---it was a sindhi---Z A BHIUTTO-----.

As for your other rhetoric---you can address it to Nawaz Sharid---and that woul dbe better----because an average pujab has no say or idea what is happening---.

This drama was started by Nawaz to accomodate India---if pakistan gives land route for transit to india to go to afghanistan---then what would it stop them for giving them the way to go to china as well.

This is Nawaz Sharif's personal agenda---.

Tikka Khan was a Punjabi so we're many others who were responsible for the breakup of Pakistan, which I personally think was a good thing.

CPEC benefitting every province is a lie, if Gwadar was not in Baluchistan then it would have been sidestepped as well.

We are made to believe that CPEC is not one route but many, if such is the case then why not with backward areas and remove any reservations those people hold.
 
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Tikka Khan was a Punjabi so we're many others who were responsible for the breakup of Pakistan, which I personally think was a good thing.

CPEC benefitting every province is a lie, if Gwadar was not in Baluchistan then it would have been sidestepped as well.

We are made to believe that CPEC is not one route but many, if such is the case then why not with backward areas and remove any reservations those people hold.

Hi,

If you think that a soldier can broke up pakistan---then you are mistaken---. It was done by the politician Z A Bhutto---militarymen are just dogs who obey the orders---( most of the time ).

I think---in your anger---you have not read my post----.

I have stated that the primary route should be and must be ba;luchistran / KPK----there is no reason for it to come this close to the indian border----that is a tactical error.

The gobvt may make the many routes after it has done the blauchistan / kpk route----.
 
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Thankyou Punjab, you broke Were responsible for the breakup of Pakistan due to your power hunger and greed and even after all that your desire of greater Punjab and domination continues.

Your love for India and its culture is unquestionable, you are a cancer in the body of Pakistan the sooner you leave the federation the better for true patriotic Pakistanis.

my indian friend its better u look somewhere else for ur problems ....it is Pakistan's internal matter and we Pakistanis will sort it out

Tikka Khan was a Punjabi so we're many others who were responsible for the breakup of Pakistan, which I personally think was a good thing.

CPEC benefitting every province is a lie, if Gwadar was not in Baluchistan then it would have been sidestepped as well.

We are made to believe that CPEC is not one route but many, if such is the case then why not with backward areas and remove any reservations those people hold.

General Tikka Khan was from the Hazara community u dumb
 
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