China reveals its cards for investing $20 billion in Pakistan

[kbd-raaf]

From reading this thread, it seems pretty clear that it's the Indian members doing most of the "worrying" on behalf of the Pakistanis.



Well let's find out, right?



Influence doesn't mean a loss of sovereignty though.

Sovereignty is a nation/state having authority over and within its own territory.

China has never challenged Pakistan's authority within their own territory, never. If we need some help we'll ask, and since we are friends they will often try to help us.

China is certainly not a saint (or anywhere close), but we are not taking Pakistan's sovereignty, and we are not challenging their authority over their own territory.

Oh we're not worrying. However we would rather that China invested that $20B in India. You could say we're 50% jealous, 50% happy for Pakistan.

Influence in core sectors does equal to a loss of sovereignty. If China wanted, it could cause chaos in Pakistan by just flipping a switch. (not literally of course but you get the idea)

No sovereign country allows foreign control over national resources like that. India welcomes Chinese investment in roads, minority holdings in infrastructure etc

 

[Sugarcane]

LOL!!! Bhartiis still butt hurt? Come on dudes, move on -- Your country get dozens time more foreign investment than Pakistan.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

No sovereign country allows foreign control over national resources like that. India welcomes Chinese investment in roads, minority holdings in infrastructure etc

What resources do we "control" in Pakistan?

What Pakistani companies are owned by China?

What Pakistani infrastructure is owned by China?

You give us too much credit. We don't have nearly as much influence, let alone control within Pakistan's own borders, as some like to think.

 

[Sugarcane]

What resources do we "control" in Pakistan?

What Pakistani companies are owned by China?

What Pakistani infrastructure is owned by China?

You give us too much credit. We don't have nearly as much influence, let alone control within Pakistan's own borders, as some like to think.

Common sense in Indians is not common when it's about Pakistan and particularly when it's China & Pakistan in same sentence.

 

[Armstrong]

@Aeronaut, are we taking away your sovereignty?

Yes I already feel my knees going weak & I bowing before you Shifu !

No...no loss of sovereignty for if past precedent is anything to go by China has never arm twisted Pakistan even when it was in perfect position to do so but on the contrary China has stood by Pakistan in tough times when many had turned their backs on us !

It goes without saying that this is being reported by one-news outlet as far as I can tell so lets wait whether this is a false start or whether there really is something transpiring to begin with but assuming that it is my own understanding is that whatever 'loss of sovereignty' Pakistan would've faced at the hands of the Chinese would've happened either in case of some of our more crucial military acquisitions from China or the Nuclear Energy Co-operation between Pakistan & China !

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

(Edit: Armstrong beat me to it by about 10 seconds , so my post below has largely become rhetorical).

@Armstrong, @LoveIcon, @Aeronaut:

Have we ever challenged Pakistan's sovereignty within Pakistan's own borders? No, right?

In fact the Chinese government constantly releases public statements in support of Pakistan's sovereignty.

Do we have majority ownership in Pakistan's companies, Pakistan's resources and Pakistan's assets? No.

We are in Pakistan doing business, and I'm sure the Pakistani government can see the benefits to Pakistan from an infrastructure building boom.

 

[kbd-raaf]

What resources do we "control" in Pakistan?

What Pakistani companies are owned by China?

What Pakistani infrastructure is owned by China?

You give us too much credit. We don't have nearly as much influence, let alone control within Pakistan's own borders, as some like to think.

Uhh the projects mentioned in the OP.

The infrastructure mentioned in the OP.

Pakistani companies - how is this relevant?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Uhh the projects mentioned in the OP.

The infrastructure mentioned in the OP.

Pakistani companies - how is this relevant?

Except we don't "control" any of that.

We are building it for Pakistan under contract, not for ourselves to own.

 

[kbd-raaf]

Except we don't "control" any of that.

We are building it for Pakistan, not for ourselves to own.

Oh so if you're literally just handing over $20B worth of infrastructure to Pakistan, then I repeal all of my previous posts.

Here I was thinking that they were going to build, operate and own.

 

[Armstrong]

@Armstrong, @LoveIcon, @Aeronaut:

Have we ever challenged Pakistan's sovereignty within Pakistan's own borders? No, right?

In fact the Chinese government constantly releases public statements in support of Pakistan's sovereignty.

Do we have majority ownership in Pakistan's companies, Pakistan's resources and Pakistan's assets? No.

We are in Pakistan doing business, and I'm sure the Pakistani government can see the benefits to Pakistan from an infrastructure building boom.

In the '90s the Motorway Highways that were built by the Koreans was the largest Mega Project in Pakistan of that time & gave Pakistan a State of the Art extensive Highways System that has served us well - I can't imagine what the Koreans got out of us then except maybe the occasional preferential treatment in awarding a few other projects (perhaps not even then) but thats hardly indicative of a loss of sovereignty ?

Heck we even built emergency runways on those Highways for our Airforce later on !

 

[halupridol]

whts the big deal..........money talks...
chinese do gud business....
有錢能使鬼推磨

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Oh so if you're literally just handing over $20B worth of infrastructure to Pakistan, then I repeal all of my previous posts.

Here I was thinking that they were going to build, operate and own.

We are building the projects for Pakistan under contract.

In return we receive payment, goodwill, and a more productive use of our money compared to sitting in US and Euro bonds.

As far as I know, we don't have majority ownership in any of the projects we have built for Pakistan.

 

[Sugarcane]

Oh so if you're literally just handing over $20B worth of infrastructure to Pakistan, then I repeal all of my previous posts.

Here I was thinking that they were going to build, operate and own.

They are going to build and handover and get back their loan in installment.

 

[Armstrong]

Uhh the projects mentioned in the OP.

The infrastructure mentioned in the OP.

Pakistani companies - how is this relevant?

How would the Chinese Companies building Infrastructure for us with the funding provided by different Chinese Corporations give them 'control' or 'ownership' of the Infrastructure ?

The Koreans, when they built the Motorway Highways for us with their own finances, got a share of the profits from the Toll Taxes on them for the next few years to recoup their Investment & get a Return on it as well afterwards the Revenue was the sole prerogative of the National Highway Authority which now adds it to the National Exchequer - I would imagine the same happening in this case !

 

[Sugarcane]

(Edit: Armstrong beat me to it by about 10 seconds , so my post below has largely become rhetorical).

@Armstrong, @LoveIcon, @Aeronaut:

Have we ever challenged Pakistan's sovereignty within Pakistan's own borders? No, right?

In fact the Chinese government constantly releases public statements in support of Pakistan's sovereignty.

Do we have majority ownership in Pakistan's companies, Pakistan's resources and Pakistan's assets? No.

We are in Pakistan doing business, and I'm sure the Pakistani government can see the benefits to Pakistan from an infrastructure building boom.

1. Pakistanis respect China is indicator that China never tried to undermine our sovereignty, nor arm twisting.

2. In majority of cases where we get loans from WB, ADB etc. goes into corruption, at the end we have loans to payback and unfinished projects which are of no use. In case of China belief of common Pakistani is that they don't bribe ruling elite/politicians like American (aka AID) as Chinese loan comes with condition that our company will do project which is beneficial for both i.e. compensate China's soft loan as they get business as well, and for common Pakistani as we get infrastructure built rather than funds end up in Swiss piggy banks.

3. We need energy to kick start our economy which will result in more Infrastructure & economic opportunities for China -

Haters gonna hate but it's win-win