China rapidly narrows technology gap with S. Korea

[j20blackdragon]

I'm also willing to predict that within 5-10 years China's auto industry will totally eclipse South Korea's mostly irrelevant auto industry.

Two years ago China became the world’s largest importer of industrial robots, and the International Federation of Robotics, an industry group, estimates that China will account for more than a third of all industrial robots installed worldwide by 2018.

China Aims to Retool Its Manufacturing Industry with Robots | MIT Technology Review

Once these industrial robots are in service, the quality of Chinese automobiles will skyrocket.

China is already the largest producer of automobiles in the world. It won't take much for China to become the 'world factory' for automobiles too.

Production Statistics | OICA

Also if you notice in the table above, China is one of the largest manufacturers of heavy commercial vehicles. In fact, China is right up there with the USA. South Korea is pretty small in comparison.

 

[Haroon Syed]

China is already ahead..look at dsi,df20,50,60 and jf 17 till infinity.

 

[antonius123]

It is inept to use per capita innovation ( based on no. of applications of patents. et al ) as a factor to say because S Korean's per capita number is higher than China's so S Koreans are more innovative

Some data can be used for comparison on a "per capita" basis like GDP, average life-span etc because they are readily quantifiable but. many cannot like innovation because it involves the "impact of innovation" and "technical sophistication" which are not quantilfied in the charts. Like the cost of just one jet engine is worth say US$2 to 3 million against the cost of a single cell phone of US$ 500 - 800 apiece

But judging from the sheer number of patent applications filed by China alone. it is about 4 times of that of S korea's and as far as trademarks and industrial designs are concerned, China is the runaway winners in the categories. Yes, no "impact" of those are quanified as yet so using the above to say S Koreans are more "per capita" innovative than China is amateurish

You can arguably scale down the population size of China to that of S Korea's to make the comparison on equal basis if you are stubbornly insistent but then the result looms out easily on who is the winner

.
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Patent application number doesnt show the advance level of technology mastery.

It only show how rapid he is running. If a man run the fastest doesnt mean he already ahead, maybe he is still behind but catching up rapidly

China is ahead US in patent application doesnt mean that China is already ahead US in technology mastery.

Simply rambling out a list of industries without giving examples doesn't prove anything.

Also I know you're bullsh*tting when you say South Korea is ahead of China when it comes to construction. It simply isn't.

The tallest skyscraper in East Asia is in China.

Shanghai Tower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The tallest skyscraper in East Asia under construction is in China.

Ping An Finance Centre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The world's longest bridges are in China.

List of longest bridges in the world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The world's largest expressway network is in China.

Expressways of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The world's largest high speed rail network is in China.

List of high-speed railway lines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kindly explain to me how South Korea is ahead of China when it comes to construction.

Not me bullshitting, I am talking based on data as shown in the graphic - see again yourself. It is you are. Dont be bias.

Sorry the story you drag is not objective to be used to indicate who is ahead in construction technology mastery. If Korea has no chance to build such a long bridge, or railway doesnt mean she is not advanced enough in construction technology.

Well, China has more display manufacturer than Korea, but does it mean that Korea behind in the technology mastery?

Sorry but the number of output or factory is not right indication of technology mastery

 

[Martian2]

Huawei sells the world's most advanced gigabit switches and wireless routers

You (Antonius) need to stop making bullshit claims. You claimed South Korea is ahead of China in telecom. That is a lie.

Huawei is the world's largest telecom equipment manufacturer. Huawei builds gigabit switches and advanced wireless routers. Furthermore, Huawei build's the world's most advanced mobile base stations.

Regarding telecommunications satellites, China's DFH-4 can carry up to 54 transponders. South Korea has nothing comparable.

You (Antonius) also made the bullshit claim that South Korea is ahead in automobile technology. What does that mean? Can South Korean cars achieve 10 extra miles per gallon in gas mileage? If not, where does your claim of years of superiority in automobile technology come from?

Huawei S5700-HI Series Advanced Gigabit Enterprise Switches — Huawei products

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China's DFH-4 telecommunications satellite specifications.

 

[antonius123]

Huawei sells the world's most advanced gigabit switches and wireless routers

You (Antonius) need to stop making bullshit claims. You claimed South Korea is ahead of China in telecom. That is a lie.

