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China-Tibet Relations, Past & Present

3. Tibet, before occupation, was a nation with an established sovereign government, currency, postal system, language, legal system, and culture. Prior to 1950, the Tibetan government also signed treaties with foreign nations. The Chinese government claims that Tibet has always been part of China, yet its invasion of Tibet resembles imperialist aggression that China accuses other powers of exhibiting.

Nonsense

If Tibet is not part of China
How can you explain the Minister in Tibet of Qing Dynasty?
How can you explain the commissioner in Tibet of Republic of China goverment before 1949?

How can you explain Dalai Lama position in PRC as Vice-Chairman of Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference?
 
have a test,see what is the result,it would be interesting for you.



I had no intent to read others.one million death of Tibetans.what a joke?do you know how many people are there in Tibet now?2810 thousand,do you know how many people in Tibet at time of 1949,1140 thousand.1964,1250 thousand.how could you find one million people in tibet to kill?

one million death of tibetans,do you believe stupid lies like these kind?

even CPC want to put down rebellion,they need not kill one million people.sometimes,you can scare away thousand of people by just one shot.

frankly speaking,if CPC had killed one million tibetans,why not kill another million,kill all,then there are no more problem from tibetans ever since.what the different of Political impact between killing one million and killing two million?either way CPC would be scold by people all over the world.why not kill all,at least CPC can achieve the aim of resovle Tibet issue forever.

I had heard that there are 86000 people were killed by Indian army in Kashmir,I think this number sound much more reasonable than one million.

We only have the version of chinese government, who happen to be indulging in propoganda, with respect to any thing that is against its imperialistic intentions. Hence i guess no one will ever know.. what is the truth..!!! Well yes in kashmir official death figures is around 43000 well it may be higher.. but not just by army by the insurgency... as a whole...!! See.. that is called freedom of press. You know whats happening in kashmir... whther good or bad.. no one knows the fate of tibetans in tibet... or the true picture for that matter.....!!!
 
Nonsense

If Tibet is not part of China
How can you explain the Minister in Tibet of Qing Dynasty?
How can you explain the commissioner in Tibet of Republic of China goverment before 1949?

How can you explain Dalai Lama position in PRC as Vice-Chairman of Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference?

Historical relations between Tibet and China

Located on the high altitude plateau thrown up by the Himalayas, despite its geographic remoteness, Tibet has played a crucial role in key historical developments in Asia. This has ranged from the Dalai Lama’s special relationship with the Mongol Emperors to Tibet’s role in the Great Game between Russia and Britain in the early 20th century. Throughout Tibet’s long history it has been clear to Tibetans and their neighbours that Tibet possesses a distinct cultural, religious, linguistic and ethnic identity. This distinct identity is very different from that of China.

As the era of nation states emerged in the early 20th century, Tibet under the 13th Dalai Lama declared independence, but maintained a policy of distance and disengagement from the outside world. Until the invasion of Tibet by the People’s Liberation Army led by the Chinese Communists in 1949, China had exercised no direct control over Tibet.

Relations between the Tibetan Kings and the Chinese Tang Dynasty (7th-9th Centuries)

The first recorded contacts between Tibetans and Chinese took place in the 7th century, following the unification of Tibet under King Songtsen Gampo and the establishment of the Chinese Tang Dynasty. Two incidents are regularly mentioned during discussion of this period: the marriage of a Chinese princess to Songtsen Gampo in 641, and a peace pledge signed between the two countries in 821, recorded on stone pillars.

The Chinese claim that through this marriage and a series of meetings and alliances, the Tibetans and Chinese "cemented political and kinship ties of unity and formed close economic and cultural relations, laying a solid foundation for the ultimate founding of a unified nation" (Tibet: Its Ownership and Human Rights Situation, China White Paper, 1992, p.3).

In fact, these incidents show that at this time Tibet and China were independent states of equal strength. The marriage alliance of 641 was sought by the Chinese after Tibetan armies had captured towns in Sichuan province (Tibet: A Political History, Tsepon W.D. Shakabpa, 1967, p.26). Despite its familial language (the so-called "uncle-nephew" relationship), the treaty of 821 actually defined relations between two "fully sovereign states" (Tibet and Imperial China, Josef Kolmas, 1967, p.11).


