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China:New phone users must now have their faces scanned and photos stored by state

I think you are just clueless how other countries works and blinded by your biases against China. A police can stop you on the street for ID check, stop your vehicle for many checks other than DUI, and they check their database with all your information without warrant(this shows that the governments already have databases of all of your information already, including picture ID). Thus the mere fact that China introduce new phone policy plus photo ID is nothing special as many countries already have government cards with photo ID in their system.

If you have time you can go read up on Patriot Act and maybe you can learn something.

Come on man, either you have not lived in Canada or in a democracy for long enough to make those egregious statements and assumptions, or you are making things up to suit your pro-China bias. Did you sponsor your Canadain citizenship recently?

A cop in the US and I suspect similarly in Canada, can't just stop you and ask for ID without a reasonable suspicion he/she establishes officially. Unfortunate of you to malign Canadain and democratic laws this way.

American citizens know their rights.




 
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One would expect a Chinese citizen (hopefully lived long in Canada) to understand the difference between state/government-mandated facial identification required, stored, and accessed with no warrants on any citizen versus ID requirement to purchase specific items or travel. AND the difference between showing ID and having a government keep a repository of facial identification to be used without checks and balances.

again, police can do ID check on your without any warrants. and you know where these info are stored? in a government repository, which have many of your personal info including photos.


lastly, may I ask if the Chinese have similar requirements like the western world as you've listed above, then why do they need to mandate access to facial recognition on cell phones? They have all the IDs at the point of purchase- why ask for this facial pics on a cell phone?

It is an addition process, procedure or feature uses by countries to increase/protect security of its citizens. Like, for example, you get face scan or finger printed at airports at USA. or like when you buy and use SimCard in Australia you need to provide personal info and photo taken too.


I only watched the first one. The policewoman gave weak excuse "indignity to a Police Officer." She could made up of many other false reasons. Still, the drive gave her his driver license. If fact, she didn't even need his driver license to check out his personal info. She could just enter his license plate and she have access to all this person info that way, including his photo; not warrants needed at all.


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In many countries, like germany, russia, australia, canada, etc, you need to provide personal information/PhotoID to purchase/register SimCard and PhonePlans. And all those information are linked to you and can be accessed police officers and other government agencies(like CIA, FBI..etc).
 
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again, police can do ID check on your without any warrants. and you know where these info are stored? in a government repository, which have many of your personal info including photos.




It is an addition process, procedure or feature uses by countries to increase/protect security of its citizens. Like, for example, you get face scan or finger printed at airports at USA. or like when you buy and use SimCard in Australia you need to provide personal info and photo taken too.


On both occasions, you have chosen to go with blatant falsehoods to malign Canada and the US for the sake of China.

Tom, Now I notice you have nuanced your language and pulled back a bit, yet pushing falsehoods.

1. Police do not need a warrant, but they also do need to prove reasonable suspicion of a crime to ask for ID. They can't just walk up to you and ask for no reason. The Police also do not have access to every citizen and legal resident's information in the US. You are not required to have an ID in the US if you don't avail of certain services. Then to, to look up someone's information they must have a valid legal reason

2. At airports- You only get your face scanned, without that scan being kept in a permanent government repository when you travel & if you don't travel, you don't. In this case, the Chinese government is asking EVERY mobile user to have their faces scanned for merely owning a cell phone. Are they a security risk when they buy a phone? Are they going to hijack planes because they bought a phone?

3, You watched the officer being refused to give up an ID, and he could have continued to refuse, like in the other videos. Did you not say earlier that we have to give up ID in the US period? Why are you pushing another falsehood that she could find his identification through his plates? A plate says who owns the car, not who is driving it. Can you do the same in China? if so, why do you need facial pics of all cell phone owners to be kept by the government?

Why are you comparing democratic rights for citizens in the west to dictatorial laws in China as being the same? #Absurd
 
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On both occasions, you have chosen to go with blatant falsehoods to malign Canada and the US for the sake of China.

FACT: Police officers have power and ability to access your personal information without warrant.

This is what this all about, storing and accessing personal information.


Stop and identify statutes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

All police officers needed is coming out a reasonable excuse; erratic driving, stolen car, speeding, etc.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obligation_of_identification#Present_day_(Germany)
The German Act on Identity Cards and Electronic Identification (German: Personalausweisgesetz) requires all citizens over the age of 16 to be in possession of an identity card or passport and to be able to present this document to authorities on request, allowing for fines of up to 5000 € in cases of violations.[2] Except for specific circumstances, the act however does not demand carrying such a document at all times; in cases of suspicion of a crime and/or severe doubts as to the identity, police officials may temporarily apprehend persons or accompany them to their homes to produce the document there. The German identity card has a chip which stores an image of the holder's face and may also store fingerprints for holders from the age of 6.[3] Driver's licenses, health insurance cards and other documents issued by government-controlled authorities are not valid means of identification for German citizens.
 