Sorry it is not my claim. Please read again the table.

Huawei is the world's largest telecom equipment manufacturer. Huawei builds gigabit switches and advanced wireless routers. Furthermore, Huawei build's the world's most advanced mobile base stations.

Regarding telecommunications satellites, China's DFH-4 can carry up to 54 transponders. South Korea has nothing comparable.

So the largest and most output is the indicator of the technology mastery in your logic?

I dont know whether South Korea has comparable thing with DFH-4 or not, but for sure you cannot cherry picking in judging technology mastery level.

You (Antonius) also made the bullshit claim that South Korea is ahead in automobile technology. What does that mean? Can South Korean cars achieve 10 extra miles per gallon in gas mileage? If not, where does your claim of years of superiority in automobile technology come from?

Sorry it is not me, it is the data said so.

Again you are cherry picking.

I believe most people know who is ahead in automotive tech. Even in China Hyundai sell more than any chinese brand car. The level of quality is still ahead eventhough not much.

 

[Martian2]

GlobalSecurity says South Korea has to buy European telecommunications satellites

GlobalSecurity says South Korea had to buy a European telecommunications satellite in 2008. This means South Korea can't build its own modern telecommunications satellite.

In contrast, China's DFH-4 telecommunications satelitte is exported to many countries around the world.

You (Antonius) have got some nerve in claiming that South Korea is ahead of China in telecoms. South Korea isn't even a competitor. The South Koreans have to buy from Europe.

South Korea and Satellite Communication Systems
"KOREASAT-6 - On May 14, 2008 Thales Alenia Space announced that it has signed a contract with Korea Telecom (KT) to provide their next telecommunication satellite, Koreasat 6. For this contract, Thales Alenia Space teamed with U.S manufacturer, Orbital Sciences Corporation (Orbital) who will provide satellite platform. As prime contractor, Thales Alenia Space will have overall responsibility for design, manufacturing and test of the Koreasat 6 satellite and Ground Segment, as well as Launch and Early Operations Phase (LEOP), In-Orbit Test (IOT) support and associated services. Thales Alenia Space will procure Orbital's small sized GEO platform, STAR-2, and will manufacture the communications payload. Designed for 15 years lifetime, Koreasat 6 satellite will have 30 active Ku-band transponders with 2750 kg launch mass, and 3.4 kW payload power. The satellite, scheduled to be launch late 2010, will be positioned at 116 degrees East and will provide broadcasting and telecommunications services over Korea."

Sorry it is not my claim. Please read again the table.




So the largest and most output is the indicator of the technology mastery in your logic?

I dont know whether South Korea has comparable thing with DFH-4 or not, but for sure you cannot cherry picking in judging technology mastery level.




Sorry it is not me, it is the data said so.

Again you are cherry picking.

I believe most people know who is ahead in automotive tech. Even in China Hyundai sell more than any chinese brand car. The level of quality is still ahead eventhough not much.

Selling more cars does not mean a 3 to 5 year advantage in technology.

Cars are mid-tech. No one refers to cars as high tech.

Car technology is mature and most cars have the same performance. Their gas mileages are all pretty much the same.
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I have a citation from the United States Department of Commerce in 2009 that says Chinese machine tools were down to 3 microns. Show me proof to back up your claim that South Korea is years ahead in machine tools, which is another one of your bullshit claims.

China produces a 3-micron five-axis CNC machine tool.

Critical Technology Assessment: Five Axis Simultaneous Control Machine Tools (p. 48)

Not really..

Semiconductor, Display tech, Robotic, Medical Equipment, Automotive, Chemicals, Telco, industrial machinery, nano material, ocean, construction, medical care, energy, actually is very ample.

You made these bullshit claims. Now, I want to see proof. I've shown you my arguments.

Now, I want you to back up your claims.

 

[antonius123]

GlobalSecurity says South Korea has to buy European telecommunications satellites

GlobalSecurity says South Korea had to buy a European telecommunications satellite in 2008. This means South Korea can't build its own modern telecommunications satellite.

In contrast, China's DFH-4 telecommunications satelitte is exported to many countries around the world.

You (Antonius) have got some nerve in claiming that South Korea is ahead of China in telecoms. South Korea isn't even a competitor. The South Koreans have to buy from Europe.

