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China officially admitted "Red B2"!

The DF-21D is a chinese thing, but to your accusation, yea China copies US, so what?


Also, the satellite killer test is a kinetic kill which is also a world first. This manoeuvre is much more technically challenging, several levels more than what US or the Russians had performed.

Some will say "Nonsense. The Americans did this back in the 80′s. Sept 13, 85, specifically, one ASAT misslie launched from an F15, killed US satellite P78-1 in it’s 345 mile high orbit. The Russians did similar things."

Okay...
even if you have a sound technical background, you simply could not believe that it can be done. This test is a direct ascend followed by a kinetic kill approach i.e. once the orbiting satellite comes around and you have to fire the missile and hit the satellite dead on without explosive – hence called kinetic kill. Even now, I am still puzzling how did they do it.

I simply do not know how to explain this to a layman. The satellite is almost traveling at 7 miles a second and so is the missile and within a hitting of are of less than one meter square, that is almost impossible. If they can do this, all the other so called feats that followed are easy in relative terms. That is why if I compare this to hitting a bullet with a bullet is an understatement.

The Russians have done this satellite kill 20 years ago, but they did it with co-orbiting approaching. This is like kids play now.

The US have also demonstrated a satellite kill soon after the Chinese test just to get back at China. BUT ask them is their test “kinetic”. No explosive on the warhead, that is my question. China is laughing right now. Now the reaction is from the US. China initiate the action so we must follow through.
 
Many Congratulation's :china:

i think its about time that when even the Russians are underway and the U.S already ahead , you guys too should join the league. im delighted to hear of it :D :) .

the thing i like the most about the Chinese is their skill to copy stuff and make it better (if they mean it) :cheers:

the variety of products (every standard) you guys offer is what mesmerizes me :yahoo:
 
China's innovative Assassin's Mace Weaponry

China is different than the United States. It does not reveal its leading-edge weaponry to other countries. This preserves the element of surprise in a real war. "Surprise" is a fundamental tenet of Sun Tzu's military strategy.

Americans don't believe in surprise. They prefer to show you their F-22 stealth fighter and B-2 stealth bomber to enable China to study the designs in detail.

I leave it up to you to decide which country is smarter.

Sun Tzu Quotes (Author of The Art of War)

"Seem humble to fill them with conceit. If at ease, exhaust them. If united, separate them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.” ― Sun Tzu ..."

----------

Over the years, we've all heard about China's Assassin's Mace asymmetric weaponry. They are designed to neutralize America's superiority in conventional military power. Here is my guess for the list of Assassin's Mace Chinese weaponry.

1. 16.5 Megaton EMP warhead based on Chinese five-megaton thermonuclear warhead intentionally altered to emit gamma rays. A megaton-class EMP will fuse all of the electrical wiring and electronics of any equipment not protected under a mountain.

2. ASBM will be used for a limited attack on a specific naval capital ship.

3. Conventional-powered EMP may provide a more targeted capability against a small area (e.g. naval carrier group).

4. Shenlong space plane to drop a megaton-class EMP anywhere in the world on short notice. The EMP will blind all above-ground radar stations, fuse communication equipment, and knock-out unprotected enemy aircraft.

5. Stealth cruise missile. This is an obvious and simpler weapon based on the stealth technology from the manned stealth fighter program.

6. Supersonic stealth UCAV. A subsonic stealth UCAV has limited capability. Flying slowly leaves it vulnerable to detection and shootdown by a supercruising manned stealth fighter. Therefore, it is reasonable for China to work on a supercruising unmanned stealth fighter. It will shock your opponent and allow the unmanned stealth fighter to pull some incredible Gs.

7. Thermonuclear-armed torpedo. This is an obvious extension of China's vast array of thermonuclear weaponry. Instead of worrying about the exact location of an enemy sub and its countermeasures (e.g. decoys), a Chinese sub commander only needs to know the approximate location of an enemy and blow it to hell with a thermonuclear-armed torpedo or mine.

8. Hypersonic missile. The CM-400AKG air-to-ground missile has a terminal speed in excess of Mach 4. China will keep pushing its technology and their missiles should keep increasing in speed into the hypersonic range.
 
