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China should 'reconsider' who owns Okinawa: state media

The Internet is an American invention. That alone make it wrong for anyone to demand that the US cede control of it, especially over to a panel of overseers that contains dictatorships.

that is a completed loaded statement, you are completely ignoring all other(significant) contributions made by every other country since its invention.

and so what if its originally an american invention? which law says only the US can control the internet? which law says the US owns the internet? when did the US patented the entire internet? will you stop using gunpower because it was originally a chinese invention?

it is an international system and as such, it is perfectly normal to want an international oversight. and what exactly is wrong with having "dictatorships" on the panel? who on earth gave you the power to deny "dictatorships" a seat on any internet development oversight panel? nearly all international organization have authoritarian governments in it, its called "international" for a reason.
 
dont spew lies and dont project your own thoughts on to the chinese.

chinese territorial claims have never expanded, it only contracted, through negotiations, since the founding of the peoples republic.

china wants the international control for the internet because it thinks the US has vast control over the internet(and the US does have vast control of the internet) and what exactly is wrong with a international oversight of the way the internet develops? it does not advocate everyone go for censorship nor does it want anyone else to adopt Chinese views on the internet.

making ridiculous claims like "one of these days, China will say that if you have Asiatic features, you must pay China royalty payments." does not help your case in any way and only demonstrates that you are no more than a troll

A Chinese patriot living in the US. Hopefully the CIA is keeping tabs on people like you and will throw you in an internment camp when war finally breaks out between the US and China.
 
that is a completed loaded statement, you are completely ignoring all other(significant) contributions made by every other country since its invention.
Such as?

and so what if its originally an american invention? which law says only the US can control the internet? which law says the US owns the internet? when did the US patented the entire internet? will you stop using gunpower because it was originally a chinese invention?
Here is where you are wrong. Gunpowder can be made by anyone. If Chinese did not invented gunpowder, someone else would have. What this mean is that China can make up her own version of the Internet and convince other countries to use it.

it is an international system and as such, it is perfectly normal to want an international oversight. and what exactly is wrong with having "dictatorships" on the panel? who on earth gave you the power to deny "dictatorships" a seat on any internet development oversight panel? nearly all international organization have authoritarian governments in it, its called "international" for a reason.
Just because we allow others to use it, that does not mean others have executive rights to the Internet. Can we say that the US have executive rights to the Great Wall?
 
Who wants to be a part of China?

art-Comment-620x349.jpg

Illustration: John Shakespeare

Until now, China's territorial claims on Japan have been limited to small uninhabited rocks. And that was enough to create tension between the world's second-biggest economy and the third-biggest.But a new chorus of influential Chinese is raising the stakes. They argue that Japan is not entitled to one of its biggest islands, Okinawa, home to 1.4 million people and host to some of the biggest US military bases in the world.

Okinawa was an independent kingdom for centuries. Japan took it over in 1872, though its rule was interrupted when the US took it in World War II before returning it to Japan in 1972. China did not contest Japan's sovereignty over the island until 1970, and the issue has largely laid dormant since.But suddenly it's a burning issue. While Beijing is not officially staking a claim, the new Chinese argument is being advanced or tolerated by official and quasi-official parts of the Chinese system.

An outspoken two-star general in the People's Liberation Army said last week that the island could not belong to Japan because its ancient rulers had paid tribute to China 500 years before it had been taken over by the Japanese.

Obviously, this has alarming implications. The list of countries that paid tribute to China in ancient times is a long one. It includes Burma and Cambodia, Korea and Malaysia, even Italy and England. ''If this can of worms is opened, it could open a fractious time for the whole world,'' says the director of the Australian centre on China and the world at the ANU, Geremie Barme. ''Other countries can say, 'Well if that's open for renegotiation, then so are all these other territorial matters. Where does it stop? It doesn't.''