Relations between the Tibetan Kings and the Chinese Tang Dynasty (7th-9th Centuries)

The first recorded contacts between Tibetans and Chinese took place in the 7th century, following the unification of Tibet under King Songtsen Gampo and the establishment of the Chinese Tang Dynasty. Two incidents are regularly mentioned during discussion of this period: the marriage of a Chinese princess to Songtsen Gampo in 641, and a peace pledge signed between the two countries in 821, recorded on stone pillars.

The Chinese claim that through this marriage and a series of meetings and alliances, the Tibetans and Chinese "cemented political and kinship ties of unity and formed close economic and cultural relations, laying a solid foundation for the ultimate founding of a unified nation" (Tibet: Its Ownership and Human Rights Situation, China White Paper, 1992, p.3).

In fact, these incidents show that at this time Tibet and China were independent states of equal strength. The marriage alliance of 641 was sought by the Chinese after Tibetan armies had captured towns in Sichuan province (Tibet: A Political History, Tsepon W.D. Shakabpa, 1967, p.26). Despite its familial language (the so-called "uncle-nephew" relationship), the treaty of 821 actually defined relations between two "fully sovereign states" (Tibet and Imperial China, Josef Kolmas, 1967, p.11).

Tibet and China under the Mongols: The Yuan Dynasty (13th-14th Centuries)

During the early 13th century, Genghis Khan united the nomadic tribes of north Asia into a powerful Mongol confederation, which soon grew into a continent-spanning empire. Both Tibet and China fell under the control of this empire: the Tibetans after peaceful submission 1244-47, and the Chinese following the defeat of the Jin Dynasty in northern China (1234) and the subsequent Mongol conquest of the southern Song Dynasty (1235-79). Chinese historians now claim that Tibet was thus "officially incorporated into the territory of China's Yuan Dynasty" (China White Paper, p.3). They then go on to argue, inexplicably, that "this unification of the whole nation conformed to the advance of history and the desire of all nationalities" (Highlights of Tibetan History, Wang Furen & Suo Wenqing, 1984, p.57).

That Tibet and China both came under the political influence of the Mongols cannot be construed as a unification of the two countries. Northern Burma, North Vietnam, Korea and large areas of Siberia were likewise all part of the vast Mongol Empire, yet none are claimed by Beijing today. In fact, Tibetan monks enjoyed some dominance in religious affairs, after Tibetan Buddhism was made the official religion of the Mongol Empire.

The Emergence of the Dalai Lamas and the Chinese Ming Dynasty (15th-17th Centuries)

By the 15th century, political authority in Tibet had passed into the hands of contending religious hegemonies, which were eventually replaced by the Ganden Phodrang government of the Dalai Lamas. In China, the native Ming Dynasty overthrew the Mongols, and then concentrated much of its attention on economic expansion and maritime exploration.

One of the most incredible Chinese arguments is that the Ming Dynasty somehow inherited a territorial claim to Tibet from the Mongols. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Tibet was subordinate to China at this stage. Communication between the Ming emperors and Tibetan lamas continued, but there is some contention about its level and significance. Again, during this period both Tibet and China existed as separate and fully sovereign states.

Tibet under the Influence of the Manchus: The Qing Dynasty (18th-19th Centuries)

In 1644, Manchu armies captured Beijing and established the Qing Dynasty. During their expansion into southern China, local resistance was crushed with brutal violence. In Tibet therefore, the 5th Dalai Lama sought to establish peaceful relations with this emerging Manchu power, and was subsequently invited to Beijing in 1652.

Over the course of the next 50 years, the Manchus were able to exploit differences between rival groups within the Tibetan Government, and so established some degree of influence in Lhasa: Manchu officials called 'ambans' were stationed there from 1728 until the fall of the dynasty in 1911. There is, however, much disagreement over the actual extent of their power. Chinese claims that the ambans enjoyed "equal standing with the Dalai Lama and the Bainqen Erdeni (Panchen Lama)" (China White Paper, p.8) are exaggerated, and even during a period of Manchu expansion under the Qianlong Emperor (1736-95), they were instructed "not to interfere in the internal policies of Tibet and to refrain from exploitation" (Tibet: A Political History, p.148).

