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China risks following Japan into economic coma.

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China risks following Japan into economic coma.
By Wayne Arnold
HONG KONG | Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:36am

(Reuters) - After decades of emulating Japan's export-driven economic miracle, China appears in danger of following it into the same kind of economic coma that Japan is trying to wake up from 20 years later.

China is struggling to wean itself off a habit picked up from its more advanced neighbour: relying for growth on exports and credit-fuelled investment. That has left its economy lopsided, economists say, with massive over investment in property and industries rapidly losing their cost advantage, from mining and electronics to cars and textiles. Wages are rising, the return on investments falling.

With growth slipping, China's President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Keqiang seem determined to avoid a U.S.-style financial crisis, complete with widespread bankruptcies and job losses.

Preventing such a crisis though could embalm diseased sectors, stifling efforts to make growth more sustainable and instead create the kind of "zombie" banks and companies that sucked the life out of Japan's economy, economists say.

Add a population greying faster than Japan's did, and economists worry China may be attempting the impossible.

"There is a huge amount of denial. People think that demographics don't matter," said Chetan Ahya, chief Asia economist at Morgan Stanley in Hong Kong. "I'm worried about the deflationary risk."

Deflation may seem unlikely in an economy still growing at a 7.5 percent clip and where consumer prices are rising 2.7 percent a year. But economists warn that China in many ways resembles Japan in 1989, two years before its crash.

Like Japan, China relied on banks to funnel investment into export industries to create jobs and finance development. In return, interest rates were regulated to ensure banks a healthy profit. Because the most profitable loans were those to the least-risky borrowers, banks concentrated their lending on big state-owned companies.

As Japan did in the 1980s, China tried to remedy this by partially liberalising the financial sector, creating new avenues of finance, a bond market and other non-bank lending. But as in Japan, this encouraged banks to lend more, not more wisely, helping fuel a property bubble. Things got worse in 2009, when China launched a 4 trillion yuan, credit-powered stimulus to ward off the global crisis.

<^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ GRAPHIC: China Japan comparisons link.reuters.

While Japan saw credit expand from 127 percent of GDP to 176 percent between 1980 and 1990, China's credit rose from 105 percent in 2000 to 187 percent of GDP last year, JPMorgan Chase in Hong Kong says.

CREDIT RISKS

China's problem now is that each yuan of new investment is yielding a diminishing amount of new GDP. The slowdown is already creating signs of deflationary pressure: producer prices have been falling for 16 months and Morgan Stanley notes that real borrowing costs of 8.7 percent are outpacing the sector's growth.

One risk, therefore, is that China's reforms push growth low enough to trigger a wave of defaults that shakes the entire financial system.

"It's very important to slow down the growth of credit," said Grace Ng, senior China economist at J.P. Morgan in Hong Kong. "But if we slow and de-leverage too much you could have too much downside risk on the real economy."

The bigger risk, she and others caution, is that to avoid social unrest Beijing refuses to tolerate such pain, instead encouraging banks to keep troubled borrowers afloat by rolling over their loans like Japan's banks did in the 1990s, preventing them from lending to profitable new ventures that could revive growth.

Beijing's recent efforts to blunt the slowdown are thus drawing mixed reviews. Last week's announcement by Premier Li that Beijing would cut taxes on small businesses and red tape for importers is seen as welcome restructuring, while boosting credit for foreign trade and speeding up railway investment smacks of mini-bailouts.

Likewise, some economists saw the central bank's move this month to eliminate a floor on lending rates as a positive step towards making banks price loans according to their risk. Others saw Japan-style "regulatory forbearance," a way to help banks refinance loans for their best customers so they can pass the savings to needier borrowers of their own.

"Since profit margins will be cut, banks will try to increase lending volumes by reducing their credit standard," said Wataru Takahashi, a former Bank of Japan official who is now a professor at the Osaka University of Economics. "This is the story of the Japanese banks in the late-1980s."

JAPAN COULD OFFER SOLUTION TOO

Some economists caution against exaggerating the similarities. "Comparing it to Japan in the 1990s is a little bit too much," said Changyong Rhee, chief economist at the Asian Development Bank in Manila.

