China-Pakistan Economic Corridor: PM approves over $38bn projects

[Muhammad usman6789]

I love Pakistan

 

[Chak Bamu]

Not the pessimism but even I think the same. Simple reason,

Why shud anyone believe that this will be executed?

Reasons :
Involvement of China and complete permission by Pakistan to do any development China wants to do in Pak.
Pakistan saw that development during Musharraf too. So not a new phenomenon.
Devlopment is a natural process and if remaining, it will automatically fill its space if given even a little leverage.

So u see Pakistan has all the right reasons to develop and apply all the plans its establishment drafts. But again,

China needs a conducive development atmosphere. Does Pak have it now?
Musharraf executed coz he was the militaryman and terrorists only were new in the arena. Now they are well settled and current establishment isnt able to calm these terrorists down. Do we actually have a conducive business atmosphere there?
Just like in the rain an empty glass is obvious to be filled unless u dont put the lid. Similarly, development in Pakistan will be a natural phenomenon only if people sees its importance more than anything else. Are people ready to put growth n development above everything else?

Bhai, the whole post of yours in up in the air like an abstract idea. I do not know if I should answer this.

I love Pakistan

Sure you do young one.

Welcome, but first introduce yourself here: Members Introduction

Find appropriate thread to post this photo.

Learn to respect the title of the thread. It is not about JF-17, but about China-Pakistan economic corridor.

 

[WAR-rior]

Bhai, the whole post of yours in up in the air like an abstract idea. I do not know if I should answer this.



Sure you do young one.

Welcome, but first introduce yourself here: Members Introduction

Find appropriate thread to post this photo.

Learn to respect the title of the thread. It is not about JF-17, but about China-Pakistan economic corridor.

Well Dude, Abstract surely coz I dont have any official numbers. But i hope u understand why I put these points. Cos thats exactly how Pakistan has been fairing past many years.

If I see Pakistan developing and executing its projects, I need some good logic behind it. If I ask myself, Why Pakistan hasnt grown till now? My answers revolve around terrorism, nonconducive atmosphere for Business, Lack of Investments, etc etc.

Now if we ask again, has the above mentioned things eradicated? The answer is everything is still there. Terrorism is not eradicated, Business sentiment is not sky hugh, Outside investments are nil.

U temme, Why shud anyone believe in Pakistani development given the current scenario. Suppose I am da investor. Give me a good reason.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Well Dude, Abstract surely coz I dont have any official numbers. But i hope u understand why I put these points. Cos thats exactly how Pakistan has been fairing past many years.

If I see Pakistan developing and executing its projects, I need some good logic behind it. If I ask myself, Why Pakistan hasnt grown till now? My answers revolve around terrorism, nonconducive atmosphere for Business, Lack of Investments, etc etc.

Now if we ask again, has the above mentioned things eradicated? The answer is everything is still there. Terrorism is not eradicated, Business sentiment is not sky hugh, Outside investments are nil.

U temme, Why shud anyone believe in Pakistani development given the current scenario. Suppose I am da investor. Give me a good reason.

Better than last time...

In any case, such discussions often end up hinging on future. Let us short cut intervening posts and get directly to that point. Much remains the same, yet much has changed. Mostly it is perspective. Wait to see what happens.

 

[VCheng]

i clearly said that thermal plants are not confirmed.
the only confirmed projects in thermal sector are two coal plants in bin qasim 660 each by private sector, 2000mw various project by asian bank and the 660 mw thar coal project funded via chinese commercial loans, sindh govt and engro.
rest thermal are only MoUs, we never know about them however going the huge profit margin of (ER OF 4yrs) it seems they will be built.
hydro worth 6000 +,NJ,tarblea extentions and dasu are confirmed. bhasha is unconfirmed
2 nuclear plant worth 1200mw each are also confirmed and work going on.
solar worth 100mw and wind worth 1500mw in private sector also confirmed and work going on.
the infrastructure projects can easily be handled via PSDP as it has been done in past.

pakistan spend 3-4 billion dollars in PSDP sector, energy usually gets around 1 billion dollars and infrastructure 1 billion dollars..thats how we funded NJ and nuclear plants in past..
so even if for some reason we dont increase PSDP even so expect 15-20 billion dollars investment by public PSDP
however most money will come via WB,asian bank(16-18 billion dollars) and chinese investment/loan(8-16billion dollars)

Exactly why I said there is much hope and hot air in the OP.

 

[dawn_news]

Another article with little more detail

Chinese investment to be ensured, come what may

Pakistan is likely to disregard PPRA rules to ensure $35 billion Chinese investment in energy sector projects within the next five years, well informed sources told Business Recorder. The source claimed this assurance has been given to Vice Administer of National Energy Administration (NEA) of China Zhang Yuning at a recent meeting of the first Energy Planning Working Group of China-Pakistan Economic Corridor held on April 15, 2014 in Islamabad.

