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China on track to develop Indian railways as Xi heads to S.Asia

third eye

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China on track to develop Indian railways as Xi heads to S.Asia| Reuters

(Reuters) - China will pledge to invest billions of dollars in India's rail network during a visit by President Xi Jinping this week, bringing more than diplomatic nicety to the neighbours' first summit since Narendra Modi became prime minister in May.

The leaders of Asia's three biggest economies - China, India and Japan - have crisscrossed the region this month, lobbying for strategic influence, building defence ties, and seeking new business opportunities.

Beijing's bid to ramp up commercial ties in India comes despite a territorial dispute that has flared anew in recent years, raising concerns in New Delhi, where memories of a humiliating border war defeat in 1962 run deep.

It follows a pledge by Japan to invest $35 billion in India over the next five years - including the introduction of bullet trains - and a drive to deepen security ties during talks earlier this month between Modi and Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in Tokyo.

India and China are expected to sign a pact that will open the way for Chinese participation in new rail tracks, automated signalling for faster trains and modern stations that India's British-built rail system desperately needs, having barely added 11,000 km of track in the 67 years since independence.

China, which added 14,000 km of track in the five years to 2011, is also pushing for a share of the lucrative high-speed train market in India, which it says would be cheaper than Japanese proposals.

"India has a strong, real desire to increase its cooperation with China and other countries to perfect and develop its rail system, and has concrete cooperation ideas," Assistant Chinese Foreign Minister Liu Jianchao told reporters ahead of Xi's trip.

"India is considering building high-speed railways, and China has a positive attitude towards this."

China's consul general in Mumbai, Liu Youfa, told the Times of India last week that Chinese investment in the modernisation of India's railways could eventually touch $50 billion.

Beijing is looking to invest another $50 billion in building India's ports, roads and a project to link rivers, part of an infrastructure push that Modi has said is his top priority to crank up economic growth.

Chinese investment will also help narrow a trade deficit with India that hit $31 billion in 2013.

From economic parity in 1980, China's growth has outstripped India's fourfold. Beijing is now seeking to recycle some of its vast export surpluses into foreign investment in resources and infrastructure in South Asia to feed its industrial machine.

DISTRUST
New Delhi's ties with Beijing have long been held back by distrust, mostly over their contested border. India has reported a rise in incursions by Chinese troops in recent years across a military control line, prompting a drive to beef up defences.

India also views Chinese military collaboration with its arch-rival, Pakistan, as a security threat.

Beijing, for its part, is concerned about the activities of Tibetans led by the Dalai Lama who fled to India following a failed uprising in 1959.

Xi kicks off his visit in Ahmedabad, the commercial capital of Modi's home state, Gujarat, on Wednesday when the nationalist Indian leader will be marking his 64th birthday.

Xi is set to launch one of two industrial parks focused on building power equipment in the booming state, which topped India's growth rates when Modi was its chief minister. China will set up another park in the neighbouring state of Maharashtra that will be mainly involved in the autos sector.

The informal setting of the first meeting between Xi and Modi is expected to bring a personal touch, much like the friendly get-together of the new Indian leader and Abe in Kyoto before their formal summit in Tokyo.

"We hope that during this visit the Chinese and Indian relationship of the last 50-60 years would see a directional change," India's Trade Minister Nirmala Sitharaman said.

For all that, Modi's bonhomie with Abe and his plans to meet U.S. President Barack Obama later this month point to a carefully balanced approach to relations with big powers.

"Modi is playing his cards very close to his chest, first by visiting Japan ahead of Xi coming to China, and also by planning a U.S. visit later this year," said a Beijing-based diplomat who follows the China-India relationship.

Before he arrives in India, Xi will visit the Maldives, the Indian ocean island which India has long considered its area of influence.

He will also travel to Sri Lanka, where China is building a port less than 200 km from India's southern coast, part of a drive to build ports across the Indian Ocean that some have dubbed a strategic "String of Pearls".

Earlier this month, Abe visited Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.
 
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I believe that China should get a fair share of high speed rail contacts. But said that we should give China a taste of its own medicine.

When China decided to build HSR, they asked Japs, Germans and French for trains, but conditions applied. Foreigners should not be the only one making money. They made it clear that China must gain something out of these contracts. They ended up absorbing all the technology and building entire HSR manufacturing chains in their own country.

India must follow this mode.
 
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India won't see the operation of a HRS before 2022 the earliest。

Even then the HSR will be built with Chinese technology、money and engineers running Chinese high-speed EMUs。

I bet India can't even make its own tunnel boring machines。:lol:

PS Two advanced new-generation bullet trains,made by CSR and CNR respectively,and to the New National Standard,will be unveiled at the of 2014 or early in 2015.

Watch out!:enjoy:
 
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India won't see the operation of a HRS before 2022 the earliest。

Even then the HSR will be built with Chinese technology、money and engineers running Chinese high-speed EMUs。

I bet India can't even make its own tunnel boring machines。:lol:

PS Two advanced new-generation bullet trains,made by CSR and CNR respectively,and to the New National Standard,will be unveiled at the of 2014 or early in 2015.

Watch out!:enjoy:

Should never underestimate.
 
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china has 12000+ km of HSR network very good

but it is loss making and in a debt trap

we dont want to do that
 
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china has 12000+ km of HSR network very good

but it is loss making and in a debt trap

we dont want to do that

Big infrastructure projects are often loss leaders but they come with plenty of positive externalities. That's why government usually steps in because they can and spend and borrow the amounts necessary, run at a loss and still recoup the benefits from elsewhere. The problem is that the Indian public sector is a lot more broke than the Chinese.
 