Tibet did fall under some form of Manchu "protection" at this time - subordinate in name to a government in Beijing; and the region of Amdo was placed under direct military control after an anti-Manchu uprising in 1724. But this government and occupation, just like that of the Mongols, was not of ethnic Chinese composition, and suggestions that Tibet became an integral part of a "Chinese" empire during this period are wholly indefensible.

Tibet Subject to 'Western Aggression': The Simla Convention (1914)

By the end of the 19th century Tibet had acquired massive strategic importance for Britain and Russia, as both were in the process of expanding their imperial "spheres of influence" in Central Asia. After a series of trade missions and then military expeditions (such as the Younghusband expedition of 1904, which exposed the weakness of the Manchu hold over Tibet), the British were able to gain an advantage, and so convened a tripartite conference to discuss Tibet's status at Simla in 1914.

The Tibetans arrived at the conference with written evidence proving the historical independence of Tibet. The Chinese delegation simply argued that Tibet's subjugation by the Mongols and the Manchus proved it had become an integral part of China, and should therefore now be ruled as part of the new Republic of China from Beijing. Negotiations were difficult, and the solution eventually put forward recognised Chinese "suzerainty" over Tibet, but guaranteed the autonomy of western Tibet, and provided for complete Tibetan control over internal affairs. The Chinese representative at the conference initialled the agreement, but did not proceed to a full signature under pressure from Beijing. Britain and Tibet then declared that they would abide by the provisions of the agreement, while China would be unable to enjoy any of the privileges contained within.

The Chinese now claim that their failure to sign the agreement left it "null and void", and argue that "the Simla Conference has gone down in the annals as an ignominious deed by British imperialism" (Highlights of Tibetan History, p.153). The legal status of the Simla Convention is still open to debate, but its true significance lies in its recognition of Tibet as an independent nation with which binding agreements could be negotiated (e.g.: the Lhasa Treaty of 1904). Throughout the Nationalist (Guomindang) period, no Chinese government was able to exert any influence over Tibet.

Communist Invasion (1949-59)

The invasion of Tibet by troops from the People's Liberation Army in 1949-50 is described in official Chinese histories as a "peaceful liberation". A 17 Point Agreement was signed between the Communist Government and Tibetan officials in May 1951, which apparently "enjoyed the approval and support of the people from every ethnic group in Tibet" (China White Paper, p.14).

In fact, discrimination and the suppression of traditional practices in eastern Tibet drove hundreds of Tibetans up into the mountains to engage in guerrilla warfare, while thousands more fled west to Lhasa to escape Chinese persecution. In March 1959, growing Tibetan resistance exploded in an uprising against the Chinese occupation. The 14th Dalai Lama fled into exile in northern India, and the subsequent Chinese crackdown in Tibet was brutal. Even the Chinese figures record 87,000 deaths in the National Uprising and its aftermath; Tibetan sources suggest as many as 430,000 were killed in the Uprising and subsequent years of guerrilla warfare.

Conclusion

Over the course of their historical relations, Tibet and China passed through periods of strength and dominance and times of weakness and division. Both were able to threaten or influence their neighbours on occasion. But East Asian perceptions of international relations were fluid enough that countries could be subordinate to a neighbour, even for considerable periods of time, without losing their sense of independence. This was especially true in cases where a nation was able to maintain a distinct identity.

Many modern Chinese historians have claimed that those countries which fell under the imperial influence of various Chinese dynasties somehow became integral parts of China. This is a misleading argument, based solely upon a doctrinaire misinterpretation of historical facts. Tibet has always maintained a distinct cultural, religious, linguistic and ethnic identity, and this is proof enough to support its claims to independence.

You may read the above article..!!!!
 
Doesn't it chinese government block youtube videos and international news related to Tibet protest?
 