The projects which will start commercial operation by December 2017 are as follows: (i) 2x660 coal based power projects at Port Qasim on Built-Own-Operate (BOO) under IPP policy - commercial operation; (ii) Jetty + infrastructure at Power Park Gaddani-BOO; (iii) 10 X 660 MW coal-based power projects at Gaddani; 2x 660 MW(MoU Power China), 2x660 MW (MoU ANC/China Datang Corporation); 4x660(MoU China Gezhuoba); 2x660 MW (MoU CMEC); (iv) two transmission lines from Gaddani (600 kV HVDC Gaddani to Lahore and 600 Kv HVDC Gaddani to Faisalabad; (v) 3.5 MT/A coal mining project Thar Block-II SEMEC; (vi) Sino Sindh Resources 6.5 MT/A mining and 2x660 MW coal power projects; (vii) 2x600 MW coal-based power projects at Sahiwal; (viii) 2x600 MW coal-based power projects at Sheikhupura; (ix) 2x330 MW Thar power coal plant SECMC; (x)Solar Power Park at Bahawalpur; (xi) 100 MW Solar PV Power Project and ;(xii) 2793 MW( three) hydropower projects ie 720 MW Karot Hydropower Project( advanced implementation), 873 MW Suki Kinari hydro Power Project( advanced implementation) and 1,100 MW Kohala Hydropower Project( advanced implementation).

Official sources told Business Recorder that $6 billion Chinese investment will be injected in months. Both sides have agreed that under the guidance of the Energy Planning Working Group, they will establish respective Energy Planning Expert Working Group (Expert Group) to take charge of the specific preparation work of energy planning and complete the energy planning report.

May 2014: The Chinese Expert Group will provide a planning work outline (draft) and formulate planning outlines after soliciting views of the Pakistani Expert Group.

JUNE 2014: It was agreed that the Expert Groups of both sides will meet in the first half of June 2014 in Beijing. The Chinese side will share its feedback of the review of projects during the Expert Group meeting and both sides will identify the possible fast track mode of implementation of the projects.

August 2014: China''s Expert Group will first provide the energy planning report on the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (2014-2020) (draft). The Pakistan Expert Group will provide the comments on the said report for incorporation within two weeks.

October 2014: Expert Groups from both sides will complete initial planning report (2014-2020). November 2014: EPWG from both sides will review the planning report and then supplement and perfect the planning report according to review comments. December 2014: EPWG from both sides will submit it to their respective authorities for approval.

Chinese investment to be ensured, come what may | Business Recorder

 

[Viper0011.]

Much hope and hot air here. Little will be actually achieved.

Actually if you read my posts on Pakistan and its Economy, I've been saying it for the past two years that activities will be taking place worth around 100 - 150 billion dollars till 2018. All of these are contingent upon strict measures and results. Not how the money used to be sent to the previous governments and then it'll go to people's personal accounts overseas.
If the current list of projects that I've seen in a WB briefing go through by 2018, certain Pakistani sector would've caught up with the gap that existed over the past two decades due to lack or 0 development activity, the way it needed to happen. This changes will happen in the energy sector, infrastructure, transportation, oil and gas and mineral research, etc.
The current government is pretty serious about making a change from an economic standpoint. I think the credit should be given where it deserves. These guys have already finished world class public welfare projects in record time with international audits. The international accountability is what's sparked interest in investors' minds again about Pakistan as there is virtually no corruption that has happened recently with Motorway, MetroBus, Solar Park work, a couple of Energy related projects that are near completion this year.
In the history of Pakistan, in seven decades or so I think? It has produced LESS than 15000 Megawatts of electricity with a demand shortfall of 3 to 5K Megawatt. Now the current government has plans to fill that gap, generate 5000 Megawatts more initially and within the next 9 years, generate 21000 Megawatts more for future growth. That's essentially 2 times more energy being produced within 8 years or so than the past 70 years.........and then there are other decade long projects for Infrastructure and Logistics with China that will shape up a better Pakistan. On the other hand, the US and the West is helping with Education, Sanitation, additional Infrastructure, Energy , etc, etc.......so all this will create dozens of millions of new jobs.... and people have complaints due to their personal agenda? Btw, I review all development markets for business strategy so I know what's going on in Pakistan vs. Mexico vs. Turkey, India, China, etc. So don't think I am friends with your government. You guys still need to solve the mother of all problems for your economy and country to grow. That's the issue of religious intolerance and talibanization. Without taking care of the security and religious intolerance related issues, it'll be difficult to expand and become a stronger economy.

