China starts "combat ready" patrols in disputed seas

[eachus]

"They're in for a surprise: The Philippines isn't also with the UNCLOS -- when it comes to sovereignty disputes like that on Scarborough (known in the West for Huangyan Island)."


=====================

Int'l tribunal not solution to sea tensions - People's Daily Online

Int'l tribunal not solution to sea tensions

The Philippines has been seeking an international arbitration to resolve a month-long maritime standoff with Beijing over Huangyan Island in the South China Sea, but a closer look at the proposal easily puts Manila's real motives in question.

Analysts said the proposal lacks legal ground and is not a right solution at all.

Not a solution

Tensions have been running high since the April 10 episode when a Philippine warship entered waters off Huangyan Island and acted under the pretext of "protecting sovereignty" to harass Chinese fishermen, who were taking shelter from a storm in the lagoon.

In a show of what it called restraint, Manila has proposed to bring the disputes to the International Tribunal For the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) to decide the ownership of the island.

"We do not wish to escalate any tensions right now," Philipine President Benigno Aquino's spokesman said. "Therefore, what we're doing for now is to just to document the situation ... and consequently raise (it) before the tribunals."

However, analysts doubted whether the proposal, which is short of legal ground, could provide a way out of the current stalemate.

"President Benigno Aquino and his officials have been ... complaining to the world that China is refusing to have the dispute settled by the International Tribunal for the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)," Rigoberto Tiglao, former ambassador of the Philippines to Athens, said in an article carried on the website of the Philippine Daily Inquirer.

"They're in for a surprise: The Philippines isn't also with the UNCLOS -- when it comes to sovereignty disputes like that on Scarborough (known in the West for Huangyan Island)."

He pointed out that back in 1984 when ratifying the treaty, Manila has made it clear that the convention could not apply to its sovereignty disputes.

To put it simply, the Filipinos would deem the treaty null and void when it comes to territorial disputes, Tiglao said.

Aquino has made no mention of such a thing when he proposed to let the international tribunal handle the case.


more reading.....
Int'l tribunal not solution to sea tensions (2) - People's Daily Online

 

[Fil Pacifist]

Filipino medias

Psst

Psst… US isn’t with Unclos

So what's your point?

 

[WuMaoCleverbot]

Int'l tribunal not solution to sea tensions
Analysts said the proposal lacks legal ground and is not a right solution at all.

This is a misconception being propagated by China that countries do not want to submit territorial disputes to the International Court of Justice.

Within Southeast Asia alone, Thailand and Cambodia have done it, Malaysia and Indonesia have done it, Malaysia and Singapore have done it.

It looks like the small countries of Southeast Asia are ahead of China in terms of this.

The obstacle to resolving the South China Sea disputes at court is China. It is obvious why: China wants to use its strength to take what it cannot take in the courts.

China’s consistent refusal to bring its claim to the United Nation’s International Court of Justice (ICJ) or United Nation’s International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) by itself is a tacit admission that it cannot prove its so called historical claim before a proper neutral court.

Philippines claim is backed by international law, while China's claim is groundless.

 

[lordwedggie]

you should worry about your own china.... and give up your false HK and TW flags.

Neither HK and TW people associate themeselves with crappy PRC.

Really, you know this HOW? Do you have any idea how many Taiwanese live and work in China? Do you know how zealously patriotic some of the Hongkongese are? We do worry about OUR own China and we do argue which is the better way for it, but it's argument between brothers, with you guys, it's a different story.

Ps check today's news, 9 taiwanese guys on a fishing ship escorted by 5 Taiwanese coastal guard ships went to Diaoyu island where they planted the CHINESE flag.

i happen to know of a lot of chinese mail order brides in australia and other western countries...

so your really not one to talk about philippine mail order brides

That could be true, but in ten years time you won't be able to afford any, so take them while you still can.

I see us only getting in to the mix, if the Chinese does something incredibly dumb such as bombing mainland Philippines or sinking their entire Navy. If China sinks 1 to 3 ships, Obama will howl, protest and threaten but not much will happen.

I thought one ship (that WW2 US destroyer) IS their entire navy?

 

[amidamaru]

Really, you know this HOW? Do you have any idea how many Taiwanese live and work in China? Do you know how zealously patriotic some of the Hongkongese are? We do worry about OUR own China and we do argue which is the better way for it, but it's argument between brothers, with you guys, it's a different story.

Ps check today's news, 9 taiwanese guys on a fishing ship escorted by 5 Taiwanese coastal guard ships went to Diaoyu island where they planted the CHINESE flag.



That could be true, but in ten years time you won't be able to afford any, so take them while you still can.



I thought one ship (that WW2 US destroyer) IS their entire navy?

in 10 years time, i will still earn in one week what it takes you 4 months LOL

 

[faithfulguy]

This is a misconception being propagated by China that countries do not want to submit territorial disputes to the International Court of Justice.

Within Southeast Asia alone, Thailand and Cambodia have done it, Malaysia and Indonesia have done it, Malaysia and Singapore have done it.