Also, the satellite killer test is a kinetic kill which is also a world first. This manoeuvre is much more technically challenging, several levels more than what US or the Russians had performed.

Some will say "Nonsense. The Americans did this back in the 80′s. Sept 13, 85, specifically, one ASAT misslie launched from an F15, killed US satellite P78-1 in it’s 345 mile high orbit. The Russians did similar things."

Okay...
even if you have a sound technical background, you simply could not believe that it can be done. This test is a direct ascend followed by a kinetic kill approach i.e. once the orbiting satellite comes around and you have to fire the missile and hit the satellite dead on without explosive – hence called kinetic kill. Even now, I am still puzzling how did they do it.

I simply do not know how to explain this to a layman. The satellite is almost traveling at 7 miles a second and so is the missile and within a hitting of are of less than one meter square, that is almost impossible. If they can do this, all the other so called feats that followed are easy in relative terms. That is why if I compare this to hitting a bullet with a bullet is an understatement.

The Russians have done this satellite kill 20 years ago, but they did it with co-orbiting approaching. This is like kids play now.

The US have also demonstrated a satellite kill soon after the Chinese test just to get back at China. BUT ask them is their test “kinetic”. No explosive on the warhead, that is my question. China is laughing right now. Now the reaction is from the US. China initiate the action so we must follow through.


Hitting a bullet with a bullet :lol: Do you know the meaning of the word orbit?
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/OrbitsCatalog/page2.php
 
Also, the satellite killer test is a kinetic kill which is also a world first. This manoeuvre is much more technically challenging, several levels more than what US or the Russians had performed.

Some will say "Nonsense. The Americans did this back in the 80′s. Sept 13, 85, specifically, one ASAT misslie launched from an F15, killed US satellite P78-1 in it’s 345 mile high orbit. The Russians did similar things."

Okay...
even if you have a sound technical background, you simply could not believe that it can be done. This test is a direct ascend followed by a kinetic kill approach i.e. once the orbiting satellite comes around and you have to fire the missile and hit the satellite dead on without explosive – hence called kinetic kill. Even now, I am still puzzling how did they do it.

I simply do not know how to explain this to a layman. The satellite is almost traveling at 7 miles a second and so is the missile and within a hitting of are of less than one meter square, that is almost impossible. If they can do this, all the other so called feats that followed are easy in relative terms. That is why if I compare this to hitting a bullet with a bullet is an understatement.

The Russians have done this satellite kill 20 years ago, but they did it with co-orbiting approaching. This is like kids play now.

The US have also demonstrated a satellite kill soon after the Chinese test just to get back at China. BUT ask them is their test “kinetic”. No explosive on the warhead, that is my question. China is laughing right now. Now the reaction is from the US. China initiate the action so we must follow through.

Took you half a page to explain how you don't know nothing. Let me illuminate you:

170383f.jpg
 
It's never about copy but using a basic physic concept of RCS reduction. US copy the Nazi WWII stealth bomber concept. Becos this shaping is proven to be the most effective way reducing RCS while still maintain certain flight profile.

I shown you the picture to see who copy who first.

Nazi Stealth bomber in WWII
germany-stealth-bomber.jpg


American B-2 bomber
300px-B-2_Spirit_original.jpg


If China red B-2 end up like the shaping of Nazi Bomber or American B-2 is nothing surprised and its never about copy. Its using a best shaping concept. You can make a very original bomber design shaping that is totally different from B-2 or Nazi stealth bomber but retains a huge RCS. Then what is the point? Are we entering a beauty contest or fighting a war? Tell me?

I believe that was the flying wing design which was supposed to generate additional lift. Americans also were experimenting with the same. There was no real concept of stealth during WW2.
 
I believe that was the flying wing design which was supposed to generate additional lift. Americans also were experimenting with the same. There was no real concept of stealth during WW2.

i believe this what ur talking about

the wing design : YB-49

northtop-yb-49.jpg


YB-49_titel.jpg


YB49-7_300.jpg


apparently the problem was it had rudders !!!! :undecided: (thats what i came across in different documentaries)
 
will that be a flyin wing design??or conventional like Pak-Da??just asking as name of the thread saying "Red B2"..

will that be a flying wing design??or conventional like Pak-Da??just asking as name of the thread saying "Red B2"..
 
Also, the satellite killer test is a kinetic kill which is also a world first. This manoeuvre is much more technically challenging, several levels more than what US or the Russians had performed.

Some will say "Nonsense. The Americans did this back in the 80′s. Sept 13, 85, specifically, one ASAT misslie launched from an F15, killed US satellite P78-1 in it’s 345 mile high orbit. The Russians did similar things."

Okay...
even if you have a sound technical background, you simply could not believe that it can be done. This test is a direct ascend followed by a kinetic kill approach i.e. once the orbiting satellite comes around and you have to fire the missile and hit the satellite dead on without explosive – hence called kinetic kill. Even now, I am still puzzling how did they do it.

I simply do not know how to explain this to a layman. The satellite is almost traveling at 7 miles a second and so is the missile and within a hitting of are of less than one meter square, that is almost impossible. If they can do this, all the other so called feats that followed are easy in relative terms. That is why if I compare this to hitting a bullet with a bullet is an understatement.

The Russians have done this satellite kill 20 years ago, but they did it with co-orbiting approaching. This is like kids play now.

The US have also demonstrated a satellite kill soon after the Chinese test just to get back at China. BUT ask them is their test “kinetic”. No explosive on the warhead, that is my question. China is laughing right now. Now the reaction is from the US. China initiate the action so we must follow through.
You do not know how probably because you do not have the relevant technical experience.

The American members here, few as we are, have US Army, US Air Force, and US Navy military experience. No US Marines, yet. My background is nearly 19 yrs in avionics, in and out of the military, first is flight controls, second is radar. Whatever the Chinese members here know and learned of military related technology, they learned from the Americans here. Not from their own backgrounds. People here know full well how much I debunked Chinese claims that defied the laws of physics. So let us get that out of the way.

If I put a brick directly in front of an approaching car, it would not matter if the brick is stationary or moving. The moment both bodies collide, that is technically a 'kinetic kill'. What make any head on collision solution problematic is when both bodies are moving and this is from a purely sensor issue. The Americans here know of a uniquely American spectator past time called 'demolition derby' where drivers deliberately hit each other to see who is the last car to survive. Collision solutions are automatically computed by each driver, from all aspect angles, and the humans does it without being conscious of it. The human 'computer' received sensor inputs, visual and auditory, feedback from his vehicle, and subconsciously calculate the best approach angle for each collision. Each collision is a 'kinetic' hit.

What make the head on kinetic kill problematic is not so much calculating the interception solution, and yes a head on collision is technically an interception, but the fact that if there is a miss, there is no chance for the interceptor to reacquire. Whereas if the collision solution is from a tail chase or even lateral, there is a chance for the interceptor to maneuver to reacquire the target. That is why the co-orbital approach is virtually a guaranteed kill because in essence the target is constantly in the interceptor's view.

So what this mean is that the sensor/guidance package must be capable of providing a 'no-miss' solution involving sophisticated sensors such as radar (active) and infrared (passive), sophisticated flight control laws, and equally sophisticated steerage mechanisms.

Regarding flight controls laws...Just in case you think I am making this stuff up...

Proportional navigation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Proportional navigation (also known as PN or Pro-Nav) is a guidance law (analogous to proportional control) used in some form or another by most homing air target missiles.
Other laws, simple and complex, are 'pure pursuit', 'command guidance', 'lead pursuit', or 'lead collision'. Hybrid laws are inevitable and applicable to specific interception schemes. For the American infrared Sidewinder missile, its guidance law is simple: pure pursuit. Pretty much every IR-guided missile that relies on engine exhaust as a target is that simple.

Am willing to bet yuan to rice cakes that this is the first time you have heard of such a thing as 'flight control laws'.

So what are we to make of this solution, as in what kind of flight control laws were used...???

Project Nike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For Nike, three radars were used. The acquisition radar searched for a target to be handed over to the Target Tracking Radar (TTR) for tracking. The Missile Tracking Radar (MTR) tracked the missile by way of a transponder, as the missile's radar signature alone was not sufficient. The MTR also commanded the missile by way of pulse-position modulation, the pulses were received, decoded and then amplified back for the MTR to track. Once the tracking radars were locked the system was able to work automatically following launch, barring any unexpected occurrences. The computer compared the two radars' directions, along with information on the speeds and distances, to calculate the intercept point and steer the missile.
This is pure command guidance. One radar (TTR) tracks the target, which in this case would be a descending ballistic warhead. Another radar (MTR) tracks the interceptor missile. A ground control computer calculate the intercept point based upon the returns of both bodies and sends the appropriate course deviations to the interceptor.

The problem with a pure command guidance solution is that the entire scheme require the attention of a third party where signals are circuitous and vulnerable to contamination, from internal hardware to external environmental variables such as weather. Nevertheless, the American Nike/Zeus program was approaching its goal of providing a 'no-miss' solution when the SALT 1 Treaty assured its cancellation.

So what we are using today is to empower the interceptor its own sensor/guidance package sophisticated enough to use the appropriate flight control laws to calculate its own 'no-miss' solution. Proportional Navigation so the interceptor with its own sensor can calculate the target's path, then Pure Collision so the interceptor can position itself directly in line with the target in its path.

Just like if I had placed a brick in the car's path.

If the target maneuvers for whatever reasons, the entire scheme reset and starts all over.

The more precise the interceptor knows of its spatial location, the better it will be able to calculate its collision solution, so any kind of positional knowledge is necessary, such as GPS assisted INS. If the target maneuvers while both bodies are approaching each other, the interceptor must have highly responsive maneuvering mechanisms to re-position and re-orient itself so it will be able to reset the entire interception scheme.

We have that capability here...

Missile defense multiple kill vehicle hover test - YouTube

You can see a main rocket thruster to keep the body 'afloat' against gravity, and assorted smaller attitude adjustment thrusters to maneuver the body. Now couple this with a sophisticated enough sensor package, and we can definitely provide a 'no-miss' collision solution.

If this 'brick' collide with the missile before it is able to deploy its warhead(s), the missile is destroyed. We do not need to have it completely destroyed as some tried to argue. If the missile's main body is tumbling, any release of any smaller bodies will result in those smaller bodies in incorrect paths, rendering them useless anyway even if they survive re-entry.

Am not saying it is technically easy but it is unwise for China to believe that China have the upper hand in this. If anything, based on what I know and from my experience, I will say that we have the upper hand.

So do not think that just because you can pretentiously say that you do not know how to explain this to the layman, it means you know what you are talking about.
 
It's never about copy but using a basic physic concept of RCS reduction. US copy the Nazi WWII stealth bomber concept. Becos this shaping is proven to be the most effective way reducing RCS while still maintain certain flight profile.

I shown you the picture to see who copy who first.

Nazi Stealth bomber in WWII
germany-stealth-bomber.jpg


American B-2 bomber
300px-B-2_Spirit_original.jpg


If China red B-2 end up like the shaping of Nazi Bomber or American B-2 is nothing surprised and its never about copy. Its using a best shaping concept. You can make a very original bomber design shaping that is totally different from B-2 or Nazi stealth bomber but retains a huge RCS. Then what is the point? Are we entering a beauty contest or fighting a war? Tell me?
The Horton 229 was never designed with 'stealth' in mind, even though the German designers knew of radar and WISHES to avoid it.

The 229's design was primarily for long range because Hitler wanted the ability to strike at the US from Continental Europe bases. That long range was not possible for US because we stationed B-17s and B-29s from England and CE bases to strike at Germany.
 
^^ Only in some rare occasions gambit talked some sense. This is undoubtly one of those occasions, thanks to ferocious daily pumping execises needless to say :rofl:


The Germans didn't have a clue on RCS at a time :rofl:

The Horton 229 inspiration was simplely mimicing the natural shape of a bird combined with a full wing load of bombs.
 
I believe that was the flying wing design which was supposed to generate additional lift. Americans also were experimenting with the same. There was no real concept of stealth during WW2.