Historical relations between Tibet and China

Located on the high altitude plateau thrown up by the Himalayas, despite its geographic remoteness, Tibet has played a crucial role in key historical developments in Asia. This has ranged from the Dalai Lama’s special relationship with the Mongol Emperors to Tibet’s role in the Great Game between Russia and Britain in the early 20th century. Throughout Tibet’s long history it has been clear to Tibetans and their neighbours that Tibet possesses a distinct cultural, religious, linguistic and ethnic identity. This distinct identity is very different from that of China.

As the era of nation states emerged in the early 20th century, Tibet under the 13th Dalai Lama declared independence, but maintained a policy of distance and disengagement from the outside world. Until the invasion of Tibet by the People’s Liberation Army led by the Chinese Communists in 1949, China had exercised no direct control over Tibet.

Relations between the Tibetan Kings and the Chinese Tang Dynasty (7th-9th Centuries)

The first recorded contacts between Tibetans and Chinese took place in the 7th century, following the unification of Tibet under King Songtsen Gampo and the establishment of the Chinese Tang Dynasty. Two incidents are regularly mentioned during discussion of this period: the marriage of a Chinese princess to Songtsen Gampo in 641, and a peace pledge signed between the two countries in 821, recorded on stone pillars.

The Chinese claim that through this marriage and a series of meetings and alliances, the Tibetans and Chinese "cemented political and kinship ties of unity and formed close economic and cultural relations, laying a solid foundation for the ultimate founding of a unified nation" (Tibet: Its Ownership and Human Rights Situation, China White Paper, 1992, p.3).

In fact, these incidents show that at this time Tibet and China were independent states of equal strength. The marriage alliance of 641 was sought by the Chinese after Tibetan armies had captured towns in Sichuan province (Tibet: A Political History, Tsepon W.D. Shakabpa, 1967, p.26). Despite its familial language (the so-called "uncle-nephew" relationship), the treaty of 821 actually defined relations between two "fully sovereign states" (Tibet and Imperial China, Josef Kolmas, 1967, p.11).


Relations between the Tibetan Kings and the Chinese Tang Dynasty (7th-9th Centuries)

The first recorded contacts between Tibetans and Chinese took place in the 7th century, following the unification of Tibet under King Songtsen Gampo and the establishment of the Chinese Tang Dynasty. Two incidents are regularly mentioned during discussion of this period: the marriage of a Chinese princess to Songtsen Gampo in 641, and a peace pledge signed between the two countries in 821, recorded on stone pillars.

The Chinese claim that through this marriage and a series of meetings and alliances, the Tibetans and Chinese "cemented political and kinship ties of unity and formed close economic and cultural relations, laying a solid foundation for the ultimate founding of a unified nation" (Tibet: Its Ownership and Human Rights Situation, China White Paper, 1992, p.3).

In fact, these incidents show that at this time Tibet and China were independent states of equal strength. The marriage alliance of 641 was sought by the Chinese after Tibetan armies had captured towns in Sichuan province (Tibet: A Political History, Tsepon W.D. Shakabpa, 1967, p.26). Despite its familial language (the so-called "uncle-nephew" relationship), the treaty of 821 actually defined relations between two "fully sovereign states" (Tibet and Imperial China, Josef Kolmas, 1967, p.11).

Tibet and China under the Mongols: The Yuan Dynasty (13th-14th Centuries)

During the early 13th century, Genghis Khan united the nomadic tribes of north Asia into a powerful Mongol confederation, which soon grew into a continent-spanning empire. Both Tibet and China fell under the control of this empire: the Tibetans after peaceful submission 1244-47, and the Chinese following the defeat of the Jin Dynasty in northern China (1234) and the subsequent Mongol conquest of the southern Song Dynasty (1235-79). Chinese historians now claim that Tibet was thus "officially incorporated into the territory of China's Yuan Dynasty" (China White Paper, p.3). They then go on to argue, inexplicably, that "this unification of the whole nation conformed to the advance of history and the desire of all nationalities" (Highlights of Tibetan History, Wang Furen & Suo Wenqing, 1984, p.57).

That Tibet and China both came under the political influence of the Mongols cannot be construed as a unification of the two countries. Northern Burma, North Vietnam, Korea and large areas of Siberia were likewise all part of the vast Mongol Empire, yet none are claimed by Beijing today. In fact, Tibetan monks enjoyed some dominance in religious affairs, after Tibetan Buddhism was made the official religion of the Mongol Empire.