South Korea and Satellite Communication Systems
"KOREASAT-6 - On May 14, 2008 Thales Alenia Space announced that it has signed a contract with Korea Telecom (KT) to provide their next telecommunication satellite, Koreasat 6. For this contract, Thales Alenia Space teamed with U.S manufacturer, Orbital Sciences Corporation (Orbital) who will provide satellite platform. As prime contractor, Thales Alenia Space will have overall responsibility for design, manufacturing and test of the Koreasat 6 satellite and Ground Segment, as well as Launch and Early Operations Phase (LEOP), In-Orbit Test (IOT) support and associated services. Thales Alenia Space will procure Orbital's small sized GEO platform, STAR-2, and will manufacture the communications payload. Designed for 15 years lifetime, Koreasat 6 satellite will have 30 active Ku-band transponders with 2750 kg launch mass, and 3.4 kW payload power. The satellite, scheduled to be launch late 2010, will be positioned at 116 degrees East and will provide broadcasting and telecommunications services over Korea."

Selling more cars does not mean a 3 to 5 year advantage in technology.

Cars are mid-tech. No one refers to cars as high tech.

Car technology is mature and most cars have the same performance. Their gas mileages are all pretty much the same.
----------

I have a citation from the United States Department of Commerce in 2009 that says Chinese machine tools were down to 3 microns. Show me proof to back up your claim that South Korea is years ahead in machine tools, which is another one of your bullshit claims.

China produces a 3-micron five-axis CNC machine tool.

Critical Technology Assessment: Five Axis Simultaneous Control Machine Tools (p. 48)

You made these bullshit claims. Now, I want to see proof. I've shown you my arguments.

Now, I want you to back up your claims.

I am just repeating what the article said:

Electronic, Information, Communication Korea is ahead 1.8 year (in 2014) according to this table.

According to the report by the Korea Institute for Industrial Economics and Trade (KIET), South Korean manufacturers have an average 3.3-year lead over their Chinese counterparts.
China rapidly narrows technology gap with S. Korea

I dont know how KIET do the calculation. I dont want to cherry picking as well.

Maybe China is much ahead Korea in CNC machine tools, but maybe Korea is ahead China in other industrial machinery.

As Korean-made machinery products have comparative advantages over those from China in terms of quality, the rate of Korean companies’ advance into Chinese market is expected to increase significantly in the medium-and longterm.

As of last year, China emerged as the world’s largest importer of Korean-made general machinery comprising 24.2% of Korea’s total machinery exports, but recently the balance of payments remains to be seen gradually decreased.
Industrial motor – Korean-Machinery.com

 

[Martian2]

I am just repeating what the article said:

Electronic, Information, Communication Korea is ahead 1.8 year (in 2014) according to this table.

According to the report by the Korea Institute for Industrial Economics and Trade (KIET), South Korean manufacturers have an average 3.3-year lead over their Chinese counterparts.
China rapidly narrows technology gap with S. Korea

I dont know how KIET do the calculation. I dont want to cherry picking as well.

Maybe China is much ahead Korea in CNC machine tools, but maybe Korea is ahead China in other industrial machinery.

As Korean-made machinery products have comparative advantages over those from China in terms of quality, the rate of Korean companies’ advance into Chinese market is expected to increase significantly in the medium-and longterm.

As of last year, China emerged as the world’s largest importer of Korean-made general machinery comprising 24.2% of Korea’s total machinery exports, but recently the balance of payments remains to be seen gradually decreased.
Industrial motor – Korean-Machinery.com

The article is garbage.

China builds the world's fastest supercomputer.

China's high-speed rail is the world's fastest at 350km per hour.

China builds J-20 and J-31 stealth fighters.

Only China and the US builds Aegis-class destroyers.

China builds compact nuclear reactors for its submarines.

China landed its Yutu land rover on the Moon.

China has conducted a spacewalk.

China has conducted an automatic docking in space.

China builds billion-dollar offshore oil platforms.

China builds its WS-10A turbofan engine.

China has shot a 4-foot cube satellite orbiting at 22,000 miles per hour.

And you're going to believe some ridiculous chart claiming that South Korea is ahead of China in technology?
----------

Here are more Chinese technology giants.

 

[antonius123]

The article is garbage.

China builds the world's fastest supercomputer.