Major-General Luo Yuan told the China News Service the Ryukyu island chain, of which Okinawa is the biggest part, started paying tribute to China in 1372 during the Ming Dynasty. He said the islands' natives had closer ethnic and cultural ties to China than to Japan, as their rulers were vassals of the Chinese court. He said: ''Let's for now not discuss whether [the islands] belong to China, they were certainly China's tributary state. I am not saying all former tributary states belong to China, but we can say with certainty that the Ryukyus do not belong to Japan.''

But Luo is well known for his provocative hypernationalism, so does this really mean anything? The general's remarks were not in isolation. They followed a lengthy piece by two Chinese academics published a week earlier. ''It may be time to revisit the unresolved historical issue of the Ryukyu Islands,'' wrote Zhang Haipeng and Li Guoqiang.

The piece carried weight because the authors are from China's top state-run think tank, the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. And it was published by the official mouthpiece of the Communist Party, the Peoples Daily. Further, when reporters raised it with the spokesman for China's foreign ministry, Hua Chunying, she answered the history of Okinawa and the Ryukyu chain had ''long called for attention in academia''.

Japan protested in strong terms at the publication. At one point, the home islands of Japan, too, paid tribute to the emperor of China. ''By General Luo's 'logic','' writes Chris Nelson, editor of the Washington-based Nelson Report, a daily newsletter on Asian policy affairs, ''his next essay will claim the Japanese home islands for China.

''Presumably even the … humorists at the PLA staff college might find that a bit of an overreach. But just in case, we'd note that Chinese ship anchors, an estimated 1000 to 1500 years old, have been recovered off Mexico's Pacific coast, so why stop at Japan?''

Australia in the centuries before European discovery did not pay tribute to Imperial China, but when China's then president, Hu Jintao, addressed the Australian Parliament in 2003, he pointed out: ''Back in the 1420s, the expeditionary fleets of China's Ming Dynasty reached Australian shores. For centuries, the Chinese sailed across vast seas and settled down in what they called Southern Land, or today's Australia.'' They brought Chinese culture to this land and lived harmoniously with the local people, contributing their proud share to Australia's economy, society and its thriving pluralistic culture.''This is not fiction. It's supported by archaeological evidence of visits by Chinese sailors half a millennium before Captain Cook.

If Chinese nationalists can invent arguments about territorial sovereignty on the grounds of cultural and official contacts half a millennium ago, before most of today's nation states existed, then, as Barme says, where does it stop? China's senior leadership has not publicly endorsed this cheeky argument. But neither has it disowned it. The question is, why is it being advanced and tolerated by the leadership, perhaps even tacitly endorsed, and why now?

''From the Chinese viewpoint the Okinawan islands resemble nothing so much as a giant maritime Great Wall,'' writes ANU's expert on the island, Gavan McCormack, ''potentially blocking naval access to the Pacific Ocean.'' So it's important strategically in its own right. But an expert on Chinese elite politics, Willy Lam, of Hong Kong's Chinese University, says it's ''psychological warfare'' to pressure Japan into concessions on China's lesser territorial claims over the uninhabited Senkaku, as the Japanese call them, or Diaoyus in Chinese.

And why now? China's rising power has coupled with a stirring assertiveness to enliven its claims in several long-dormant disputes.Says Barme: ''The new president, Xi Jinping, has very firm views and they are not what we in the West want them to be. ''He and his cohort think that China has been coasting and has not put itself forward strongly enough. In Chinese terms it's not outrageous and Xi believes China is a major world power and must exert itself as a major power should. I think everyone is in for a bit of a tough time.''



Article by Peter Hartcher, Sydney Morning Herald's International Editor

Who wants to be a part of China?

A straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position

The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:

  1. Person 1 has position X.
  2. Person 2 disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially similar position Y. The position Y is a distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:
    1. Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position.
    2. Quoting an opponent's words out of context—i.e., choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see fallacy of quoting out of context).
    3. Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments—thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.
    4. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
    5. Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
  3. Person 2 attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This reasoning is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position does not address the actual position. The ostensible argument that Person 2 makes has the form:

"Don't support X, because X has an unacceptable (or absurd or contradictory or terrible) consequence."

