China Shows Democracy Is Not Key for Growth, EU Commissioner Says

[UKBengali]

Democracy is a better bet. For every China, Singapore, or Taiwan where autocratic rule was a success, there are 100 examples in the rest of the world where autocratic rulers abused their powers and the population suffered.

If you playing the odds, democracy is the best bet, but there are examples where countries progressed without it.

Nope, all the instances where a 3rd world country progressed to 1st world status since WW2 has been under dictatorship - Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong.

China is almost 1st world in 2022 and that is under a non-democratic system.

Democracy is only useful after a country has reached a certain level of development. When a country is poor and the population uneducated democracy becomes a hindrance to economic development.

 

[WotTen]

Nope, all the instances where a 3rd world country progressed to 1st world status since WW2 has been under dictatorship - Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong.

China is almost 1st world in 2022 and that is under a non-democratic system.

Democracy is only useful after a country has reached a certain level of development. When a country is poor and the population uneducated democracy becomes a hindrance to economic development.

I would agree with you but India, Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc. show that democracy can work in a developing country and help it make good economic progress.

Having said that, I believe that direct, Athenian-style democracy only works at a local level. It simply does not scale beyond a few thousand voters. At larger scales, the real power shifts to the media. Even in the developed world, the ultimate choice usually comes down to two candidates, both of whom have to pass through the media gauntlet. If the national media, always controlled by a small elite in every country, does not approve of a candidate, they will be demonized and sifted out early in the game.

We saw how Ross Perot and Ron Paul were destroyed by the US media which is in bed with the two major parties. They tried to destroy Trump but he was too media savvy and even then had to run as a Republican. In that sense, real democracy doesn't exist at a national level even in the developed world.

P.S. After I wrote that I realized that social media may change the game and give power back to the people at a national level. Unfortunately, governments can block social media. We saw in Pakistan just this week how the current government harassed YouTubers, cut off electric power and internet access, and physically blocked people in order sabotage Imran Khan's rallies.

 

[UKBengali]

I would agree with you but India, Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc. show that democracy can work in a developing country and help it make good economic progress.

Having said that, I believe that direct, Athenian-style democracy only works at a local level. It simply does not scale beyond a few thousand voters. At larger scales, the real power shifts to the media. Even in the developed world, the ultimate choice usually comes down to two candidates, both of whom have to pass through the media gauntlet. If the national media, always controlled by a small elite in every country, does not approve of a candidate, they will be demonized and sifted out early in the game.

We saw how Ross Perot and Ron Paul were destroyed by the US media which is in bed with the two major parties. They tried to destroy Trump but he was too media savvy and even then had to run as a Republican. In that sense, real democracy doesn't exist at a national level even in the developed world.

P.S. After I wrote that I realized that social media may change the game and give power back to the people at a national level. Unfortunately, governments can block social media. We saw in Pakistan just this week how the current government harassed YouTubers, cut off electric power and internet access, and physically blocked people in order sabotage Imran Khan's rallies.

Where did you get that Vietnam has democracy? It is a communist one-party state.

BD pretty much suspended democracy in 2009 and is now an authoritarian country under one-party rule.

India, while a democracy, is not exactly a shining beacon of economic development and BD is growing faster than it for sure.

 

[beijingwalker]

Where did you get that Vietnam has democracy? It is a communist one-party state.

BD pretty much suspended democracy in 2009 and is now an authoritarian country under one-party rule.

India, while a democracy, is not exactly a shining beacon of economic development and BD is growing faster than it for sure.

When the vast majority of the population believe that cow pee can cure all sicknesses, they will choose a like-minded politician who also believes so to represent them, this is democracy.

 

[WotTen]

Where did you get that Vietnam has democracy? It is a communist one-party state.

OK, I was talking to some Vietnamese people about how Westernized Vietnam was becoming and I guess I got the wrong impression.

 

[beijingwalker]

China runs a country like a company focusing on productivity and efficiency, democracy runs a country like a club focusing on having fun.

 

[gambit]

What China has shown is that it is GOOD GOVERNANCE and NOT IDEOLOGY that drives development and economic success.

But China's ideological foundation is socialism (with Chinese characteristics).

In that regard we in the west have a serious challenge in changing our attitude. Democracy is fantastic but democracy without effective institutions are problematic.

What make an 'effective' institution?

 

[UKBengali]

When the vast majority of the population believe that cow pee can cure all sicknesses, they will choose a like-minded politician who also believes so to represent them, this is democracy.

6-7% GDP growth for a country like India is amazing under the circumstances.

 

[Wergeland]

But China's ideological foundation is socialism (with Chinese characteristics).