The Emergence of the Dalai Lamas and the Chinese Ming Dynasty (15th-17th Centuries)

By the 15th century, political authority in Tibet had passed into the hands of contending religious hegemonies, which were eventually replaced by the Ganden Phodrang government of the Dalai Lamas. In China, the native Ming Dynasty overthrew the Mongols, and then concentrated much of its attention on economic expansion and maritime exploration.

One of the most incredible Chinese arguments is that the Ming Dynasty somehow inherited a territorial claim to Tibet from the Mongols. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Tibet was subordinate to China at this stage. Communication between the Ming emperors and Tibetan lamas continued, but there is some contention about its level and significance. Again, during this period both Tibet and China existed as separate and fully sovereign states.

Tibet under the Influence of the Manchus: The Qing Dynasty (18th-19th Centuries)

In 1644, Manchu armies captured Beijing and established the Qing Dynasty. During their expansion into southern China, local resistance was crushed with brutal violence. In Tibet therefore, the 5th Dalai Lama sought to establish peaceful relations with this emerging Manchu power, and was subsequently invited to Beijing in 1652.

Over the course of the next 50 years, the Manchus were able to exploit differences between rival groups within the Tibetan Government, and so established some degree of influence in Lhasa: Manchu officials called 'ambans' were stationed there from 1728 until the fall of the dynasty in 1911. There is, however, much disagreement over the actual extent of their power. Chinese claims that the ambans enjoyed "equal standing with the Dalai Lama and the Bainqen Erdeni (Panchen Lama)" (China White Paper, p.8) are exaggerated, and even during a period of Manchu expansion under the Qianlong Emperor (1736-95), they were instructed "not to interfere in the internal policies of Tibet and to refrain from exploitation" (Tibet: A Political History, p.148).

Tibet did fall under some form of Manchu "protection" at this time - subordinate in name to a government in Beijing; and the region of Amdo was placed under direct military control after an anti-Manchu uprising in 1724. But this government and occupation, just like that of the Mongols, was not of ethnic Chinese composition, and suggestions that Tibet became an integral part of a "Chinese" empire during this period are wholly indefensible.

Tibet Subject to 'Western Aggression': The Simla Convention (1914)

By the end of the 19th century Tibet had acquired massive strategic importance for Britain and Russia, as both were in the process of expanding their imperial "spheres of influence" in Central Asia. After a series of trade missions and then military expeditions (such as the Younghusband expedition of 1904, which exposed the weakness of the Manchu hold over Tibet), the British were able to gain an advantage, and so convened a tripartite conference to discuss Tibet's status at Simla in 1914.

The Tibetans arrived at the conference with written evidence proving the historical independence of Tibet. The Chinese delegation simply argued that Tibet's subjugation by the Mongols and the Manchus proved it had become an integral part of China, and should therefore now be ruled as part of the new Republic of China from Beijing. Negotiations were difficult, and the solution eventually put forward recognised Chinese "suzerainty" over Tibet, but guaranteed the autonomy of western Tibet, and provided for complete Tibetan control over internal affairs. The Chinese representative at the conference initialled the agreement, but did not proceed to a full signature under pressure from Beijing. Britain and Tibet then declared that they would abide by the provisions of the agreement, while China would be unable to enjoy any of the privileges contained within.

The Chinese now claim that their failure to sign the agreement left it "null and void", and argue that "the Simla Conference has gone down in the annals as an ignominious deed by British imperialism" (Highlights of Tibetan History, p.153). The legal status of the Simla Convention is still open to debate, but its true significance lies in its recognition of Tibet as an independent nation with which binding agreements could be negotiated (e.g.: the Lhasa Treaty of 1904). Throughout the Nationalist (Guomindang) period, no Chinese government was able to exert any influence over Tibet.

Communist Invasion (1949-59)

The invasion of Tibet by troops from the People's Liberation Army in 1949-50 is described in official Chinese histories as a "peaceful liberation". A 17 Point Agreement was signed between the Communist Government and Tibetan officials in May 1951, which apparently "enjoyed the approval and support of the people from every ethnic group in Tibet" (China White Paper, p.14).

