China local brands brace for onslaught from abroad

[Sashan]

I have screened off the cars that are produced by JVs. Our local made cars are selling much better than yours obviously. In respect of the overall perspective for passenger cars, we are attracting a whole lot more major top brands to build their factories in China than their presence in india. We are not bragging our indigenous auto industry is the best. But in view of the wide spectrum of foreign auto technologies that are engaging in co-operative production with us plus our own R n D, I am pretty confident a late starter like China can catch up on the fastest lane!

Also on another note, we are contributing a lot more to the revival of the world's economy!

I do not disagree that China has bigger automotive industry - Infact it is the largest even compared to U.S and Japan combined together. I am disputing you claiming that it is better than India's and you have not provided any evidence around it.

Here is a link for you -

Who's Winning the Asian Auto Derby - BusinessWeek

From the link -

"India's advantage lies in its strong engineering skills and a large supplier base, which has learned to meet the strict quality requirements of European markets," says Ammar Master, an analyst with J.D. Power & Associates (MHP).

 

[kewell333]

I do not disagree that China has bigger automotive industry - Infact it is the largest even compared to U.S and Japan combined together. I am disputing you claiming that it is better than India's and you have not provided any evidence around it.

Here is a link for you -

Who's Winning the Asian Auto Derby - BusinessWeek

From the link -

"India's advantage lies in its strong engineering skills and a large supplier base, which has learned to meet the strict quality requirements of European markets," says Ammar Master, an analyst with J.D. Power & Associates (MHP).

It is an article at the end of 2009, I still remember I have seem some similar in news of TOI and Rediff.

All they talk about India auto export surpass China in 2009 and cheer for it, and proudly analysis of the advantages of India automobile industry.

I feel the authors did not understand t the situation of China and India automobile industry in 2009,all their subjective judgment analysis. I just seem it as a joke at that time.

In fact, China auto market has an explosive growth in 2009, all automobile manufacturersare work 24 hours to meet the demand , and car shops are crowded like supermarket. When a customer booking car, he had to wait 4-6months because too many people book cars at the same time.

At the end of this year,China auto sales increased by nearly 50% to almost 14 million with the world economic crisis. Automobile production cannot keep up with domestic demand this year,how could there be redundant ones to exports?

The increased auto sales(4 million) of China in 2009 was two times of the totoal production in India. So those authors completely like frogs in th well.

Until today, China auto market is eight times of India's,and four Chinese auto companies in the Fortune 500. China is the largetset production base and market of most of the world auto giants. There are several companies each one has a production more more than totol India's, and they don't product small cars.

 

[Sashan]

It is an article at the end of 2009, I still remember I have seem some similar in news of TOI and Rediff.

All they talk about India auto export surpass China in 2009 and cheer for it, and proudly analysis of the advantages of India automobile industry.

I feel the authors did not understand t the situation of China and India automobile industry in 2009,all their subjective judgment analysis. I just seem it as a joke at that time.

In fact, China auto market has an explosive growth in 2009, all automobile manufacturersare work 24 hours to meet the demand , and car shops are crowded like supermarket. When a customer booking car, he had to wait 4-6months because too many people book cars at the same time.

At the end of this year,China auto sales increased by nearly 50% to almost 14 million with the world economic crisis. Automobile production cannot keep up with domestic demand this year,how could there be redundant ones to exports?

The increased auto sales(4 million) of China in 2009 was two times of the totoal production in India. So those authors completely like frogs in th well.

Until today, China auto market is eight times of India's,and four Chinese auto companies in the Fortune 500. China is the largetset production base and market of most of the world auto giants. There are several companies each one has a production more more than totol India's, and they don't product small cars.

Mate - do you comprehend the difference between quantity and quality? I have mentioned above very clearly that China has the largest automotive industry - let me repeat it again - it manufactures 18 million vehicles per year while US and Japan manufacture 8.5 million each roughly while India itself manufactures 3.9 million.

I am pointing to the quality of the industry which he claimed is better than India's.

 

[Rod of God]

... The reason Hyundai Veloster is bigger yet lighter than Honda CR-X is because of custom steel from Hyundai's internal steel mill.

My wife just got a Veloster and she LOVES it !! It's a pretty cool little car.

 

[kewell333]

Mate - do you comprehend the difference between quantity and quality? I have mentioned above very clearly that China has the largest automotive industry - let me repeat it again - it manufactures 18 million vehicles per year while US and Japan manufacture 8.5 million each roughly while India itself manufactures 3.9 million.

I am pointing to the quality of the industry which he claimed is better than India's.

Sorry, I don't know what you want to debate with the "quality".

Profit rate? Automation level ? Export? Single car value? Innovation? Scale of local manufacturers?
I don't know each India can compare to China.

 

[Sashan]

Sorry, I don't know what you want to debate with the "quality".

Profit rate? Automation level ? Export? Single car value? Innovation? Scale of local manufacturers?
I don't know each India can compare to China.

Mate - Let us go for the indigenous automobile manufacturers and the products in India and China. That is where my participation in the thread started and let us continue with it. What say you?

 

[Zeeshan360]

Hyundai is basically garbage. Japan has been limiting the sale of advanced precision machine tools to Hyundai, how can you make good cars?

Oh plz stop claiming Japan has the advanced technology

Korean companies like Samsung , LG have annihilated Japanese electronic companies ..
Sony , Panasonic , Sharp posted a cumulative loss of 21 billion dollars while Samsung , LG made a profit

The same will be situation of Japanese automobile companies if they don't change their policies ..
In India all the high posts in Maruti Suzuki are given to Japanese while in Hyundai they are given to Indians ..
Freaking racist people these Japanese are .
Maruti Suzuki is posting YoY decrease in sales .. On the other hand Hyundai as well as other companies are posting YoY increase in sales

Btw India is a major market for Suzuki ..
Their losses here could have drastic effect on their sales chart .

 

[kewell333]

Mate - Let us go for the indigenous automobile manufacturers and the products in India and China. That is where my participation in the thread started and let us continue with it. What say you?

You will talk about the indigenous automobile manufacturers, but what ? Profit rate? Automation level ? Export? Single car value? