Daneshmand
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The answer to the question as regards the Pakistan villager and Taxila is no..The blunt answer is not only a no but even the educated have little interest. The reasons are complex and beyond the remit of this thread. The majority have a precarious identity revolving around Islam. It is one dimensional and lacks any grounding. However my question did not relate to the question of identity, folklore, myth and other abstract concepts.
My question related more to the business side of things. The sanction regime had created a distorted matrix within which Iran operated. Looking forward to non sanction regime I wondered who was going to gain or lose. This thread was triggered by what I was reading in another thread about Iran considering buying Chinese fighters.
Frankly it was a stupid question. Instead of asking this question I should have just done some reading on the subject. I know Iranian's are too savvy to bust he Indian ego so I am not least surprised by the answers I have recieved. They all are complex, diplomatic and don't even go anyhere near answering the question.
For example when Iran decides to buy fighters I doubt if past Persian history or what the Ianian grandmothers told is going into informing the decision making. Decision will be based on merits of the case. That is why I say I this question I asked was stupid and lazy of me. Most of the relevant info is available anyway.
I guess I had been fooled by the daily tripe the Indian's give about Iran/India. When I checked the trade flows India is just a tiny footnote on the Iranian economic profile. I seriously was surprised. I thought the Indian's have a huge involvement in Iran. The figures say otherwise. China is far ahead of India so I already know where this is going.
With due respect I never said "Pakistan has ever sold itself". I said quite the contrary. Please read my post again. Perhaps I failed to convey what I wanted in a poor manner. Indian's often accuse us of having sold ourselves. Pakistan did like other countries of the world to achieve it's goals. Pakistan milked America. Pakistan while recieving aid money right under their noses built nuclear weapons. To achieve our goals you give little and take little. We played USA like big teddy bear and got what we wanted. Hell even now while USA is in Afghanistan they pay us while we support Taliban.
My friend I love Iranian culture, language. I do so because of the massive impact it has had on Pakistan. My ethnic language belongs to the East Iranic group. Persian was dominant in what is Pakistan as late as 1850. You already know thatduring times of Archaemenid Persian the region that is Pakistan was composed of Persian satrapies. All this I respect. All this is the reason why I give Iranians more time than many other members in this forum. I also know that Iran is our neighbour and in the long run we are going to have to resolve our issues.
Now with this qualification out of way let me tell you in in no uncertain terms I entirely disagree with you there. In fact no offence what you write here is absurd orchestra where non of tunes match. The region that is now Pakistan did morte fighting against the British invaders than all of South Asia. The Pashtuns on the frontier were never subdued. The Sindhi's fought bravely. The reality is economic power is military power. Military power will if applied in sufficient dosage defeat anybody. Go ask the Germans.
In fact why not you remind yourself of the Anglo-Russian invasion in 1943 of Iran. Please do tell me how long it took for Iran to be subdued. Also please do tell me which Battle of Stalingrad the Iranians fought against Russian/British invaders. Don't forget both those countries had most their forces fighting Nazi Germany. In fact the so called British force was mostly Indian yet they drove through Iran like a stroll in the park.
Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Allies then stayed in Iran for next 3 years. I might add here even after the British left Iran in 1947 in effect Iran was de facto British colony and only independent de jure. The way the Anglo-Saxon powers ( USA/UK ) treated Iran was nothing more than a fiefdom where they got to extract the oil under preferantial conditions and changed Iranian government with the ease I change my underpants. I am sure your aware of Dr Mossadegh.
Mohammad Mosaddegh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The treatment by British of so called independent Iran revealed the truth that Iran in fact was a vassel state. European empoyees were beyond Iran law and could do anything. Furthermore Iranians living in their own country were being treated as second class citizens. On top of this more of the oil profit was going to Britan then Iran.
"Britain was receiving more from AIOC than Iran.[16] In addition, conditions for Iranian oil workers and their families were very bad. The director of Iran's Petroleum Institute wrote that
Wages were 50 cents a day. There was no vacation pay, no sick leave, no disability compensation. The workers lived in a shanty town called Kaghazabad, or Paper City, without running water or electricity, ... In winter the earth flooded and became a flat, perspiring lake. The mud in town was knee-deep, and ... when the rains subsided, clouds of nipping, small-winged flies rose from the stagnant water to fill the nostrils ....
