China threatens its Neighbours

[RollingStones]

whatever you do, you cannot detect nuclear submarines or the noiseless diesels. All other projects are a waste of time and money. Once, it has been proven that undetectable SLBMS can be parked in South China Sea and China can hardly do anything about it, all other muscle flexing is just a sheer waster. The world has a 100% guaranteed solution to lay waste to China's cities should it misbehave and that is all that is required. Any additional budgets, stealth fighters are all useless. They'll help you fight against countries who cant get any allies. But, of very little use against richer/poorer well integrated countries, who can deploy a dozen SLBMs in the S. China sea in under an hour. My point is a 100% fool proof, minimum deterrent already exists to contain China. Why should the world or anyone be bothered about all the surplus things China is doing? It is your money. Do whatever you want with it.

 

[Obambam]

Ok..lets put it this way. It is called minimum deterrent. The minimum deterrent against china is to be able to deploy a dozen SLBMs in South China Sea with nukes that target all of your eastern sea board cities. Or from Japanese Aegis destroyers toward Beijing. That's all the budget and capability that is required. Everything else is a plus. All these countries I mentioned jointly or partly or severally are monetarily and weapon-wise capable of doing that. The point is minimum deterrent against China is easily achieved. This is why these nations hardly bother about Chinese military spending as "minimum deterrent" is what is required. For example, despite all its spending, India cannot go to war with Pakistan as Pakistan already has a minimum deterrent in place. Scenarios exist where countries like Vietnam can be quickly equipped to possess a minimum deterrent against China. So, how can you be cocksure about "crushing" other nations, even poorer nations? I am not sure what your "acceptable loss" calculations are.

Yes minimum deterrent helps safeguard world powers from being invaded. Just like how the Chinese Song class submarine sneaked up to the USN carrier undetected until it emerged from striking distance in 2008 and how Chinese greeted US with a submarine launched missle on their west coast last year. We are at the age where we can both turn eachother's country into toxicated soup. This makes war between China, Russia and the US improbable. Still, we have to further our spending on the military and improve on our techonlogy for the sake of modernization and posture.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The problem lies within the fact that you have to already possess minimum deterrant. It took China 9 years to make a nuclear weapon, 5 more to make a delivery vehicle and 20 to make a nuclear submarine, deployed 4 years after France's. These things don't grow on trees and no one exports strategic nuclear submarines. You think US will export Ohio class subs to Japan/South Korea?

After the WWII treaty, no way Japan can get nukes in the next 20 years.

South Korea doesn't have any backbone of technology, i doubt they can build up the platforms of land/air/sea for the nuclear deterrence.

 

[RollingStones]

Absolutely. The US (just like Russia leases to India) will lease to Japan/SK/Taiwan. Why you may ask? It is simple. I hate to repeat: minimum deterrent - prevents all wars. But, it is a game of chess. China already knows this will happen. So, right now, it is all a stalemate. So, "crushing" countries simply does not arise.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

whatever you do, you cannot detect nuclear submarines or the noiseless diesels. All other projects are a waste of time and money. Once, it has been proven that undetectable SLBMS can be parked in South China Sea and China can hardly do anything about it, all other muscle flexing is just a sheer waster. The world has a 100% guaranteed solution to lay waste to China's cities should it misbehave and that is all that is required. Any additional budgets, stealth fighters are all useless. They'll help you fight against countries who cant get any allies. But, of very little use against richer/poorer well integrated countries, who can deploy a dozen SLBMs in the S. China sea in under an hour. My point is a 100% fool proof, minimum deterrent already exists to contain China. Why should the world or anyone be bothered about all the surplus things China is doing? It is your money. Do whatever you want with it.

Yep your adopted country (America) has the balls to attack weaker countries like Vietnam and Afghanistan. (And then get humiliated).

However what happened in the Georgian war in 2008? Just one hint of being up against an actual nuclear power caused America to back off and leave Georgia to the Russians.

Even North Korea, with it's tiny nuclear devices is enough to scare the USA off from an invasion.

 

[below_freezing]

whatever you do, you cannot detect nuclear submarines or the noiseless diesels. All other projects are a waste of time and money. Once, it has been proven that undetectable SLBMS can be parked in South China Sea and China can hardly do anything about it, all other muscle flexing is just a sheer waster. The world has a 100% guaranteed solution to lay waste to China's cities should it misbehave and that is all that is required. Any additional budgets, stealth fighters are all useless. They'll help you fight against countries who cant get any allies. But, of very little use against richer/poorer well integrated countries, who can deploy a dozen SLBMs in the S. China sea in under an hour. My point is a 100% fool proof, minimum deterrent already exists to contain China. Why should the world or anyone be bothered about all the surplus things China is doing? It is your money. Do whatever you want with it.