What make an 'effective' institution?

By ideology i mean the belief that a certain set of governing ideas is somehow superior and always will be superior.

China dosent really have a ideology since Deng Ciaoping. Socialism is only a masquerade. China simply is a meritocratic and technocratic governance system. IMO China is ruled more like a private enterprise than a ideological state like the Soviet or even USA.

How to make institutions more effective? The system has to be changed so that people with scientific competence, and not politicians make the descisions. I have experiences many government etats that are filled with leaders who are clever as*kissers and good at climbing ladders. Very few of them actually had any knowledge of the field they are set to lead.
It makes competent people run away from government institutions.

Politicians ususally are machavelien and like to feel power. Engineers OTOH are doers and problem solvers.

Another aspect is the fetish for letting every tom dick and harry to be able to derail projects. Planning usually takes several years and implementation several years too. If lucky the government policies may stay the same so that all those investments are not wasted by a new goverment with a completeley different leanings.

 

[kankan326]

6-7% GDP growth for a country like India is amazing under the circumstances.

India's GDP is a myth for me. When China's GDP reached 0.3 trillion US dollars in 2007 same as today's India GDP, made-in-China were already everywhere. Chinese people already enjoyed good living standard. One year later China held the Olympic Games in Beijing.

Whereas today we barely see any India product outside India. Millions of Indian children are suffering malnutrition. Most of its population are still in extreme poverty. It's very werid considering the two countries have same scale population.

 

[Wergeland]

India's GDP is a myth for me. When China's GDP reached 0.3 trillion US dollars in 2007 same as today's India GDP, made-in-China were already everywhere. Chinese people already enjoyed good living standard. One year later China held the Olympic Games in Beijing.

Whereas today we barely see any India product outside India. Millions of Indian children are suffering malnutrition. Most of its population are still in extreme poverty. It's very werid considering the two countries have same scale population.

India economy is dominated by services and internal consumption. Without remittance from Gulf and the west it would be in big big trouble.

 

[kankan326]

By ideology i mean the belief that a certain set of governing ideas is somehow superior and always will be superior.

China dosent really have a ideology since Deng Ciaoping. Socialism is only a masquerade. China simply is a meritocratic and technocratic governance system. IMO China is ruled more like a private enterprise than a ideological state like the Soviet or even USA.

How to make institutions more effective? The system has to be changed so that people with scientific competence, and not politicians make the descisions. I have experiences many government etats that are filled with leaders who are clever as*kissers and good at climbing ladders. Very few of them actually had any knowledge of the field they are set to lead.
It makes competent people run away from government institutions.

Politicians ususally are machavelien and like to feel power. Engineers OTOH are doers and problem solvers.

Another aspect is the fetish for letting every tom dick and harry to be able to derail projects. Planning usually takes several years and implementation several years too. If lucky the government policies may stay the same so that all those investments are not wasted by a new goverment with a completeley different leanings.

I give two examples to explain why China's political system is superior to west. 1) Chinese officials get promoted by their performance, instead by voters. There is an organization as one of China's government departments called 中组部 that is to record and evaluate every official's performance and decide which one should be promoted. 2) All officials, including Xi Jinping, should regularly attend some classes where the newest knowledges is taught. This is the reason why China is faster than other countries in applying new technologies and ideas in country wide

 

[Wergeland]

I give two examples to explain why China's political system is superior to west. 1) Chinese officials get promoted by their performance, instead of by voters. There is an organization as one of China's government departments called 中组部 that is to record and evaluate every official's performance and decide which one should be promoted. 2) All officials, including Xi Jinping, should regularly attend some classes where the newest knowledges is taught. This is the reason why China is faster than other countries in applying new technologies and ideas in country wide

Interesting. You know, i never knew China had this systems in place but i always suspected that this must be how you guys promote and choose the right peoples for important positions.

 

[kankan326]

Interesting. You know, i never knew China had this systems in place but i always suspected that this must be how you guys promote and choose the right peoples for important positions.

Xi Jinping would never become China's leader if China were democratic country. He is overall a silent, low profile guy. Not an election material. But obviously he did well in his position.

 

[Beast]

You are a very funny guy. Indian lackey to white anglo? The only lackey are you chinese. You give your second generation immigrants in USA/Canada white names lol. India is fighting against western imperialism. China is supporting it. China is a puppet country of the US.

Enjoy your ban and sleep in your USA and India dream

In economics theorem, growth of a nation has not related to government system. It has nothing to do with races. It has nothing to do with religions, ether.

Yes, economy growth is made out of thin air.