However, the actual form of the argument is:

"Don't support X, because Y has an unacceptable (or absurd or contradictory or terrible) consequence."

This argument doesn't make sense; it is a non sequitur. Person 2 relies on the audience and the opponent themself not noticing this.

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





“A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.”

― Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy
 
and so what if its originally an american invention? which law says only the US can control the internet? which law says the US owns the internet? when did the US patented the entire internet? will you stop using gunpower because it was originally a chinese invention?

Actually, depend on how you define the term "Internet" US company did hold patent to some of the Internet technology. The following is just a brief list of what US company hold currently

Network system with TCP/IP protocol spoofing (patent #6701370)

TCP/IP offload network interface device (patent # 7853723)

WiFi peripheral mode display system (Patent #8019883)

Method and apparatus for WiFi long range radio coordination (Patent #8218564)

WAP XML extension for WiFi and desktop passthrough connections (Patent #7451198)

Search them on http://www.patentgenius.com/

Technically those protocol and application are owned by American and they have the sole right to said technology, they can allow and terminate the usage right of said application.

You can still access the internet tho using IPv4 and IPv6 but you cannot use Wifi for desktop component, or Transfer data (Read and Write) over TCP/IP network.

Also making of gunpowder is a chemical reaction (Chinese Alchemist invented the making of gunpowder or the recipe for gunpowder, not the gun powder itself) , you cannot own patent with chemical reaction, that is the same as you try to licence Burning Hydrogen and Oxygen and get Water.........H2 + O2 -> H2O, try license this in any patent office and you will get shot down........

It is also the same with the formula of making coca cola, you can lock the recipe in a safe and don't let anyone get to it, but you cannot license it.

Such as?


Here is where you are wrong. Gunpowder can be made by anyone. If Chinese did not invented gunpowder, someone else would have. What this mean is that China can make up her own version of the Internet and convince other countries to use it.


Just because we allow others to use it, that does not mean others have executive rights to the Internet. Can we say that the US have executive rights to the Great Wall?

Internet as a whole is not own by anybody, you can own part or pieces of the protocol to perform stuff for the internet for you. I can actually see how big would be the trouble is if US patent on Internet Application decide they don't let the Chinese access their technology no more. This will draw them back into 1990.

But then if the Chinese patent done the same, I don't think we would be hit that bad.........
 
Cool and objective opinion, thanks.

Actually, depend on how you define the term "Internet" US company did hold patent to some of the Internet technology. The following is just a brief list of what US company hold currently

Network system with TCP/IP protocol spoofing (patent #6701370)

TCP/IP offload network interface device (patent # 7853723)

WiFi peripheral mode display system (Patent #8019883)

Method and apparatus for WiFi long range radio coordination (Patent #8218564)

WAP XML extension for WiFi and desktop passthrough connections (Patent #7451198)

Search them on Patent Genius - Patent Search

Technically those protocol and application are owned by American and they have the sole right to said technology, they can allow and terminate the usage right of said application.

You can still access the internet tho using IPv4 and IPv6 but you cannot use Wifi for desktop component, or Transfer data (Read and Write) over TCP/IP network.

Also making of gunpowder is a chemical reaction (Chinese Alchemist invented the making of gunpowder or the recipe for gunpowder, not the gun powder itself) , you cannot own patent with chemical reaction, that is the same as you try to licence Burning Hydrogen and Oxygen and get Water.........H2 + O2 -> H2O, try license this in any patent office and you will get shot down........

It is also the same with the formula of making coca cola, you can lock the recipe in a safe and don't let anyone get to it, but you cannot license it.



Internet as a whole is not own by anybody, you can own part or pieces of the protocol to perform stuff for the internet for you. I can actually see how big would be the trouble is if US patent on Internet Application decide they don't let the Chinese access their technology no more. This will draw them back into 1990.