 

[VCheng]

Actually if you red my posts on Pakistan and its Economy, I've been saying it for the past two years that there are activities going to take place worth around 100 - 150 billion dollars till 2018. All of these are contingent upon strict measures and results. Not how the money used to be sent to the previous governments and then it'll go to people's personal accounts overseas.
If the current list of projects that I've seen in a WB briefing go through by 2018, certain Pakistani sector would've caught up to some degree like the energy sector, infrastructure, transportation, oil and gas and mineral research, etc.
The current government is pretty serious about making a change from an economic standpoint. I think the credit should be given where it deserves. These guys have already finished world class public welfare projects in record time with international audits. The international accountability is what's sparked interest in investors' minds again about Pakistan as there is virtually no corruption that has happened recently with Motorway, MetroBus, Solar Park work, a couple of Energy related projects that are near completion this year.
In the history of Pakistan, in seven decades or so I think? It has produced LESS than 15000 Megawatts of electricity with a demand shortfall of 3 to 5K Megawatt. Now the current government has plans to fill that gap, generate 5000 Megawatts more initially and within the next 9 years, generate 21000 Megawatts more for future growth. That's essentially 2 times more energy being produced within 8 years or so than the past 70 years.........and then there are other decade long projects for Infrastructure and Logistics with China that will shape up a better Pakistan. On the other hand, the US and the West is helping with Education, Sanitation, additional Infrastructure, Energy , etc, etc.......so all this will create dozens of millions of new jobs.... and people have complaints due to their personal agenda? Btw, I review all development markets for business strategy so I know what's going on in Pakistan vs. Mexico vs. Turkey, India, China, etc. So don't think I am friends with your government. You guys still need to solve the mother of all problems for your economy and country to grow. That's the issue of religious intolerance and talibanization. Without taking care of the security and religious intolerance, etc issues, it'll be difficult to expand and becomes a stronger economy.

Okay, this government has put all this "planning" into motion in its first year. Let's see what it is able to deliver actually in the next four. 100-150 billion till 2018 averages out to about 25-30 billion a year, or about 2 billion a month. Tall order, to say the least.

 

[dawn_news]

So who is financing all these projects? Where is the money?

Where is the famed railway line and oil pipeline all the way to China in this list?

China is financing it.

 

[ziaulislam]

Exactly why I said there is much hope and hot air in the OP.

actually i give up," if you say so"
even a blind man can see that most funding 40% (16+ bilion dollars) is coming from WB, asian bank not china..and WB talks are rarely "hot air "
the other half in infrastructure is coming from PSDP,private investment and Chinese loans.
there is only one explanation if you cal this"hot air" either world bank president is drunk who announced program for pakistan or you are?
i am pretty sure even if they are completed you will claim they dont exist and no matter what we say there will be no way to convince you

 

[dawn_news]

i clearly said that thermal plants are not confirmed.
the only confirmed projects in thermal sector are two coal plants in bin qasim 660 each by private sector, 2000mw various project by asian bank and the 660 mw thar coal project funded via chinese commercial loans, sindh govt and engro.
rest thermal are only MoUs, we never know about them however going the huge profit margin of (ER OF 4yrs) it seems they will be built.
hydro worth 6000 +,NJ,tarblea extentions and dasu are confirmed. bhasha is unconfirmed
2 nuclear plant worth 1200mw each are also confirmed and work going on.
solar worth 100mw and wind worth 1500mw in private sector also confirmed and work going on.
the infrastructure projects can easily be handled via PSDP as it has been done in past.

pakistan spend 3-4 billion dollars in PSDP sector, energy usually gets around 1 billion dollars and infrastructure 1 billion dollars..thats how we funded NJ and nuclear plants in past..
so even if for some reason we dont increase PSDP even so expect 15-20 billion dollars investment by public PSDP
however most money will come via WB,asian bank(16-18 billion dollars) and chinese investment/loan(8-16billion dollars)

$12 billion from WB does not include Dasu. WB is yet to approve loan for Dasu dam.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Another article with little more detail