China's lower development, Rhee and others say, gives it a reservoir of demand that affluent Japan did not have. China's poor, inland provinces do not suffer from overcapacity and it will not take long before China needs the infrastructure projects that now might look like white elephants.

China's push to move more citizens into its cities represents another source of growth.

But lower development also makes it harder to weather weak job growth or stagnant wages. And urbanisation may not be as potent as it once was: with more than half of China already in the cities, the median age in rural areas is roughly 40, not a demographic prone to relocating for new career opportunities.

Ultimately, it may be demographics that put China most firmly on Japan's deflationary trail. Thanks to its one-child policy, China's working age population is already shrinking. That's what happened to Japan in the 1990s, resulting in lower consumption and sharply lower growth rates.

The solution may lie - where else - in Japan, where the government is fighting deflation with aggressive new policies to lower borrowing costs, by boosting government spending and, though it has implemented few of them yet, by removing bottlenecks to growth.

"Two things are needed to avoid deflation after a credit binge," said Ahya at Morgan Stanley. "One is good fiscal and monetary response and the second is structural reforms." (Editing by Neil Fullick)

China risks following Japan into economic coma | Reuters
 
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The problem with China is garbage-quality education, producing garbage-quality workers. Despite all the good reputation in education competition.

And their companies stuck in low-level manufacturing forever, without able to climb the economy ladder. Their so-called CEO, owner or founder...are rural peasant quality.

Combining useless boss with useless workers, that is the reality of mainland economy stagnation (aka coma!).
 
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The problem with China is garbage-quality education, producing garbage-quality workers. Despite all the good reputation in education competition.

And their companies stuck in low-level manufacturing forever, without able to climb the economy ladder. Their so-called CEO, owner or founder...are rural peasant quality.

Combining useless boss with useless workers, that is the reality of mainland economy stagnation (aka coma!).

What? I think my English is better than or at least matches yours, so judging by English competence, my mainland education is not so bad. Be careful at making any generalized statements and don't let your dislike of a government cloud your judgment.

Also refrain from using derogatory terms like peasant etc. Most small family businesses in Zhejiang are owned by former rural residents, but they are the engine of growth. I am pretty sure Zhejiang's living standard will soon match Taiwan's despite the fact that Taiwan has peaceful development ever since WWII and Zhejiang for 30 years. I also don't know how you reached the conclusion that CEOs of medium to large corporations are "rural peasant quality" unless you can prove that we mainland Chinese are all rural peasants.

Also toys and clothing are very very small part of export now. Care to illustrate how China is "forever" stuck in low-level manufacturing?
 
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What? I think my English is better than or at least matches yours, so judging by English competence, my mainland education is not so bad. Be careful at making any generalized statements and don't let your dislike of a government cloud your judgment.

Also refrain from using derogatory terms like peasant etc. Most small family businesses in Zhejiang are owned by former rural residents, but they are the engine of growth. I am pretty sure Zhejiang's living standard will soon match Taiwan's despite the fact that Taiwan has peaceful development ever since WWII and Zhejiang for 30 years. I also don't know how you reached the conclusion that CEOs of medium to large corporations are "rural peasant quality" unless you can prove that we mainland Chinese are all rural peasants.

Also toys and clothing are very very small part of export now. Care to illustrate how China is "forever" stuck in low-level manufacturing?

How many unemployment among university graduate? Almost all of them are unemployed because they are "useless" and "unskilled", or at least far below the standard of what mainland companies need. Garbage workers, educated from garbage universities.

SOEs don't account. How many mainland have private medium and large companies that have world class management? If the foreign educated CEO, owner or founder excluded, the list is almost zero, isn't? Rural peasant quality!

There are some great people...one or two. But that is not enough to support 1.3 billions of people.

Those make China economy stagnant, as mainland missed the opportunity to climb the economy ladder to the next stage, as the high skilled workers required is not available or not enough to support it.

That is why your economy is only growth at 7.5%...outside of SOEs, government spending in infrastructure and foreign investment, China private sector basically is...coma!
 
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How many unemployment among university graduate? Almost all of them are unemployed because they are "useless" and "unskilled", or at least far below the standard of what mainland companies need. Garbage workers, educated from garbage universities.

SOEs don't account. How many mainland have private medium and large companies that have world class management? If the foreign educated CEO, owner or founder excluded, the list is almost zero, isn't? Rural peasant quality!

There are some great people...one or two. But that is not enough to support 1.3 billions of people.

Those make China economy stagnant, as mainland missed the opportunity to climb the economy ladder to the next stage, as the high skilled workers required is not available or not enough to support it.

That is why your economy is only growth at 7.5%...outside of SOEs, government spending in infrastructure and foreign investment, China private sector basically is...coma!

Ignorance.
 
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Ignorance.

You will see and realize it soon.

Taiwan has brain drain issue, you have wrong-education issue. Both of us lack of high skilled workers required to climb economy ladder. You saw Taiwan stagnation, and that is what will happen in mainland too. Unless you do something about it.
 
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You will see and realize it soon.

Taiwan has brain drain issue, you have wrong-education issue. Both of us lack of high skilled workers required to climb economy ladder. You saw Taiwan stagnation, and that is what will happen in mainland too. Unless you do something about it.

Climb the economy ladder? OK. But to where?

Tell you: shoes, clothes, toys etc only account for 15% of China's exports. 50% exports are machine tools, ships, power generation equipment and such heavy machinery. And other 25% exports are electronics. According to UN report, China exports more high-tech items than US and Japan in terms percentage, and even more based on pure value.
UNdata | record view | High-technology exports (% of manufactured exports)

The unemployment of new graduates in China is mainly because of our huge population. Because of modern technologies, workers are much more efficient than before. China can raise entire world. BTW, do you how much a construction worker can earn? In fact, we need more sweat labors, instead of skilled labors. Check this and google more:
???????????????-????

As for the so-called stagnation, it is not necessarily a bad thing. We are not a consumption culture, Japan and Taiwan are the same. It is good for the earth, my personal opinion. And because of tradition, service sector is still lagging behind, that's what we need.
 
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Yeah, and Japan used to have 1/4 of world's industrial capacity and third largest nuclear stockpile. :coffee:

Japan's decline is political instead of economical. There is a price to pay being an effective colony of US.
 
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Yea we have heard this we are Japan story for decades. West is getting real nervous because we are catching up to them so fast economically, financially, technologically, militarily and politically. We have a very resilient economy and a very strong leadership that is able to solve our problems. CPC might have its flaws but under their leadership, China has become powerful and influential in every area. We are going in the right direction.
 
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Yea we have heard this we are Japan story for decades. West is getting real nervous because we are catching up to them so fast economically, financially, technologically, militarily and politically. We have a very resilient economy and a very strong leadership that is able to solve our problems. CPC might have its flaws but under their leadership, China has become powerful and influential in every area. We are going in the right direction.

Chinese economic growth is unprecedented. There is no comparison with the past or present when it comes to the scale and the breadth of growth. As of now, China is the engine of world economic growth. This is a role that neither Japan nor any other countries besides the US had played since 1945. And China is still growing at a fast clip with a dedicated leadership. Even though the leadership need to adjust to this level of development, I'm confident that China will be able to handle the challenges coming its way and continue to pull its people out of poverty.
 
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Yeah, and Japan used to have 1/4 of world's industrial capacity and third largest nuclear stockpile. :coffee:

Japan's decline is political instead of economical. There is a price to pay being an effective colony of US.

Japan had third largest Nuclear stock pile? source please - and if you dont give a source, make sure you apologize for the statement. (neutral and reliable source)
 
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How many unemployment among university graduate? Almost all of them are unemployed because they are "useless" and "unskilled", or at least far below the standard of what mainland companies need. Garbage workers, educated from garbage universities.

SOEs don't account. How many mainland have private medium and large companies that have world class management? If the foreign educated CEO, owner or founder excluded, the list is almost zero, isn't? Rural peasant quality!

There are some great people...one or two. But that is not enough to support 1.3 billions of people.

Those make China economy stagnant, as mainland missed the opportunity to climb the economy ladder to the next stage, as the high skilled workers required is not available or not enough to support it.

That is why your economy is only growth at 7.5%...outside of SOEs, government spending in infrastructure and foreign investment, China private sector basically is...coma!

Google is your friend if you don't know certain things before making any statements. Please google big private companies in China. Also Chinese companies can rely on its domestic market and don't need go international. When they capture the domestic market or the domestic market is saturated, they can consider going outside.

College educated unemployment is not unique to China. Plus, there is a disconnection between what college produces and what companies need. Since you are Chinese, you know how Chinese youth favor white collar jobs and most of them refuse to work for private companies, let alone manufacturing. College education used to be a privilege and now everyone that wants to go to college can go, but the old attitude still lingers on. I am sure this attitude will soon change if they remain unemployed.
 
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Climb the economy ladder? OK. But to where?

Tell you: shoes, clothes, toys etc only account for 15% of China's exports. 50% exports are machine tools, ships, power generation equipment and such heavy machinery. And other 25% exports are electronics. According to UN report, China exports more high-tech items than US and Japan in terms percentage, and even more based on pure value.
UNdata | record view | High-technology exports (% of manufactured exports)

I'm right, the so called shoe company, toy company, cloth company, etc...they don't climb the economy ladder. They stuck forever as OEM company. Or they just know how to copy-cat foreign products, claimed as their own. Almost all of them. One or two cases don't count.

Why is this happening? Education. Both workers and the management.


The unemployment of new graduates in China is mainly because of our huge population. Because of modern technologies, workers are much more efficient than before. China can raise entire world.

That is not true! The real reason because they are unskilled, worthless, because of garbage education.

Because they are unskilled, no company have interest to hire them, even foreign company. Some company that already hired some of them, didn't get any improvement as they hope for. Their products still became a laughable product by people around the world. They know and understand now, that is why they stop hiring, because it useless.

This graduates are real unskilled and worthless. If there's no job available, they can start their own company, like their senior before during '80 and '90, borrowing money from friends and relatives. Starting a company, create jobs. But they can't, because they are unskilled.

We always heard about superior Chinese education, but reality speak differently. This is the truth.


BTW, do you how much a construction worker can earn? In fact, we need more sweat labors, instead of skilled labors. Check this and google more:
???????????????-????

That is not true!

That article speak itself. The university graduates are unskilled and worthless, that is why they just earn so little.

Are you sure that China need more blue-collar workers? Are you sure that China don't need lawyers, designers, architects, writers, animators, artists, etc? In my opinion China need white-collar workers desperately to boast their economy and climb the economy ladder. Desperately now!


As for the so-called stagnation, it is not necessarily a bad thing. We are not a consumption culture, Japan and Taiwan are the same. It is good for the earth, my personal opinion. And because of tradition, service sector is still lagging behind, that's what we need.

Stagnation is a bad thing. How many country around the world want to see China fail? Or at least stagnant.

Your economy growth fall to 7.5%. Not only that, your product design seems not-evolved too.

Do you guys have any "pleasing" explanation about this?
 
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Google is your friend if you don't know certain things before making any statements. Please google big private companies in China. Also Chinese companies can rely on its domestic market and don't need go international. When they capture the domestic market or the domestic market is saturated, they can consider going outside.

College educated unemployment is not unique to China. Plus, there is a disconnection between what college produces and what companies need. Since you are Chinese, you know how Chinese youth favor white collar jobs and most of them refuse to work for private companies, let alone manufacturing. College education used to be a privilege and now everyone that wants to go to college can go, but the old attitude still lingers on. I am sure this attitude will soon change if they remain unemployed.

Your economy now just growth around 7.5%.

And mostly because of government spending on infrastructure...not domestic consumption.

Their problem is not because there's no job available, it's because they are unskilled! Unskilled!
 
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Your economy now just growth around 7.5%.

And mostly because of government spending on infrastructure...not domestic consumption.

for the first time i heard this kind of weird statement ! ! ! do you know how GDP grows ? do you know why governments spend in infrastructure ? is it bad or good ? enlighten me plz.
 
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