But then if the Chinese patent done the same, I don't think we would be hit that bad.........
 
Internet as a whole is not own by anybody, you can own part or pieces of the protocol to perform stuff for the internet for you. I can actually see how big would be the trouble is if US patent on Internet Application decide they don't let the Chinese access their technology no more. This will draw them back into 1990.

But then if the Chinese patent done the same, I don't think we would be hit that bad.........
These guys are confused between the Internet and the World Wide Web.

Clue for the Chinese members here: The Internet and the World Wide Web are related but NOT THE SAME.

The Internet is the physical structure composed of servers and cables and such. The World Wide Web (WWW) is the data transfer protocol invented by Tim Berners-Lee. The Internet predate the WWW. The Internet can exist without the WWW but not vice versa. If Berners-Lee did not invent his method of data transfer, someone else would have invented his/her own version and may be even call it 'World Wide Web'. The original Internet physical structure was created by DARPA and the components were located in the US. No foreign countries had any hand in it, least of all China. So even if the Internet evolved to where foreign data centers were created to enhance its capabilities, by virtue of it being originally in the US, no one can claim any executive rights to its administration, least of all dictatorships like China.
 
dont spew lies and dont project your own thoughts on to the chinese.

chinese territorial claims have never expanded, it only contracted, through negotiations, since the founding of the peoples republic.
It only contracted on your view because PRC claims too much. So many "losses" that you think of are only on paper. For example, PRC claimed 100 but only got 10. Thus, China only lost a piece of paper, while other countries lost 10 of their territories. Amazing trick!! Since the founding of PRC, China has gained Tibet in the West, India's land in the South West, Vietnam's islands and land in the South, Russia's islands in the North East, Tajikistan's land in the South West, Macau, and Hong Kong. I don't see any "contraction." Your friend is right about Mao. He can be credited for many of that, even though he killed millions during the Cultural Revolution.

Other than that, concessions were made through your dealings with super powers at the time. If PRC wants more land, it should ask Russia. If PRC wants more islands, it should go fight Japan for them. Leave India, Vietnam and other ASEAN countries, which have also been oppressed by colonials in the past and never taken anything away from China, alone.
 
These guys are confused between the Internet and the World Wide Web.

Clue for the Chinese members here: The Internet and the World Wide Web are related but NOT THE SAME.

The Internet is the physical structure composed of servers and cables and such. The World Wide Web (WWW) is the data transfer protocol invented by Tim Berners-Lee. The Internet predate the WWW. The Internet can exist without the WWW but not vice versa. If Berners-Lee did not invent his method of data transfer, someone else would have invented his/her own version and may be even call it 'World Wide Web'. The original Internet physical structure was created by DARPA and the components were located in the US. No foreign countries had any hand in it, least of all China. So even if the Internet evolved to where foreign data centers were created to enhance its capabilities, by virtue of it being originally in the US, no one can claim any executive rights to its administration, least of all dictatorships like China.

actually to be precise, internet actually refer to the connectivity between multiple computer. Such connectivity's what made of today Internet structure. You can of course argue no one actually own the internet. but it will be naïve to say no one owning the software and hardware side of the internet. Hence even China want to control the internet, it's IMPOSSIBLE for them to actually do it.

However, you can control bits and parts of the internet so that it will make your internet experience living hell. US currently hold about 60-75% of all internet technologies and almost patented all the big stuff (TCP/IP, Network Sharing protocol, Wifi)

Try thinking like this, what if tomorrow, Lenovo say they are not going to sell their computer to any Western market. What is that impact on the western world? Then ask yourselves this, what if Intel and AMD said they are not going to sell their CPU and any electronic component to China, what will be the impact then??

If the west really did cut off from the East (or the east cut off ties from the west) We only need to rebuild part of our internet infrastructure. But in China, they will need to rebuild everything from CPU manufacturing to derived a new coding system that allow transfer of internet information packet....
 