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Are you seriously this dense? If you can't tell a difference between a cop pulling u over for possible DUI to a government without civilian accountability access to your personal data without checks & balance then there nothing I can help you with.

Hei bro, sama saja dengan kita. Sekarang SIM card juga butuh KTP dan kartu keluarga. Tinggal fotonya saja yang belum.
 
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FACT: Police officers have power and ability to access your personal information without warrant.

This is what this all about, storing and accessing personal information.


Stop and identify statutes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

All police officers needed is coming out a reasonable excuse; erratic driving, stolen car, speeding, etc.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obligation_of_identification#Present_day_(Germany)

Fact, you've said in your original claim and have changed your stance every post since_ that cops can just ask for ID and we have to give it up.

Fact, there needs to be reasonable suspicion.
Fact, a police officer cannot look up your information without a legal requirement behind it.
More facts: State ID is not shared across other states unless a crime has taken place.
More More facts: There is not a single repository owned by the government that houses information on all of its population, let alone have carte blanche access to it. Do you see the distinction?

Can the cops do the same in China? if so, why does every cell phone owner need to scan their pics to be held in a 'central' government repository- and without any check or balances?

Fact: From the wiki link you submitted it says in the very first sentence

"Stop and identify" statutes are statutory laws in the United States that authorize police[1] to legally demand the identity of someone whom they reasonably suspect of having committed a crime. If there is no reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed, an individual is not required to provide identification

Have a nice evening.
 
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All police officers needed is coming out a reasonable excuse; erratic driving, stolen car, speeding, etc.

Use the reasons I stated above. NO warrants needed.

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obligation_of_identification#Present_day_(Germany)
The German Act on Identity Cards and Electronic Identification (German: Personalausweisgesetz) requires all citizens over the age of 16 to be in possession of an identity card or passport and to be able to present this document to authorities on request, allowing for fines of up to 5000 € in cases of violations. ... The German identity card has a chip which stores an image of the holder's face and may also store fingerprints for holders from the age of 6..

Other government in other countries already have such extensive personal info, including photo, of their citizens already and what China is doing just a trend that have been going forward.
 
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Use the reasons I stated above. NO warrants needed.

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obligation_of_identification#Present_day_(Germany)


Other government in other countries already have such extensive personal info, including photo, of their citizens already and what China is doing just a trend that have been going forward.

Again, false equivalency. Even in the German case, it says they need suspicion of a crime to ask for ID, and can't just walk up and ask for one. Does China have mandatory IDs for all Chinese? Yes, they do. Then why are they asking for facial pics from every cell phone owner?
 
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Smartphone/SimCard registration requires name, address and other personal info. And these info links to other systems which identifies you, including your photo. Face photo is just another piece of information for identification, like your name, address, date of birth..etc. Smartphones in China have many uses now, including money payment and acting as a bank card and other identification items. If you register a phone, in China or any other country, then the governments already can track you, with or without face photo. When you use a credit card, have your smartphone on, make online purchases, uses Google, uses Facebook, or uses Microsoft Windows, governments already tracks you.

I don't know if you have it in Canada or in China, but in Australia, there are something called "Pre-Paid" mobile, in the US, they call it burner.

I can get a Pre-paid mobile from Optus, Telstra or Vodafone here in any store, it comes with a sim card and $30 pre-paid credit. You don't need any ID to open the mobile phone, nor name and address to own a pre-paid sim. And you don't need to use credit card and recharge your phone too, you can buy credit at any supermarket or even at newsagent.

These type of device is heavily used by overseas student because sometime you may not have enough visa to get a post paid one, on the other hand, also favoured by criminal in Australia and US because you cannot track who bought them and who used them,

FACT: Police officers have power and ability to access your personal information without warrant.

This is what this all about, storing and accessing personal information.


Stop and identify statutes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

All police officers needed is coming out a reasonable excuse; erratic driving, stolen car, speeding, etc.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obligation_of_identification#Present_day_(Germany)

Police CANNOT assess your personal information without a warrant and generally before any arrest is made, they can ask you, but it is up to you if you want to give them your personal information, however, if you decided to maintain silence at a terry stop when they ask you, you may give them probable clause to arrest you or detain you, depending on circumstance.