China's high-speed rail is the world's fastest at 350km per hour.

China builds J-20 and J-31 stealth fighters.

Only China and the US builds Aegis-class destroyers.

China builds compact nuclear reactors for its submarines.

China landed its Yutu land rover on the Moon.

China has conducted a spacewalk.

China has conducted an automatic docking in space.

China builds billion-dollar offshore oil platforms.

China has shot a 4-foot cube satellite orbiting at 22,000 miles per hour.

And you're going to believe some ridiculous chart claiming that South Korea is ahead of China in technology?
----------

Here are more Chinese technology giants.

Nobody deny that China is ahead Korea in military and aerospace technology.

Please dont be bias. KIET never said that Korea is ahead in every field of tech.

Maybe KIET is not 100% correct. But they are correct when saying that Korea is still ahead in several civil technology.

Do you want to deny that Korea is still ahead China in Semiconductor technology? Display Technology?

 

[Martian2]

Nobody deny that China is ahead Korea in military and aerospace technology.

Please dont be bias. KIET never said that Korea is ahead in every field of tech.

Maybe KIET is not 100% correct. But they are correct when saying that Korea is still ahead in several civil technology.

Do you want to deny that Korea is still ahead China in Semiconductor technology? Display Technology?

I've already said Samsung licenses its 14nm semiconductor technology from IBM. Korea cannot claim it as indigenous.

Go ahead and explain to me how Korea is ahead in display technology. The most-purchased displays are LCD. China produces 4K and 10K ultra HD LCD displays.

Now, explain to me how Korea is ahead in display technology.
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TV with 10K resolution exhibited by Chinese BOE - FlatpanelsHD

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The price is right: why China is all set to dominate 4K TV | TechRadar

 

[antonius123]

I've already said Samsung licenses its 14nm semiconductor technology from IBM. Korea cannot claim it as indigenous.

Doest matter it is indigenous or not, the point is this technology mastery put Korea ahead China already.

Korea is also ahead in DRAM and NAND technology.

There is reason why chinese company try to buy Fairchild, Micron, etc where the technology mastery pursuance is one of the major one.

Go ahead and explain to me how Korea is ahead in display technology. The most-purchased displays are LCD. China produces 4K and 10K ultra HD LCD displays.

Now, explain to me how Korea is ahead in display technology.
----------

TV with 10K resolution exhibited by Chinese BOE - FlatpanelsHD

----------

The price is right: why China is all set to dominate 4K TV | TechRadar

Again, output and market share doesnt indicate technology level. Price (especially), Quality, Design talks.

Korea is leading (ahead China) in OLED technology.

LG could be 10 years ahead of Samsung on OLED TVs


Quality vs. Quantity
Korean LCD Industry to Beat Chinese Rivals with OLED Panels


LG's 55 inch wallpaper OLED display panel hangs on the wall with magnets.

SEOUL, SOUTH KOREA
10 July 2015 - 2:15pm
Cho Jin-young

As Chinese LCD makers are expected to outperform Korean rival companies in 8th-generation panels from next year, Samsung Display and LG Display apparently intend to expand their facilities for OLED panels.

According to industry sources on July 9, Samsung Display started to operate its A3 line for small and medium-sized flexible OLED displays last April, planning to continue investment in its A2 line for small-to mid-sized OLED panels within the year. The decision is attributable to the belief that it will be more beneficial to reduce cost by changing existing equipment in the A2 plant so that it can be used to make flexible OLED panels, rather than making a second investment in its A3 line right away.

The A3 line, which was already invested in before, can produce up to 30,000 units a month. A source close to Samsung Display explained, “The operation of the A3 plant is still in its early stages. Since there is still enough free space, the plant will have much more production facilities in the mid-long term.”

LG Display is also cautiously preparing to enlarge its OLED production facilities. Some in the industry recently said that the company will invest up to 900 billion won (US$796 million) to build a factory for small and mid-sized OLED panels in Gumi, North Gyeongsang Province. However, a spokesperson for LG Display said, “We are considering making an investment, but we haven't decided yet.”

The reason for the two companies' focus on investing in OLED production facilities lies in the fact that while Chinese LCD makers are contributing to oversupply in the market, there is a sluggish demand for TVs, PCs, and mobile devices.