Try thinking like this, what if tomorrow, Lenovo say they are not going to sell their computer to any Western market. What is that impact on the western world? Then ask yourselves this, what if Intel and AMD said they are not going to sell their CPU and any electronic component to China, what will be the impact then??

If the west really did cut off from the East (or the east cut off ties from the west) We only need to rebuild part of our internet infrastructure. But in China, they will need to rebuild everything from CPU manufacturing to derived a new coding system that allow transfer of internet information packet....


oh, so naive comments, last trick: separation, see who can survive?

first, in order to withdraw from China, AMD and INTEL have to move all of their manufactures, inculding design, R&D departments out of China. however, it seems a mission impossible since most of the emploeers are Chinese, you can not take back all their skills and knowledges. and also very difficult to move all the facilities out of China. i dont think AMD and INTEL are so patriotic that they moved their business to China long ago. leave China, good luck!

Second, you have to bomb all the Chinese indigenous CPU company and R&D centers since you talked about "everything". after all, developing new generation CPU and internet Protocol is one of the Chiense strategies formed decades ago (863 plan). new internet tech, such as ivp6, or legendary ivp9,have already tested in China for long time, just try to disconnect China from internet see what will happen, in fact, great wall has been there for years but not built by US. it is said that China has "stolen and copied" all the necessary knowledge for it.

third, don't know the differenc between commercial operation and technique reserve? Lenove bought IBM, a dying company, why? that is not saying Lenove can not produce laptop but saying " take the money, go home, leave the market for me." you did not know or just choose to neglect that China has already begun to invest in ADM and INTEL? China can establish a new set of CPU and internet, but why not just replace it and defeat it inside?

take a look since you know nothing about IT facts:
ShenWei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercomputing_in_China

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson

http://english.ict.cas.cn/rh/
 
oh, so naive comments, last trick: separation, see who can survive?

first, in order to withdraw from China, AMD and INTEL have to move all of their manufactures, inculding design, R&D departments out of China. however, it seems a mission impossible since most of the emploeers are Chinese, you can not take back all their skills and knowledges. and also very difficult to move all the facilities out of China. i dont think AMD and INTEL are so patriotic that they moved their business to China long ago. leave China, good luck!

Second, you have to bomb all the Chinese indigenous CPU company and R&D centers since you talked about "everything". after all, developing new generation CPU and internet Protocol is one of the Chiense strategies formed decades ago (863 plan). new internet tech, such as ivp6, or legendary ivp9,have already tested in China for long time, just try to disconnect China from internet see what will happen, in fact, great wall has been there for years but not built by US. it is said that China has "stolen and copied" all the necessary knowledge for it.

third, don't know the differenc between commercial operation and technique reserve? Lenove bought IBM, a dying company, why? that is not saying Lenove can not produce laptop but saying " take the money, go home, leave the market for me." you did not know or just choose to neglect that China has already begun to invest in ADM and INTEL? China can establish a new set of CPU and internet, but why not just replace it and defeat it inside?

take a look since you know nothing about IT facts:
ShenWei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Supercomputing in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Loongson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Research

1.) Intel and AMD

It's foolish to think Intel and AMD invest HEAVILY alone in China (Really stupid thinking)

Intel have a division in each of a different continent. There are more than 1 Research Site in Asia (There are one in Japan and one in Taiwan) and Intel CPU does not make in China.

2.) Indigenous CPU technology undoubtedly are started way before today in China, but did you had for one moment why commercial computer in China still popular with Intel and AMD processor?

Ipv6 and IPv9 is unlicensed and open beta, having the ability to adopt it actually does happened around the world. However, Do you know why our internet still using TCP/IP as file transfer? Even they have been around for 30 years??

Ask yourselves one last question. Why Chinese Internet Protocol Structure HAVE TO MODELLED AFTER THE WEST??

