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Featured China reluctant to approve $6b ML-I loan

Yes, in 1976 the Congress government of PM Indira Gandhi amended the Preamble ( intro ) to the Constitution to include the words "Secular and Socialist. But sadly even now India is neither secular nor socialist.



Yes, it seems the first PM, Nehru, was a bit inspired by the Soviet Union and he and his associates introduced Soviet elements like "Five year plans" and a centrally planned economy, those these were half-hearted.



Yes, most Indians seem not to want to revolt against the extremely capitalist and regressive socio-economic culture of the country. They are placid despite the many social wrongs like suicide of 350,000+ farmers just between 1995 and 2015. These suicide happen because of socio-economic reasons. Basically a mass murder tolerated by the System.

The mass revolution of Mao in China does not find takers in Indian society. Indian citizens are ready to be continued to be exploited by the political, economic and religious elite elements but not ready to revolt. Indians have an escapist life. Even the public communist movements say that they want communism attainment in the country by being within the scope of the Constitution. This was told to me by a senior leader of one such group ( I wanted to join that group ). Unfortunately, I didn't ask what he meant. But there is the Naxal / Naxalite guerrilla movement which has taken the path of Mao's revolution and so there are also known in India as the Maoists. They are fighting the Indian State since the 1960s.



Well, the Indian system as maintained by the Establishment was never a socialist system even if it had socialism-inspired elements like Five Year Plans, pensions and a government health system. It was a half-hearted effort. I will copy-paste my post from another thread :
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1. If India was capitalist only during BJP rule why was the Bombay Stock Exchange not shut down during non-BJP rule ? The BSE is one of oldest stock exchanges in the world. Is not a stock exchange a prominent indicator of capitalism ?

2. If PSUs [ government-owned industrial, financial and service organizations ] are indicators of socialism why is it half-done in India ? Why are there life insurance companies and private clinics and hospitals ?

3. Why were mahajans [ traditional private moneylenders ], microfinance institutions and private banks allowed to exist and then to offer loans to farmers at interest ?

4. Why were private education institutions allowed to exist ?

5. Other things I cannot remember now.
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Even tea came to India by the British bringing it.

But there is some development of the railway like cleaner railway stations and redesigned or improved passenger coaches.
Before 1949, China went through 100 years struggle, while in the opposite, India was under British rule.

The British not only rule, but also changed India mindset, culture, the society DNA.

India lack of revolution mindset, I don't see any chance India can revolt and get rid of the burden of legacy.

Rss will rule India for quite many years, if not decades.
 
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YOU are entitled to your own chawal! mian has successfully been selling a chawal and people bought that chawal for 3 decades. despite all of its mal practises certain poojari types can easily mask their eyes and ears and be blind, by choice.

have to say its rich coming from you to ask for some form of accountability when you are always speaking against accountability and to you its subjected accountability. let noonies off the hook and everyone else is corrupt.

I prefer the truth which is not subjected.

In medieval Iraq, they used to have a tradition of cursing the former ruler as means of legitimacy of the current.

You are afterall bound by such ancient traditions culturally.
 
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In medieval Iraq, they used to have a tradition of cursing the former ruler as means of legitimacy of the current.

You are afterall bound by such ancient traditions culturally.
What they didn't practise it in your ancient hittite? or rome? does nonsense cover your tracks quite well?
 
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What they didn't practise it in your ancient hittite? or rome? does nonsense cover your tracks quite well?

Either you think surrounding oneself with incompetence makes one competent or you believe competency is impotent to not judge incompetence.

Both ways you can service your Pharoah as free will too
 
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Either you think surrounding oneself with incompetence makes one competent or you believe competency is impotent to not judge incompetence.

Both ways you can service your Pharoah as free will too
when you point a finger at other at least three point back!! what you said perfectly fits tooi party like hand in glove!
 
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when you point a finger at other at least three point back!! what you said perfectly fits tooi party like hand in glove!
Whose stopping anyone from holding anyone accountable? People just take a disliking to selective nature of the said activity.

Now you are not even willing to understand that PM has little or no concept of how corruption works, has signed favorable legislature for friends battling accountability cases for which he was censored and has signature on many schemes currently employed in corrupt practices.

His political gimmick is to bank upon whatever legacy Sharifs have left in Punjab and he dare not enter Sindh or Balochistan while his strong ethnic support coupled with dubious views on WoT is enough to keep himself politically alive.

His funders and backers will get what they want from him not his fans or voters.
 
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Whose stopping anyone from holding anyone accountable? People just take a disliking to selective nature of the said activity.