It looks like the small countries of Southeast Asia are ahead of China in terms of this.

The obstacle to resolving the South China Sea disputes at court is China. It is obvious why: China wants to use its strength to take what it cannot take in the courts.

China’s consistent refusal to bring its claim to the United Nation’s International Court of Justice (ICJ) or United Nation’s International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) by itself is a tacit admission that it cannot prove its so called historical claim before a proper neutral court.

Philippines claim is backed by international law, while China's claim is groundless.

Each claiming country must work with one another to solve the issue instead of going to international court. In the US, the international court ruling are void if its contrary to American law or court rulings. Any self respecting country would not allow the international court to decide their fate.

 

[WuMaoCleverbot]

Each claiming country must work with one another to solve the issue instead of going to international court. .

China wont entertain "independent" arbitration, that the world would be a sorry and chaotic place if any country could unilaterally drag another country to court on a sovereignty claim,(still scared of going to international court, there is a DISPUTE. best way is to resolve it in court, before a neutral arbiter.)

Right now, China wants bilateral only; no third party; no international involvement. Taking care of each small country one by one.


-if the enemy is many, divide them -suntzu, art of war
China has territorial disputes with japan, south korea, taiwan, philippines, malaysia, vietnam, indonesia, brunei, etc... And tells every one of them that china wants to do bilateral talks only. Imagine if all of us gang up on china. Fun!

-if the enemy is strong, prevent him from fighting -Suntzu, art of war
The philippines has a strong case vs china. Bring it to court, they might lose, so instead of fighting us legally, they try to avoid that battle. Instead they harrass us and pressure us into giving in.


-The way is to avoid the strong and strike at what is weak.-suntzu
China wants our territory. If it is decided in court, china's enemy will not be the weak philippines but a strong united nations

-Prevent the enemy from gaining contentious ground -suntzu
Contentious ground are grounds where the few and the weak can defeat the great and many. Like the international court, where a weak country like the Philippines can defeat a China.

 

[lordwedggie]

in 10 years time, i will still earn in one week what it takes you 4 months LOL

You make $100,000 a week? That's how much I make in 4 months from bank interest off of my cash assets. If you ever visit Beijing, I'll show you my restaurants, though no discount for you, sire.

 

[WuMaoCleverbot]

'China's behavior in West Phl Sea pushing region in wrong direction'

By Pia Lee-Brago (The Philippine Star) Updated July 05, 2012 12:00 AM

MANILA, Philippines - China’s behavior in the West Philippine Sea is pushing the region in the wrong direction as Beijing’s overly broad scope and basis of its claims are fostering a climate of anxiety among countries in the region to fortify their own claims, according to a US lawmaker.

Connecticut Sen. Joseph Lieberman expressed concern over China’s behavior in the region, saying the way in which the conflicts there are responded to is a “test” of whether the geopolitics of a rising Asia are going to be defined by win-win cooperation or zero-sum competition.

“The way we handle these conflicts is going to be a test of whether the countries of the region can resolve these differences peacefully according to international law or through coercion and force,” Lieberman said.

Although the US is not a claimant in the disputes in the region, Lieberman said Washington has $1.2 trillion of trade flowing through the waters of the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) every year.

And because of the long-standing commitment of the US to uphold freedom of navigation and open access to maritime commerce, Lieberman said it has been one of the reasons why the Asia-Pacific region has experienced such explosive and progressive economic growth in the decades since World War II.

“And most important of all, I think, in the larger picture to the United States and the region and the world, the South China Sea really and the conflicts that are ongoing there now are going to provide a special and very important test for China itself, which is to say how will Beijing relate to its neighbors as it grows more powerful, and in a larger sense, what kind of great power will China be in this century,” Lieberman said during the second annual conference on Maritime Security in the South China Sea last Thursday in Washington hosted by the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).

When China pursues policies in the South China Sea that are heavy-handed or lack a clear basis in international law, Lieberman said, “it naturally creates distrust, increases the danger of miscalculation and leaves China... more isolated in the region and in the world.”

'China's behavior in West Phl Sea pushing region in wrong direction' - The Philippine Star » News » Headlines

 

[Viet]

In Taiwan, almost all Pinoys are either servants or day laborers. We can just make the assumption and we would be correct 99 out of 100 times.

In Taiwan, Vietnamese women are mail order brides. I have a relative that has a Vietnamese mail order bride.

why do chinese men so obsessed of viet girls?
why not philippines women as mail order brides? that will reduce pressure on VNs marriage market.

 

[Holmes]

Philippines protests China's establishment of a new city claiming entire South China Sea

By Jim Gomez, The Associated Press July 5, 2012 8:02 AM

MANILA, Philippines - The Philippine government has protested China's planned move to place virtually the entire South China Sea under the jurisdiction of a newly created city in the latest conflict between the Asian neighbours in the disputed region, officials said Thursday.