In fact, discrimination and the suppression of traditional practices in eastern Tibet drove hundreds of Tibetans up into the mountains to engage in guerrilla warfare, while thousands more fled west to Lhasa to escape Chinese persecution. In March 1959, growing Tibetan resistance exploded in an uprising against the Chinese occupation. The 14th Dalai Lama fled into exile in northern India, and the subsequent Chinese crackdown in Tibet was brutal. Even the Chinese figures record 87,000 deaths in the National Uprising and its aftermath; Tibetan sources suggest as many as 430,000 were killed in the Uprising and subsequent years of guerrilla warfare.

Conclusion

Over the course of their historical relations, Tibet and China passed through periods of strength and dominance and times of weakness and division. Both were able to threaten or influence their neighbours on occasion. But East Asian perceptions of international relations were fluid enough that countries could be subordinate to a neighbour, even for considerable periods of time, without losing their sense of independence. This was especially true in cases where a nation was able to maintain a distinct identity.

Many modern Chinese historians have claimed that those countries which fell under the imperial influence of various Chinese dynasties somehow became integral parts of China. This is a misleading argument, based solely upon a doctrinaire misinterpretation of historical facts. Tibet has always maintained a distinct cultural, religious, linguistic and ethnic identity, and this is proof enough to support its claims to independence.

You may read the above article..!!!!

From your article , we confirm that tibet is part of China,
Just like Hongkong today.

Especially in Qing Danasty, central goverment minister in tibet have direct administration area and troops. Dalai lama adminstrate one part ,
Panchen Lama adminstrate one part which today occupied by India.

Most important of all, The Dalai lama must be approved by the Emperor.

I don't want to explain too much about the relationship between Manchu
with Chinese. coz Nurhachu is a local officials of Ming Dynasty.

Yongzheng Emperor of Qing Danasty write a book named 《大义觉迷录》
In this book, he said the minority and Han nationality are all Chinese .

So we declare Tibet is part of China is true whether in history or in law
 
We only have the version of chinese government, who happen to be indulging in propoganda, with respect to any thing that is against its imperialistic intentions. Hence i guess no one will ever know.. what is the truth..!!! Well yes in kashmir official death figures is around 43000 well it may be higher.. but not just by army by the insurgency... as a whole...!! See.. that is called freedom of press. You know whats happening in kashmir... whther good or bad.. no one knows the fate of tibetans in tibet... or the true picture for that matter.....!!!

Please save us your BS.....the indian never let the international media have total free access to kashmir during the last 10-15 years.
Tibet is a part of china just like other parts of indian occupied china.
 
Tibet: Proving Truth from Facts - Preface

As the international community takes an increasingly keen interest in the question of Tibet, the demand for information grows. The world is no longer obsessed with the political ideological conflict between the two superpowers of the Cold War period, so that Governments and non-governmental actors can, once again, turn to other burning problems, such as the situation in Tibet. Many Governments are in the process of reviewing their foreign policy on many fronts. They should also thoroughly review their Tibet policy in line with the post-cold war international reality.
Initiatives by parliaments and conferences in different parts of the world to address the human rights situation in Tibet and its underlying political cause as well as moves by a growing number of countries to take up the issue again at the United Nations have met with strong resistance from the Government of the People's Republic of China. One of the results have been a stream of propaganda booklets, following the Stalinist and Maoist tradition, intended to convince foreign readers of China's right to rule Tibet and the great benefit it brought to the people of Tibet.

The Present document, Tibet: Proving Truth from Facts, is intended to respond to the new demand for concise information on key points of the Tibetan question, and at the same time, to serve as a response to the Chinese propaganda, particularly as contained in Chinese State Council's White Paper. The Tibetan Government-in-Exile does not have the resources to respond to each misrepresentation of the Tibetan situation which appears in the Chinese propaganda. But truth being on the side of the Tibetan people, we feel the need from time to time to restate the facts plainly, as they really are, and trust that this will serve the cause of truth and justice.