Chinese investment to be ensured, come what may

Pakistan is likely to disregard PPRA rules to ensure $35 billion Chinese investment in energy sector projects within the next five years, well informed sources told Business Recorder. The source claimed this assurance has been given to Vice Administer of National Energy Administration (NEA) of China Zhang Yuning at a recent meeting of the first Energy Planning Working Group of China-Pakistan Economic Corridor held on April 15, 2014 in Islamabad.
The projects which will start commercial operation by December 2017 are as follows: (i) 2x660 coal based power projects at Port Qasim on Built-Own-Operate (BOO) under IPP policy - commercial operation; (ii) Jetty + infrastructure at Power Park Gaddani-BOO; (iii) 10 X 660 MW coal-based power projects at Gaddani; 2x 660 MW(MoU Power China), 2x660 MW (MoU ANC/China Datang Corporation); 4x660(MoU China Gezhuoba); 2x660 MW (MoU CMEC); (iv) two transmission lines from Gaddani (600 kV HVDC Gaddani to Lahore and 600 Kv HVDC Gaddani to Faisalabad; (v) 3.5 MT/A coal mining project Thar Block-II SEMEC; (vi) Sino Sindh Resources 6.5 MT/A mining and 2x660 MW coal power projects; (vii) 2x600 MW coal-based power projects at Sahiwal; (viii) 2x600 MW coal-based power projects at Sheikhupura; (ix) 2x330 MW Thar power coal plant SECMC; (x)Solar Power Park at Bahawalpur; (xi) 100 MW Solar PV Power Project and ;(xii) 2793 MW( three) hydropower projects ie 720 MW Karot Hydropower Project( advanced implementation), 873 MW Suki Kinari hydro Power Project( advanced implementation) and 1,100 MW Kohala Hydropower Project( advanced implementation).

Official sources told Business Recorder that $6 billion Chinese investment will be injected in months. Both sides have agreed that under the guidance of the Energy Planning Working Group, they will establish respective Energy Planning Expert Working Group (Expert Group) to take charge of the specific preparation work of energy planning and complete the energy planning report.

May 2014: The Chinese Expert Group will provide a planning work outline (draft) and formulate planning outlines after soliciting views of the Pakistani Expert Group.

JUNE 2014: It was agreed that the Expert Groups of both sides will meet in the first half of June 2014 in Beijing. The Chinese side will share its feedback of the review of projects during the Expert Group meeting and both sides will identify the possible fast track mode of implementation of the projects.

August 2014: China''s Expert Group will first provide the energy planning report on the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (2014-2020) (draft). The Pakistan Expert Group will provide the comments on the said report for incorporation within two weeks.

October 2014: Expert Groups from both sides will complete initial planning report (2014-2020). November 2014: EPWG from both sides will review the planning report and then supplement and perfect the planning report according to review comments. December 2014: EPWG from both sides will submit it to their respective authorities for approval.

Chinese investment to be ensured, come what may | Business Recorder

The important thing is to find a way to benefit from foreign investment, like what China did during the 1980's.

And it is very important to build strong domestic companies that can compete and win in their home markets. In every major Chinese sector, domestic firms are dominant. Instead of Google, we have Baidu. Instead of Dell we have Lenovo.

Yes Google and Dell exist in China (and have millions of customers), but the majority of the market share goes to local companies.

It's important that Pakistan is able to do this. Chinese investment is great, but what Pakistan really should be doing is using this investment in order to strengthen their own domestic economy by every means possible.

 

[VCheng]

actually i give up," if you say so"
even a blind man can see that most funding 40% (16+ bilion dollars) is coming from WB, asian bank not china..and WB talks are rarely "hot air "
the other half in infrastructure is coming from PSDP,private investment and Chinese loans.
there is only one explanation if you cal this"hot air" either world bank president is drunk who announced program for pakistan or you are?
i am pretty sure even if they are completed you will claim they dont exist and no matter what we say there will be no way to convince you

40% is "most" of the funding? In my blind man's math book, 40% is a minority, and even these are only proposals, a.k.a "hot air" until realized.

 

[Viper0011.]

Okay, this government has put all this "planning" into motion in its first year. Let's see what it is able to deliver actually in the next four. 100-150 billion till 2018 averages out to about 25-30 billion a year, or about 2 billion a month. Tall order, to say the least.

Yea.....but you are just speaking without realizing what you are saying. Someone gave billions for results and the results have started to show up. The stock market has doubled in the past 16 months, just as an example....if you don't comprehend how the economies and growth works.....may not want to keep questioning and sounding pessimistic at the least? Let the results show over time and see the results already in place......

 

[ziaulislam]

projects of power sector by 2020
1. hydro 10,000 mw.
4k in private sector( upper and lower palas, suki kinari, kohla etc), 2200 dasu,3000 tarbela ext,1 k NJ
2. thermal by 2020 via coal
depends on lot of factor 5k confirmed; 6k unconfirmed MoUs
3.solar
100mw confirmed 900mw MoUs
4.wind
1200 confirmed
1800mw MoUs
5. bagas (sugar cane)
3000 MoUs
6. gas
600mw confirmed work in final stages
total=confirmed=17000mw
unconfirmed =6,000mw
theses are projects i know off

40% is "most" of the funding? In my blind man's math book, 40% is a minority, and even these are only proposals, a.k.a "hot air" until realized.

very well sir you are right.

$12 billion from WB does not include Dasu. WB is yet to approve loan for Dasu dam.

approval is on 29 may. if approved it will be from 12 billion loan WB is proposing, i dont think so its separate