Market research firm IHS iSuppli recently predicted that Chinese LCD manufacturers would beat Korean competitors in 8th-generation panels next year. Chinese companies are expected to produce 1.2 times as many 8th-generation OLED panels as Korean firms in 2016. China's 8th-generation OLED display production capacity is currently 86 percent that of Korea.

As for OLED panels, the possibility of losing market dominance to Chinese LCD makers for a short period of time is widely acknowledged to be minimal due to the gap between Korea and China in technology. Even though the dependence of LCD manufacturers on part assembly is relatively high, OLED panels are not easy to make, since it is necessary to vapor-deposit organic or non-organic material on a glass or plastic substrate. Therefore, it is difficult for latecomers to get a yield rate of 98 percent with OLED panels.

The OLED panel market, which was estimated at US$8.23168 billion in 2014, will grow from US$11 billion in 2015 to US$12.63481 in 2016, surpassing US$20 billion in 2020, according to market research firm DisplaySearch.

- See more at: Quality vs. Quantity: Korean LCD Industry to Beat Chinese Rivals with OLED Panels | BusinessKorea

 

[Martian2]

Doest matter it is indigenous or not, the point is this technology mastery put Korea ahead China already.

Korea is also ahead in DRAM and NAND technology.

There is reason why chinese company try to buy Fairchild, Micron, etc where the technology mastery pursuance is one of the major one.




Again, output and market share doesnt indicate technology level. Price (especially), Quality, Design talks.

Korea is leading (ahead China) in OLED technology.

LG could be 10 years ahead of Samsung on OLED TVs


Quality vs. Quantity
Korean LCD Industry to Beat Chinese Rivals with OLED Panels


LG's 55 inch wallpaper OLED display panel hangs on the wall with magnets.

SEOUL, SOUTH KOREA
10 July 2015 - 2:15pm
Cho Jin-young

As Chinese LCD makers are expected to outperform Korean rival companies in 8th-generation panels from next year, Samsung Display and LG Display apparently intend to expand their facilities for OLED panels.

According to industry sources on July 9, Samsung Display started to operate its A3 line for small and medium-sized flexible OLED displays last April, planning to continue investment in its A2 line for small-to mid-sized OLED panels within the year. The decision is attributable to the belief that it will be more beneficial to reduce cost by changing existing equipment in the A2 plant so that it can be used to make flexible OLED panels, rather than making a second investment in its A3 line right away.

The A3 line, which was already invested in before, can produce up to 30,000 units a month. A source close to Samsung Display explained, “The operation of the A3 plant is still in its early stages. Since there is still enough free space, the plant will have much more production facilities in the mid-long term.”

LG Display is also cautiously preparing to enlarge its OLED production facilities. Some in the industry recently said that the company will invest up to 900 billion won (US$796 million) to build a factory for small and mid-sized OLED panels in Gumi, North Gyeongsang Province. However, a spokesperson for LG Display said, “We are considering making an investment, but we haven't decided yet.”

The reason for the two companies' focus on investing in OLED production facilities lies in the fact that while Chinese LCD makers are contributing to oversupply in the market, there is a sluggish demand for TVs, PCs, and mobile devices.

Market research firm IHS iSuppli recently predicted that Chinese LCD manufacturers would beat Korean competitors in 8th-generation panels next year. Chinese companies are expected to produce 1.2 times as many 8th-generation OLED panels as Korean firms in 2016. China's 8th-generation OLED display production capacity is currently 86 percent that of Korea.

As for OLED panels, the possibility of losing market dominance to Chinese LCD makers for a short period of time is widely acknowledged to be minimal due to the gap between Korea and China in technology. Even though the dependence of LCD manufacturers on part assembly is relatively high, OLED panels are not easy to make, since it is necessary to vapor-deposit organic or non-organic material on a glass or plastic substrate. Therefore, it is difficult for latecomers to get a yield rate of 98 percent with OLED panels.

The OLED panel market, which was estimated at US$8.23168 billion in 2014, will grow from US$11 billion in 2015 to US$12.63481 in 2016, surpassing US$20 billion in 2020, according to market research firm DisplaySearch.

- See more at: Quality vs. Quantity: Korean LCD Industry to Beat Chinese Rivals with OLED Panels | BusinessKorea

When you license someone else's technology, other countries can license it too. It is a political issue. It is not an example of superior Korean technology. It is an example of superior American technology.