This publication touches upon many areas of concern: the fundamental question of the status of Tibet, the validity of China's claim to "ownership" of it and Tibetan people's right to self-determination; the "17-Point Agreement" and its effect on Tibet's status; the events surrounding the resistance to Chinese rule and the Dalai Lama's flight to India; the Tibetan social system before the Chinese occupation and democratic reforms initiated by the Dalai Lama; human rights conditions in occupied-Tibet; deprivation of religious freedom; socio-economic conditions and colonialism; population transfer and control; the state of Tibet's environment; issues related to the militarisation of Tibet; and the efforts that have been undertaken to find a solution to the question of Tibet.

One aspect of the Tibetan situation has been insufficiently highlighted in the past, even though it is fundamental to understanding the context of much of what is happening in Tibet today. This is the profoundly colonialist nature of Chinese rule in Tibet. We tend to identify colonialism with European colonial expansion in the past two centuries. But, as the Malaysian, Irish and other governments pointed out during the United Nations General assembly debates on the Question of Tibet, colonialism in all its manifestations must be brought to an end, whether perpetrated by countries in the West or the East.

The Chinese themselves view Tibet in colonial terms: that is, not as part of China proper, but as non-Chinese territory which China has a right to own and exploit, on the basis of relationship that existed 700 years ago, or, at best, 200 years ago. This attitude is evident already from the title of the Chinese Government's White Paper, which refers to the "ownership" of Tibet. If Tibet were truly an integral part of China for hundreds of years, as China claims, Tibet could not form the object of "ownership" by the country it is already a part of. The very notion of "ownership" of Tibet by China is colonialist and imperialist in nature.

Colonialism is characterised by a number of important elements, all of which are abundantly present in China's rule over Tibet. The most common characteristics of colonialism are:


domination by an alien power;

acquisition of control through military force, unequal treaty;

frequent insistence that the colony is an integral part of the "mother" state;

maintenance of control through instruments of military or administrative and economic power in the hands of the colonial power;

active or passive rejection of alien domination by the colonised people;

suppression, by force if necessary, of persons opposing colonial rule;

chauvinism and discrimination;

the imposition of alien cultural, social and ideological values claimed to be "civilising";

the imposition of economic development programmes and the exploitation of natural resources of the colony, primarily for the benefit of the colonial power;

promotion of population transfer of citizens of the metropolitan state into the colony and other forms of demographic manipulation;

disregard for the natural environment in the colony; and, in most cases,

an obsessive desire to hold on to the colony despite the political and economic cost.

Most of these characteristics are discussed in this document. Some of these issues are also discussed in the Chinese White Paper on Tibet, in a manner and style which only confirms the colonialist or imperialist view of Tibet held by China's leadership.
 
Historical relations between Tibet and China


...
The Tibetans arrived at the conference with written evidence proving the historical independence of Tibet. The Chinese delegation simply argued that Tibet's subjugation by the Mongols and the Manchus proved it had become an integral part of China, and should therefore now be ruled as part of the new Republic of China from Beijing....

Yuan and Qing dynasties both proclaimed that they be officially assimilated by Chinese culture and deemed themselves as official heirs of China and Chinese culture. Thus, ROC’s claim that Tibet was an integral part of China couldn't be more true.


...The Chinese representative at the conference initialled the agreement, but did not proceed to a full signature under pressure from Beijing...

The representative might have initialed the agreement under the threat of life or been influenced by bribery (as many Indian officials do today). The central government had the ultimate power to make final decision. The type of process even exist today (in US, for instance), event the signature of president is not decisive. It is Congress, representing the power of the state, that has to finalized (ratify) it. I don’t know why this is an issue, much less a problem, if not apparently the separatists and their pitiful trumpeters found themselves miserably exhausted with excuses.

For those who are ignorant of Chinese history and are too lazy to learn, your sort of funny “theory” can only get a buy by ignorant or maliciously intentioned Westerners and their running jackals, which in turn put themselves in a laughable spot when they use the theory.

Just let you know that, in history, China was once composed of 7 small countries. It doesn’t mean China has to become 7 pieces again. Perhaps some evil Indians (and Chinese separatists as well) love to see that. But that was history where there was nothing called India.