Summer was worse. ... The heat was torrid ... sticky and unrelenting—while the wind and sandstorms shipped off the desert hot as a blower. The dwellings of Kaghazabad, cobbled from rusted oil drums hammered flat, turned into sweltering ovens. ... In every crevice hung the foul, sulfurous stench of burning oil .... in Kaghazad there was nothing—not a tea shop, not a bath, not a single tree. The tiled reflecting pool and shaded central square that were part of every Iranian town, ... were missing here. The unpaved alleyways were emporiums for rats.[17]
Anglo-Persian Oil Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Reza on his visit to the oil fields was struck by large numbers of British and Indian employees amounting to half the workforce of 29,000 and their ( Indian ) preferantial treatment and accomodation. He saw no signs of prosperity outside the company towns. The journalist Ali Dashti later claimed that Anglo Persian Oil Company treated Iranians as badly as East India company had treated Indians 200 years before"
Days of God; The Revolution in Iran and it's consequences by James Buchan.
Days of God: The Revolution in Iran and Its Consequences - James Buchan - Google Books
I need not go any father. If you doubt my contention that Iran was pseudo-sovereign state from early 20th century all the way to the Iranian Revolution in 1979. In fact the Iranian character of beong strongly resistant and suspicious of external countries is product of humliating of great people in pre 1979 Iran. This experiance still rimgs in the Iranian mentality today. In fact it to my mind also explains the dichotomy of a secular people being hostahe to a theocratic clergy. The clergy offer a vent against the West which feeds on the 20th century suffering at hands of imperial powers.
No. We suffer from post colonial syndrome you suffer from post neo-colonial syndrome. Same thing dressed in differant clothes.
I am big critic of the Pakistani state but please refer to earlier. Pakistan has never sold it's interest. It compromised to get what it wanted. Even Japan does that. Even Germany do that. We all do it.
I will tackle this some other time.
The only, repeat the only resources Pakistan has is (i) the people and (ii) the mighty River Indus. Nothing else. This copper you are on about is poor grade, in the most remote, most volatile region of Pakistan and right next to Afghan border thus making it very unattractive to investors. Even if it came on full steam we would only earn maybe $1 billion dollars max. It is cents, just cents in a country of 195 million people. This is typical bull that lot of ignorent Pakistani's start running around screaming and declaring headlines.
I give you one example. For some time they have been screming about Pak having the largest coal reserves in the world. Well this is rubbish. In my garden the soil is red. It has traces of hematite. Shall I declare I have masive iron resources in my garden? That coal in Pakistan is of such por quality - quality measured by amount of energy per unit that it is almost not even worth taking out of the ground. Which explains why it is still safe under the ground. Maybe as energy price goes up and technology improves some Chinese company might risk trying to invest dollar to make dollar and a two cents profit. This is the realiy.
I will address this later with a comparison of Iranian economy with Pakistan's. I will just posat facts and leave the reader to make conclusions.
May I ask who blamed India or chose USA??? I am somewhat confused about this. Please refer to previous paragraph.
I am. I try. The reality is Iran is Zero. Pakistan is Minus one . Afghanistan is Minus 10. Ditto for rest. Only the West or Far East has done well. The only Muslim country going anywhere is Turkey. The rest are just line of Zeros.
Please do not think the respect I have for Iran which flows from her great past. Cyrus, Darious, the Persian language and it's impact on Pakistan prevents me from seeing the reality as it is. I don't enjoy saying lot of things. Trust me I have been going softy softy because of my respect for Persia.
However I felt I could not allow some of your comments go unchallenged. We all have pride.
Ps. We are not your enemy. You are not our enemy. The sooner our people realize this the better. Outsiders came and did us all in. This is the reality. We need to learn this.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for the reply. I don't have time now and will reply later on.
Just a point here that a short occupation is different from colonization. Japan was occupied but was never colonized for instance.