Now you are not even willing to understand that PM has little or no concept of how corruption works, has signed favorable legislature for friends battling accountability cases for which he was censored and has signature on many schemes currently employed in corrupt practices.

His political gimmick is to bank upon whatever legacy Sharifs have left in Punjab and he dare not enter Sindh or Balochistan while his strong ethnic support coupled with dubious views on WoT is enough to keep himself politically alive.

His funders and backers will get what they want from him not his fans or voters.
 
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AB and WB has already proposed a stage wise build up of ML1 Which was thrown out in PMLN era

Since ML1 Covers 70% of population its better to just bite the bullet
ML-1 is critically important and so is a mass transit system for Pakistan's largest city which still provides 60% of the tax revenue in this dilapidated and neglected state.
Thinking has to change and planners and people should not be hostage to either china or US or EU for hand holding.
 
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Pakistan wants concessional loans whereas China wants to give expensive commercial loans. Pakistan already said they want terms of loans renegotiated bcz of very high interest rates. Chinese as usual trying to milk the cow but in the end they will settle for something in middle.
 
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I am disappoint to know that China is reluctant to give mere US $ 6 Billion to its strategic ally that too over period of 10 years.
Agreed. This is a country for whom $6 billion is just small pocket change. Here is interesting fact. USA gave Western Europe $17 billion in aid as part of Marshall Plan over 5 years from 1948 onwards. That is over $202 billion dollars in todays money.

$202 billion

Compared that with poxy $6 billion and even that is loan and the whole sticking point is over whether repayments are 2% or less. After recieving this injection of over $200 billion Western Europe had recovered from the war by 1952 and was booming. The benefit to USA has been Western Europe has been a stalwart ally, prosperous and can help Washington. Food for thought for Chinese. If they pumped $200 billion into Pakistan they would have a solid, prosperous and strong ally on their southern flank.

President Harry Truman signed the Marshall Plan on April 3, 1948, granting $5 billion in aid to 16 European nations. During the four years the plan was in effect, the United States donated $17 billion (equivalent to $202.18 billion in 2019) in economic and technical assistance to help the recovery of the European countries that joined the Organisation for European Economic Co-operation. The $17 billion was in the context of a US GDP of $258 billion in 1948
 
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Agreed. This is a country for whom $6 billion is just small pocket change. Here is interesting fact. USA gave Western Europe $17 billion in aid as part of Marshall Plan over 5 years from 1948 onwards. That is over $202 billion dollars in todays money.

$202 billion

Compared that with poxy $6 billion and even that is loan and the whole sticking point is over whether repayments are 2% or less. After recieving this injection of over $200 billion Western Europe had recovered from the war by 1952 and was booming. The benefit to USA has been Western Europe has been a stalwart ally, prosperous and can help Washington. Food for thought for Chinese. If they pumped $200 billion into Pakistan they would have a solid, prosperous and strong ally on their southern flank.

President Harry Truman signed the Marshall Plan on April 3, 1948, granting $5 billion in aid to 16 European nations. During the four years the plan was in effect, the United States donated $17 billion (equivalent to $202.18 billion in 2019) in economic and technical assistance to help the recovery of the European countries that joined the Organisation for European Economic Co-operation. The $17 billion was in the context of a US GDP of $258 billion in 1948

Western Europe had a very stable business environment and good management culture prior to the war. West German chancellor Konrad Adenauer’s practical foreign policy and forward looking economic policies made a huge difference as compared to the less business friendly policies of Charles de Gaulle.

If the Chinese invested into a few key industries and provided help to local companies and R&D facilities would indeed go along way to creating a stable strong power on its south western border.

They can built pipelines from the gulf Arab countries (through an undersea pipeline) and Iran through Pakistan, with sustainable brutality payment to Pakistan, it would create a stable albeit modest income stream similar to the Suez canal for Egypt. Royalty payment in a mix of cash and oil/gas would also help build up the petrochemical industry. Chinese Investment into the agricultural sector would go along way to grow high yield crops; process to make high value added items, for export to China and the rest of the world. Help in setting up tourism appealing to a wide global audience would also go far in attracting revenue. $200 billion in FDI would pay dividends for China, even if amortized over 20 years.

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On the issue of raising funding for the railways; focus on the stations. For the initial phase; start with Peshawar to Lahore. At Peshawar, Islamabad/Rawalpindi and Lahore rebuild the station into a destination onto itself. Railway stations around the world have always had their own hotel as well as sometimes a mini-resort or shopping mall. There is no reason, this same model could jot be done in Pakistan. International travelers and overseas Pakistanis may also find a hotel at the city’s train station a more “known” factor and a more “comfortable” jumping off point to go explore the city or venture further. Longer stays of a week or weeks could also help bring in business.