Philippine diplomats in Manila summoned Chinese Ambassador Ma Keqing on Wednesday and handed her a note protesting China's establishment of Sansha city, which would administer all disputed territories across the vast South China Sea under Beijing's southernmost Hainan province. Vietnam has also protested China's action.

Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said China's declaration violated Philippine sovereignty in South China Sea territories clearly belonging to Manila, including several islands, reefs and sandbars in the disputed Spratly Islands, the Scarborough Shoal and the continental shelf and waters off the country's western coast.

China's Cabinet approved the establishment of Sansha last month to administer three major island groups in the South China Sea and surrounding waters, with the government seat to be based in the Paracel Islands, which Chinese officials call Xisha.

Hernandez said Beijing's decision contradicted a 2002 nonaggression accord signed by China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations to prevent the territorial disputes from turning violent. There are fears that the disputes could spark Asia's next major armed conflict.

Chinese officials have said they plan to establish a military presence in Sansha, along with an aquaculture research centre.

The territorial disputes are expected to take centre stage at Asia's largest annual security meeting in Cambodia next week.

Although China has opposed efforts to bring the conflicts to an international arena, top Philippine and Vietnamese diplomats are expected to raise their opposition to China's recent actions in the South China Sea at the ASEAN Regional Forum, which is attended by foreign ministers from 27 nations, including the United States and China.

A key topic will be a proposal to turn the 2002 accord between China and ASEAN into a legally binding code to tame aggression by claimant countries and prevent violence from erupting in the South China Sea, Philippine officials said.

Philippines protests China's establishment of a new city claiming entire South China Sea

 

[WuMaoCleverbot]

P-Noy to China: Pull out ships from shoal

By Aurea Calica (The Philippine Star) Updated July 06, 2012 12:00 AM

MANILA, Philippines - President Aquino yesterday called on China to pull out all its ships from Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal as he assailed Beijing for asking the Philippines to stop making provocative statements while itself continuing to talk.

“It’s not clear to me what provocative statements the Philippines or Filipino officials have made. But we know that the other side has been saying a lot. So maybe they should read first what have been written on their end and with all due respect, maybe they can balance that with reality,” Aquino said yesterday.

Malacañang also said that the redeployment of ships to Panatag Shoal, also known as Bajo de Masinloc, would depend on the weather.

China stands on a historical claim while the Philippines has taken the view that Beijing’s claim is not supported by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) - With Pia Lee-Brago, Jaime Laude, AP

P-Noy to China: Pull out ships from shoal - The Philippine Star » News » Headlines



Military spending spree in the Philippines

By Al Labita
Southeast Asia
ul 6, 2012

MANILA - China's rising assertiveness to claims over the contested Spratly Islands has spurred the Philippines to ramp up a long-overdue upgrade of its external defense capability. Manila's move signals an impending arms race in the increasingly volatile region.

Next month, Philippine President Benigno Aquino's government will begin bidding for some 70 billion pesos (US$1.8 billion) worth of military contracts, the initial outlay of a 500 billion peso budget for a five-year modernization of the 125,000-strong Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP).

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/NG06Ae01.html


China grabs PH atoll

Written by : Jaime R. Pilapil, Llanesca T. Panti and Bernice Camille V. Bauzon, Reporters
Thursday, July 05, 2012 00:00


WHILE the government and the public were focused on the territorial dispute at the Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal, China moved to claim territorial rights over a huge group of reefs and shoals in the middle of the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) that is touted as the largest atoll in the world—Macclesfield Bank.

The Philippines lays claim to Macclesfield Bank (Zhongsha islands) and administers the atoll through the provincial government of Zambales.

http://manilatimes.net/index.php/news/top-stories/26175-china-grabs-ph-atoll

 

[Fanling Monk]

China: being nice is not going to work because they're blinded to your kindness and take it as weakness. It's better to have a small skirmish now than a war later on if you wait, or at least, it's more cost effective.

 

[WuMaoCleverbot]

China: being nice is not going to work because they're blinded to your kindness and take it as weakness. It's better to have a small skirmish now than a war later on if you wait, or at least, it's more cost effective.

What China means in being nice:

1. Almost regular warnings and threats to other states

2. sends a fleet for illegal fishing, get caught, then intimidate others militarily , then portray herself as the victim.

3. illegally occupy her neighbors' territory and shamelessly proclaim ownership...then accuse her neighbors of intrusion

4. use economic bullying to try to bend her neighbor's will

5. capture, beat up, stole fish catches, and demand ransom money from poor and unarmed fishermen

6. cut other nations survey cables

7. shoot at unarmed fishing boats

8. invokes UNCLOS against US but tramples it when claiming territories and EEZ belonging to Vietnam and Philippines.

9. escalates the dispute then accuse the other party of escalating the dispute

10. disguises navy vessels as regular fishing vessels then use it for harassment

11. Add more here

 

[faithfulguy]

why do chinese men so obsessed of viet girls?
why not philippines women as mail order brides? that will reduce pressure on VNs marriage market.

Maybe the Vietnamese men can marry the Philippine girls once they return home from their contract as maids.