Why don't you talk to your democratic government first, as your government also, much to your horror, recognized Tibet is an integral part of China. If you can’t change your Indians’ mindset, how do you expect to change Chinese mindset?

Here is the right conclusion:

Conclusion:

Both the government of India and government of China, like every government in the world, solemn recognize that Tibet is an integral part of China, respective or irrespective of Tibet history.
 
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Thread name changed to "China-Tibet Relations, Past & Present"
 
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China 'blocks YouTube video site'

China is reported to have blocked the YouTube video-sharing website because it has been carrying video of soldiers beating monks and other Tibetans.

The date and location of the footage, posted by a Tibetan exile group, cannot be ascertained.

A Chinese government spokesman would not confirm whether YouTube had indeed been blocked.

China has a history of blocking websites which carry messages it views as politically unacceptable.

In most of China, YouTube has suddenly become inaccessible.

The site has been carrying a graphic video released by Tibetan exiles, which shows hundreds of uniformed Chinese troops swarming through a Tibetan monastery - a group of troops beat a man with batons.

In another scene a group of men, including a monk, are beaten, kicked and choked, while they lie on the ground. Some have their hands tied others appear to be unconscious.

The date and locations of the footage cannot be confirmed. Beijing maintains that it dealt lawfully with last years protests in Tibet.

On Tuesday, a Foreign Ministry spokesman said that China "is not afraid of the internet". However, he was unable to confirm if YouTube had been blocked.
 
Please save us your BS.....the indian never let the international media have total free access to kashmir during the last 10-15 years.
Tibet is a part of china just like other parts of indian occupied china.

Please go to Youtube, and search for kashmir..!!! You will get clips made by official news agencies as well as countless videos..!!!So i think that can help you clear your ignorance.

However Indian occupied china??? Well on what basis??? And i do have a question for you, do you agree with those barbarians who demolished babri masjid, saying there was a temple there in some God,knows what century..!!!!!
 
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We only have the version of chinese government, who happen to be indulging in propoganda, with respect to any thing that is against its imperialistic intentions.

Well yes in kashmir official death figures is around 43000 well it may be higher.. but not just by army by the insurgency... as a whole...!!
isn't this figures the version of Indian govt?should we said this figures be indulging in propoganda of Indian imperialistic intentions?

OK,even I believe there had been Indian imperialistic intention indulging this figure of 43000.I would never tend to believe something like one million death.

it is not about prejudice,it is about IQ.

you'd better teach them Logic and mathematic before they begin their work of lying.expecially put emphasis on using of Zero.
 
Dalai Lama spat postpones peace talks
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25239196-401,00.html

A SOUTH African peace conference involving Nobel laureates was postponed today over Pretoria's refusal to grant a visa to the Dalai Lama, angering the grandson of Nelson Mandela.

Mandla Mandela, who helped plan the event, said the rejection of the Dalai Lama was "unfortunate'' and tainted his illustrious grandfather's efforts to bring democracy to South Africa.

"It's a sad day for South Africa. It's a sad day for Africa,'' he said.

Nelson Mandela, along with Archbishop Desmond Tutu and former president FW de Klerk, were to host the peace conference on Friday in Johannesburg, bringing together Nobel laureates from around the world.

The conference was to discuss how soccer can fight racism and xenophobia, as South Africa prepares to host the 2010 World Cup.

Officially South Africa says it does not want a visit by the Dalai Lama to draw attention away from preparations for the World Cup, insisting that his visit has merely been "postponed.''

Thabo Masebe, spokesman for President Kgalema Motlanthe, said he could not say when the Dalai Lama would be allowed to visit.
We made the decision. We stand by the decision. Nothing is going to change,'' he said.

Now that the peace conference has been scuppered, the event's chairman Irvin Khoza said he did not know when it would be rescheduled.

Tutu and De Klerk had earlier indicated they would withdraw from the event over the controversy, while the Nobel peace committee said it would have to withdraw its support unless the Dalai Lama was allowed to attend.
 
I think any discussion about Tibet is a waste of time. Why don't we go find some Tibetan girls, gosh, some of them are pretty gorgeous, being wild and sketchy sometimes though!
 

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