If you want to discuss semiconductor output, China has access to TSMC's cutting-edge 16nm FINFET+ technology. In fact, Huawei's Kirin has already been manufactured on TSMC's 16nm node. There is no Korean advantage in output.

Reference: 16nm Huawei Kirin 950 launched in Beijing, here are the full specifications

Memory is simple technology. No one refers to memory as cutting edge. Samsung has the deepest pockets and it's driving its competitors out of business through price wars. Memory is not an example of technological strength.

OLED is an experimental technology. Every company has its own experimental technology (see China's TCL Quantum Dot TV).

Reference: China's TCL Unveils China’s First Quantum Dot TV with ShineOn’s Unique Backlight Solution at CES 2015

I want to talk about real-world technology.

China's BOE has demonstrated a 10K ultra HD LCD TV with 44 million pixels. Now, show me a real-world Korean display LCD TV that beats China's 10K ultra HD LCD.

 

[antonius123]

When you license someone else's technology, other countries can license it too. It is a political issue. It is not an example of superior Korean technology. It is an example of superior American technology.

If you want to discuss semiconductor output, China has access to TSMC's cutting-edge 16nm FINFET+ technology. In fact, Huawei's Kirin has already been manufactured on TSMC's 16nm node. There is no Korean advantage in output.

Reference: 16nm Huawei Kirin 950 launched in Beijing, here are the full specifications

Memory is simple technology. No one refers to memory as cutting edge. Samsung has the deepest pockets and it's driving its competitors out of business through price wars. Memory is not an example of technological strength.

It is not about "access" it is about "mastery" of fab technology.

Huawei need overseas fab to build their 16nm Kirin. Samsung doesnt need overseas fab to build their 14nm. It already shows Korea has mastery the most cutting edge fab technology than China.

What do you think the reason China is eager to buy Fairchild, Micron, etc?

OLED is an experimental technology. Every company has its own experimental technology (see China's TCL Quantum Dot TV).

Reference: China's TCL Unveils China’s First Quantum Dot TV with ShineOn’s Unique Backlight Solution at CES 2015

I want to talk about real-world technology.

China's BOE has demonstrated a 10K ultra HD LCD TV with 44 million pixels. Now, show me a real-world Korean display LCD TV that beats China's 10K ultra HD LCD.

OLED is not experimental anymore, OLED is already in the market.
OLED will be future of the display, China Japan Taiwan are racing fiercely in this field as well.

I would say China and Korea is on par in term of this resolution. But Korea is still ahead in OLED - the future of display. Therefore overall yes we can say that Korea is still ahead in display technology.

Samsung is developing 11K display.
Samsung is developing an 11k 'super-resolution' display TV screen | Daily Mail Online

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Quantum dot displays are actually superior to OLED in terms of lifetime due to less ion migration from electrodes or electrode coatings into the active layer.

 

[Martian2]

Huawei need overseas fab to build their 16nm Kirin.
Samsung doesnt need overseas fab to build their 14nm.

It already shows Korea has mastery the most cutting edge fab technology than China.





OLED is not experimental anymore, OLED is already in the market.
OLED will be future of the display, China Japan Taiwan are racing fiercely in this field as well.

I would say China and Korea is on par in term of this resolution. But Korea is still ahead in OLED - the future of display. Therefore overall yes we can say that Korea is still ahead in display technology.

Samsung is developing 11K display.
Samsung is developing an 11k 'super-resolution' display TV screen | Daily Mail Online

So what? Who cares if an overseas fab is building it. Huawei can have its 16nm chips built.

Samsung licenses IBM's technology. Huawei contracts directly with TSMC and avoids the overhead of paying for a fab and a license fee. Since the semiconductor technology is not indigenous to either Korea or China, Huawei has the better lower-cost business model.

OLED and Quantum Dot TVs have negligible market share.

Neither technology has proven itself.

No one knows who the next-generation technology winner will be.

China's BOE has its own 10K TV technology ready. Samsung is only DEVELOPING 11K TV technology. That means Samsung is only in the research and development phase. China's BOE has already built a real 10K TV. Samsung is behind in LCD technology.

You have not proven superior Korean display technology.