Who told you you can't detect nuclear subs? Nuclear subs are the least stealthy subs. They can be tracked from the air by the rising hot water exhausted from their cooling systems for managing decay heat and this hot water is exhausted 24 hours a day 7 days a week whether the sub is moving or not. There are no nuclear missile diesel subs. We're not even talking sonar and ships, just talking about airplanes with a 500 dollar IR camera.

 

[ares]

Yes minimum deterrent helps safeguard world powers from being invaded. Just like how the Chinese Song class submarine sneaked up to the USN carrier undetected until it emerged from striking distance in 2008 and how Chinese greeted US with a submarine launched missle on their west coast last year. We are at the age where we can both turn eachother's country into toxicated soup. This makes war between China, Russia and the US improbable. Still, we have to further our spending on the military and improve on our techonlogy for the sake of modernization and posture.

Don't you think India doesnot has similar minimum deterence in Place viz-a-vis China ..Considering we first conducted nuclear test in 1974 itself and then tested Thermonuclear device in 1998?..All major Chinese Cities including Bejing are in Indian missiles range.

 

[RollingStones]

Ok. Agreed.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Don't you think India doesnot have similar minimum deterence in Place viz-a-vis China ..Considering we first conducted nuclear test in 1974 itself and then tested Thermonuclear device in 1998?..All major Chinese Cities including Bejing are in Indian missiles range.

Yes India with its entire nuclear arsenal being about 1 megaton in total. Compared to 294 megatons for China.

To achieve "assured destruction" you need to be able to make a country lose sovereignty.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Absolutely. The US (just like Russia leases to India) will lease to Japan/SK/Taiwan. Why you may ask? It is simple. I hate to repeat: minimum deterrent - prevents all wars. But, it is a game of chess. China already knows this will happen. So, right now, it is all a stalemate. So, "crushing" countries simply does not arise.

Are you a troll or what? US leases SSBN to other nations? Gimme a break.

Even it is true, i doubt these nations can operate it properly.

And keep in mind that Taiwan is not a nation, they even have the difficulty to operate a Kidd DDG, let alone a SSBN.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yes India with it's entire nuclear arsenal being about 1 megaton in total.

To achieve "assured destruction" you need to be able to make a country lose sovereignty.

Wow, we must be so scared of the "Bharti missiles".

YouTube - AGNI II test launch fails

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Actually its economists(not necessarily Indians) who have been predicting both ..where have been reading this stuff for years..since you joined this forum last year itself??

Indians seem to enjoy making such ridiculous predictions that never come true.

Look at the articles from the "Indian think tank" IDR. It predicted that China would collapse due to the Credit crunch of 2008.

The Fall of the Dragon - IDR

 

[ares]

Yes India with it's entire nuclear arsenal being about 1 megaton in total.

To achieve "assured destruction" you need to be able to make a country lose sovereignty.

Please can you quote the source for your claims..

Besides India has multiple 200 kilotone plutonium based thermonuclear devices.

I am not sure if you know.. but beyond 200 kilotone ..destructive efficiency of a Nuclear bomb wrt to amount of fissile material used drastically reduces.
ie Amount of Damage done by 5..two hundred kilotone warheads , is much more than 1 megatone consolidated warhead..this is one of the reason why MIRV came in to existance.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Please can you quote the source for your claims..

Besides India has multiple 200 kilotone plutonium based thermonuclear devices.

I am not sure if you know.. but beyond 200 kilotone ..destructive efficiency of a Nuclear bomb wrt to amount of fissile material used drastically reduces.
ie Amount of Damage done by 5..two hundred kilotone warheads , is much more than 1 megatone consolidated warhead..this is one of the reason why MIRV came in to existance.

Sure.

The estimation of nuclear destructive power:

1. Russia ~ 1,273 megaton
2. USA ~ 570 megaton
3. China ~ 294 megaton
4. France ~ 55 megaton
5. UK ~ 16 megaton
6. Israel ~ 1.5 - 4 megaton
7. India ~ 0.8 - 1 megaton
8. Pakistan ~ 0.6 - 1 megaton
9. North Korea ~ Unknown

Link: NTI: Nuclear Disarmament

(The links to country details are on the right side of the page).

 

[ares]

Wow, we must be so scared of the "Bharti missiles".

YouTube - AGNI II test launch fails

Are you saying none of Chinese missiles have failed?