In your "Stop and Identify" reference, it also stated that a person who detained at a terry stop (a stop without clause) do not require you to answer any of the officer question, before or after Miranda'ed, some state require you to provide with a name, but that does not count as personal information because you can generally either not answer it, or give fake name.

Say at a traffic stop, you were stopped by the Police Roadblock, they can run your plate number without your consent (as that is public information) but they cannot reach over inside your wallet and take your ID without your consent, they can ask you for your ID, and you can give it to them, or not give it to them, they can detain you if you do not provide them with your ID, but they cannot charge you for not producing your ID, given if you did not do anything wrong other than refusing to give them the ID.

After arrest is another issue, arrest can only be made by either an arrest warrant or under probable cause. The first one is a court order, while the latter one is made via a standard to which the officer of the law have sufficient evidence that a crime have been committed and the person being arrested under probable cause are statistically probable to be involved. Notice that a Probable Cause alone is sufficient to obtain a search warrant. Which would lead to forcible surrendering of your private properties (Any item you have in your house, your person, your car and so on)

When a person is arrest, then it would be said as it is warranted, or suffice to issue a warrant. So only after that stage, the police can assess your personal information.

They "can" as in literally can access your information without your consent, but that would amount to illegal search and seizure, and any evidence comes out after that is then "tainted" and cannot be use in any court of law. It may also lead to civil lawsuit.

It is an addition process, procedure or feature uses by countries to increase/protect security of its citizens. Like, for example, you get face scan or finger printed at airports at USA. or like when you buy and use SimCard in Australia you need to provide personal info and photo taken too.

I never heard of you need to have photo taken to use Sim Card here in Australia

I only watched the first one. The policewoman gave weak excuse "indignity to a Police Officer." She could made up of many other false reasons. Still, the drive gave her his driver license. If fact, she didn't even need his driver license to check out his personal info. She could just enter his license plate and she have access to all this person info that way, including his photo; not warrants needed at all.

License plate are public information actually, those are not protected under privacy act in any country as far as I know. The purpose of the license plate is to public display your vehicle registration, if they cannot be publicly accessed, then would it be defeating the purpose of having your license plate display in the first place?

And no, license plate does not include many personal information, other than the owner name and the owner address. You cannot search the owner Driver License or Photo (Why would you need photo anyway as you are staring at the person)

In many countries, like germany, russia, australia, canada, etc, you need to provide personal information/PhotoID to purchase/register SimCard and PhonePlans. And all those information are linked to you and can be accessed police officers and other government agencies(like CIA, FBI..etc).

Again, you don't need information to open a SIM card in Australia, pretty sure in the US too. Not sure about the other country.
 
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https://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g255055-c207729/Australia:Sim.Card.Options.html
Australia requires you to have positive photo ID to buy a sim or phone. A passport is sufficient. The process of activating your sim online is quite easy, all you will need is your passport.

If you buy your sim at a phone shop, they will register and activate it for you. This is a good idea and is sufficient reason to buy your sim at a phone shop.


https://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g255055-c207729/Australia:Sim.Card.Options.html
Please note, when activating the sim card online you will need to provide an Australian address - please use the address of your accommodation in Australia. Furthermore, when activating the sim, you will be asked for either your passport or debit/credit card details for verification purposes. You can try doing this before you depart your country however, the carriers online activation system is linked with Australia's immigration system so it may not let you activate prior if your Visa is not yet valid/you have not entered the country.


https://www.acma.gov.au/id-checks-prepaid-mobiles
Telcos must check your identity when you buy or activate a prepaid mobile service. There are several ways they can do this.

To activate a new prepaid mobile service, you will need to give the telco your:

  • name
  • date of birth
  • home address (or business name and address if you’re activating on behalf of a business)

Of course, all those information are already in the Australian government database and they are all linked together.


And no, license plate does not include many personal information, other than the owner name and the owner address. You cannot search the owner Driver License or Photo

There are the information on the actually license plate and driver license then they are linked together with other information on police database.
 
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I can tell you that it is a fact you are not just watched by the state in many countries, even in the west, but also by corporations, who monitor what you buy, what you internet search.
 
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What a load of BS!
The mouthpiece of western meida is on the top now.
 
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This is not the same thing and you know it.

When we had landlines, we did not have to present our biometrics as ID to buy a telephone from Radio Shack. No different with the modern day cell phone as I should not be required to have a logical link of my face to my cell phone. The driver's license needs your photo because of the car, which can be dangerous on the roads. All the other items in your list have justifications attached to them. So what justifications are there for the government to require my face attached to my cell phone? Other than to have an increasing control and monitor of the citizenry, no justifications at all.
In Pakistan we require thumb verification for new sim card and that is directly linked to our NIC
 
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