Also the train station should be turned into multimodal hubs, where all the cities bus terminals in the general area are rebuild as a part of the train station. This train/bus station should also have a connection with the local metro bus/train system. Guaranteed contracts for business to the hotel can also be a way to guarantee the venture will raise revenue. Restrictions on competition (such as for another mall or hotel) within some fixed radius (1-2 km) will also ensure business will flow to this area.

another key way to raise revenues is to have contracts for commodities warehouses and warehousing goods transported by rail instead of by truck. Land in an around stations or in key pouts along the route can help in this regard. Being the most efficient logistics company in Pakistan; as the multimodal hub for shipping; either by rail or road will help this supporting enterprise revolutionize supply chains in the country. These warehouses could also be home to data centers and the train routes could also be routes for high speed internet through fiber optics, another business opportunity. Rail routes could also make up a much more affordable shared commuter rail system; over dedicated metro-trains and the rail company could lease time on the tracks to private or municipal commuter rail companies to generate revenue.

All of this will help raise more than enough funds to run a profit for the hotel/station and fund the construction of the tracks in between.

Phase 2 should be Karachi to Hyderabad, so give travelers to the south of the country quicker service and the second best hub to raise revenue. With these two phases up and running, the network can be extended further as the funds come in. Stations/hotels in cities between Lahore and Hyderabad could be build in anticipation of the increase in business coming their way, and a way to get the investors to get some returns before some of it has to go into railway construction.

Key bridges in between Hyderabad and Lahore could be rebuilt, Grade separations put in place at major intersections, and realigning the route in key places could be done ahead of laying down major sections of new track.

They key to world class infrastructure like that transit hubs I mention, are to create a “downtown” that would attract global companies and global workers (such as IT businesses) to generate revenue that wouldn’t have otherwise been generated there, and take the burden off the public as well as creating a cycle of induced demand. these downtowns could also be the place foreign companies, especially Chinese companies could make their local headquarters, and through use of the amenities and transportation; such as commuter rail, work downtown and commute to a nice house/apartment in DHA or Bahria Town or a more modest neighborhood.

For instance; The Peshawar-Lahore corridor could also be a safe spot for foreign companies looking to set up offices if they enter the National or regional mining and agricultural sectors, but may not want to be based away from amenities and in areas that maybe a bit more volatile at times, even if business is booming.

Attract the wealthy, attract top talent, and create improved efficiency in current businesses and you’ll have an eco-system that will support/subsidize the less profitable passenger rail. Also don’t for get to factor in retired overseas Pakistanis; with disposable income and for those that return, sightseeing amenities/tourism (world class dining) can create the greatest advocates for their extended network of Pakistani and non-Pakistani friends to visit and spend.

Mae need to leverage economies of scales across as many sectors as possible to generate interest in getting the best loan offers from multiple options and pick the terms and conditions that work for Pakistan.

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a feasibility study with cost estimates for the entire route should be done. Then options opened up for investors on terms and conditions for each section. If the business that help fund the railway have a solid basis, even overseas Pakistanis maybe willing to put up the funding (at least for the most profitable parts) if they know they will get a better ROI then real estate. The government could slowly connect the less profitable parts as it is doing with the motorway network.
 
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ML-1 is critically important and so is a mass transit system for Pakistan's largest city which still provides 60% of the tax revenue in this dilapidated and neglected state.
Thinking has to change and planners and people should not be hostage to either china or US or EU for hand holding.
No transit system can run heavily on federal support
A transit should be able to pay for itslef(running cost) if it cant then planning was horrible and load wasnt properly calculated
Punjab should have approached WB/AB did a proper study and clear int. bidding and development rather then using chinese funds without any of the above
 
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had they done that, 180% of it would have ended up in in UK, USA, and Swiss banks. when the USAid UKaid discoverd that Pakistanis were stealing the aid monies, they devised a new plan. asked them to show the project plans and show the site in person to a rep, complete the project, we check it by visitng the site, then give you the monies. guess what? the fat pandit family found a way around it, albeit not as blatant as before (i.e fake projects) but now they were over-invoicing (stealing 2 millions out of every 10)
If people of pakstan are okay with corruption why isnt USAID cool with it??
 
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Since the west and India have been accusing China of using "debt trap" loans to "take advantage" and "exploit " Pakistan for years, isn't it supposed to be a good news for Pakistan if true?
 
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