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Big infrastructure projects are often loss leaders but they come with plenty of positive externalities. That's why government usually steps in because they can and spend and borrow the amounts necessary, run at a loss and still recoup the benefits from elsewhere. The problem is that the Indian public sector is a lot more broke than the Chinese.

There are many other benefits like reducing pollution(if the electricity is generated by using renewable sources) and allowing fast links between different cities to allow easier movement of people.

Anyway as the spending power of the Chinese public rises, then ticket prices will rise and it may even be possible to one day break even with the cost of building the infrastructure and running costs
 
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china has 12000+ km of HSR network very good

but it is loss making and in a debt trap

we dont want to do that

Well Konkan railway was in red for over 10 years since its inauguration and later when good traffic picked up it began to make profit....but the change that this railway brought to the Konkan coastal area cannot be expressed in monetary terms as well the reduction of travel time b/n South India & Bombay.
 
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There are many other benefits like reducing pollution(if the electricity is generated by using renewable sources) and allowing fast links between different cities to allow easier movement of people.

Anyway as the spending power of the Chinese public rises, then ticket prices will rise and it may even be possible to one day break even with the cost of building the infrastructure and running costs


no i think what will happen is -

china has already built some 400+ airports

i dont know if it already exists - but if china allows low costs airlines and multiple of airlines

people will start preferring these and the HSR will shift in still deeper losses

at least the model i would prefer for india is

Build - Using BOOT model with pvt cos - 500-600 mini, medium, Large airports
issue licensces to atleast 30 airlines cos to operate on unlimited routed on these airports

atleast 20 od these should be low costs model airlines

Well Konkan railway was in red for over 10 years since its inauguration and later good traffic picked up it began to make profit....but the change that this railway brought to the Konkan coastal area cannot be expressed in monetary terms as the reduction of travel time b/n South India & Bombay.

The isse is not loss - when a new project comes up it is budgeted at loss for some years

the issue is viability

though konkan railway made a loss for 10 years it was always known to be viable

the Bullet trains are not viable in india
 
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Even then the HSR will be built with Chinese technology、money and engineers running Chinese high-speed EMUs。

Japs are already been consulted.So keep hoping..pal.
 
.
India won't see the operation of a HRS before 2022 the earliest。

Even then the HSR will be built with Chinese technology、money and engineers running Chinese high-speed EMUs。

I bet India can't even make its own tunnel boring machines。:lol:

PS Two advanced new-generation bullet trains,made by CSR and CNR respectively,and to the New National Standard,will be unveiled at the of 2014 or early in 2015.

Watch out!:enjoy:
Why do guys forget it every now and then that that's what west had tought about the chinese in the mid 1990's :enjoy:
as some one said, Never underestimate ,so :enjoy:
 
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I believe that China should get a fair share of high speed rail contacts. But said that we should give China a taste of its own medicine.

When China decided to build HSR, they asked Japs, Germans and French for trains, but conditions applied. Foreigners should not be the only one making money. They made it clear that China must gain something out of these contracts. They ended up absorbing all the technology and building entire HSR manufacturing chains in their own country.

India must follow this mode.

More than 10years ago when Japs, Germans and French came to china for the HSR contracts, they were guaranteed to be paid by cash immediately, no loan involved. And now it is india's turn, but Germans and French disappear, because they don't have the ability to provide the loan to your guys. India has to rely on foreign loan for those money-trap projects. In this world only China and Japan can provide this whole package including several tens of billions US$ loan. Actually today China's High speed train operation department accumulates more than 300 billion US$ debt owned by Chinese banks, and the whole HSR system in china is barely making any profit given chinese much higher buying power to afford the HSR ticket compared to India's case. I don't know how and when they can get the money back if they decide to work on india's HSR with their own loan. I don't think that is a wise investment for both China and Japan.
 
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More than 10years ago when Japs, Germans and French came to china for the HSR contracts, they were guaranteed to be paid by cash immediately, no loan involved. And now it is india's turn, but Germans and French disappear, because they don't have the ability to provide the loan to your guys. India has to rely on foreign loan for those money-trap projects. In this world only China and Japan can provide this whole package including several tens of billions US$ loan. Actually today China's High speed train operation department accumulates more than 300 billion US$ debt owned by Chinese banks, and the whole HSR system in china is barely making any profit given chinese much higher buying power to afford the HSR ticket compared to India's case. I don't know how and when they can get the money back if they decide to work on india's HSR with their own loan. I don't think that is a wise investment for both China and Japan.

my point exactly

that HSR

in China makes loss - in debt trap
In Japan - no profits
In france - no proifts
In germany - i dont know
in US - no HSR network - but has it hampered transportation ?

then in INDIA

we should stay away from HSR (bullet trains, TGV ) etc
 
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I believe that China should get a fair share of high speed rail contacts. But said that we should give China a taste of its own medicine.

When China decided to build HSR, they asked Japs, Germans and French for trains, but conditions applied. Foreigners should not be the only one making money. They made it clear that China must gain something out of these contracts. They ended up absorbing all the technology and building entire HSR manufacturing chains in their own country.

India must follow this mode.

Presently, India lacks the ability to absorb Chinese or Japanese technologies, even if the they hand over the blueprints and agree to full ToT.

However, under Modi-ji's brilliant leadership, India can very soon develop its own high-speed technologies and surpass the Japanese and Chinese bullet trains by 2020.
 
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