Horten Ho 229 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After the war, Reimar Horten said he mixed charcoal dust in with the wood glue to absorb electromagnetic waves (radar), which he believed could shield the aircraft from detection by British early warning ground-based radar that operated at 20 to 30 MHz, known as Chain Home.[6] A jet-powered flying wing design such as the Horten Ho 229 will have a smaller radar cross-section than conventional contemporary twin-engine aircraft. This is because the wings blended into the fuselage and there were no large propeller disks or vertical and horizontal tail surfaces to provide a typical identifiable radar signature.[3][4]
Engineers of the Northrop-Grumman Corporation had long been interested in the Ho 229, and several of them visited the Smithsonian Museum's facility in Silver Hill, Maryland in the early 1980s to study the V3 airframe. A team of engineers from Northrop-Grumman ran electromagnetic tests on the V3's multilayer wooden center-section nose cones. The cones are three quarters of an inch (19 mm) thick and made up of thin sheets of veneer. The team concluded that there was indeed some form of conducting element in the glue, as the radar signal attenuated considerably as it passed through the cone.[3]

RCS testing showed that a hypothetical Ho 229 approaching the English coast from France flying at 885 kilometres per hour (550 mph) at 15–30 metres (49–98 ft) above the water would have been visible at a distance of 80% that of a Bf 109. This implies a frontal RCS of only 40% that of a Bf 109 at the Chain Home frequencies. The most visible parts of the aircraft were the jet inlets and the cockpit, but caused no return through smaller dimensions than the CH wavelength. Given the high-speed capabilities of the aircraft it would have given the British defences just two and a half minutes to respond, which would not have been enough time. It is believed that, if deployed in great numbers, the Ho 229 could have changed the course of the war.
 
^^ Only in some rare occasions gambit talked some sense. This is undoubtly one of those occasions, thanks to ferocious daily pumping execises needless to say :rofl:
More like all the time. You guys just do not like the fact that someone have experience where you do not.

The Germans didn't have a clue on RCS at a time :rofl:
Did I say that?

Here is why you repeatedly failed logical thinking: The Germans knew about RCS but they did not have the knowledge on HOW TO CONTROL THE RADIATING STRUCTURES AND MECHANISMS THAT CREATED THE CONCEPT OF RADAR CROSS SECTION.

Lockheed was in the same boat when they created the SR-71.

sr-71_radar_range_test.jpg

f-35_rcs_range.jpg


Now just in case you are unclear...

Top is the SR-71 in an open range radar testing.

Bottom is an F-35 also in an open range radar testing.

Both are upside down.

There is a 30 yr gap between the two.

But the difference is that the F-35 have precisely calculated RCS control measures into its design while the SR-71 did not have even Ufimtsev's work. But Lockheed did a bang-up job with the SR-71 nonetheless.

:lol:
 
But the difference is that the F-35 have precisely calculated RCS control measures into its design while the SR-71 did not have even Ufimtsev's work. But Lockheed did a bang-up job with the SR-71 nonetheless.
:

Hey gambit.

Are all these lumps and bumps on the F-35 part of the precisely calculated RCS control measures?:lol:

zTPfiwf.jpg


sCzbi04.jpg


zbHqsTn.jpg
 
Hey gambit.

Are all these lumps and bumps on the F-35 part of the precisely calculated RCS control measures?:lol:
Believe it or not: Yes, they are.

Another failure from the Chinese members on critical thinking.

Control does not mean the result will be the best. It mean the best POSSIBLE WHEN COMPROMISES ARE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION.

An aircraft is a finite body and an exercise in compromises regarding multiple requirements.

For example, if we go by your 12yr old mentality, neither the F-35 nor the J-20 should have vertical stabilators at all because those are radiating structures with behaviors shown by your illustrations. But since their designs require such structures, those structures are angled in a way to avoid the critical 90 deg corner reflectors.

Is that too difficult to understand? Probably. But I do not say so to educate you. You are beyond hope. I say these things so interested readers can see what we have to put up with from the Chinese members here.

:lol:
 
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