If you want to break out and use Chinese own internet structure, feel free to do so, just one reminder, even as I type today. China are still using UTP and TCP/IP Based internet structure, it will be longer and harder to switch if indeed Chinese wanted to get their own. Hurry up, ask your R&D Tech department to change them lol..........

3.) Lenovo bought IBM simply because Lenovo would not sell on their own, using the IBM existing marketing network and brand name, they are to break in the Western Computer market. If Lenovo doing it alone without acquiring IBM, they would not even have one share of the market.

This is what the Lenovo Founder said
Liu Chuanzhi said, "We benefited in three ways from the IBM acquisition. We got the ThinkPad brand, IBM's more advanced PC manufacturing technology and the company's international resources, such as its global sales channels and operation teams. These three elements have shored up our sales revenue in the past several years

Lenovo, on top of the PC world (3) - People's Daily Online

China can of course establish a new set of CPU and Internet, but how long and at what price?? Even if China establish a new set of Internet, will the west abandon everything they have and align themselves to this net? If they won't, then the Chinese's New Internet is actually just China net. You cannot communicate with other part of the world lol

As for China using Chinese Indigenous Processor, really, go on, ask L

fan boy don't know anything about computer Loongson cover the whole China market. By then Chinese will pay for a loongson Godson-3 1.05 GHz @ 8 core. Even AMD did not sink that low. Even the crapiest of Crap AMD 4 core bulldozer processor still 3.6GHz @ 4 core speed. 2 times faster than the mid range Godson-3, don't even try to compare with intel processor.

I REALLY would want to see Chinese trend on using computer hardware going BACKWARD :lol:
 
1.) Intel and AMD

It's foolish to think Intel and AMD invest HEAVILY alone in China (Really stupid thinking)

with intel processor.

I REALLY would want to see Chinese trend on using computer hardware going BACKWARD :lol:


ex soldier or now IT man today, seem you know much about IT, ok, if it is true, why not US use it as a weapon against China, i have not seen CPU price soars instead you saying here about stopping supply CPU or other rubbish.

as i see, China now is climbing production chain one by one, it is wishful US can stay on the top for ever.

pray for your Tom wish he can invent some new toy soon, otherwise, game is ove when China produce its own brand CPU.
 
ex soldier or now IT man today, seem you know much about IT, ok, if it is true, why not US use it as a weapon against China, i have not seen CPU price soars instead you saying here about stopping supply CPU or other rubbish.

as i see, China now is climbing production chain one by one, it is wishful US can stay on the top for ever.

pray for your Tom wish he can invent some new toy soon, otherwise, game is ove when China produce its own brand CPU.

hmm. that's a good question, why US don't use IT as a weapon.

Actually this is being CURRENTLY discuss on another thread, feel free to join the rank

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chines...-us-weapons-designs-report-7.html#post4352185

By the way, you don't know something does not mean that things is not currently in progress, if I am to wage a cyber war, I would keep my work unannounced.

And yet, you brush off all my question and reply to your question and ask yet another question totally unrelated

and again, i don't really know why Chinese member always say China WILL something, something, blah, blah, blah. Talk to me when China is AT TOP OF THE IT FIELD looking at current technological work and actual share, China is not even getting the half way mark of what US achieve. Enough said :)
 
funny,itis really hard to discuss with you.

what about cyber war about it?

you started CPU supplers stop business ralationship with China and hope making a impact to China IT Industry, is this a cyber war?

Even EU are more brave to take Anti-Subsidy on China Photovoltaic , but i did not see any move from US on IT tech. on the contrary, US CPU company extended its business in China, and CPU price reduced very much in the past years here, and many most advanced CPU manufactories were built on in China. it is only you wishful dream about disconnection or separation for the time being.

i say something about Chinese IT tech is that China is ready for such separation or containment or isolation, whatever, but it not necessarily happen in reality, or maybe in the future when US truely feels the threaten, but will it too late for US?

ex soldier, you really have some logical illness, can you read or seems too hard for you to know IT tech and its tricks?
 
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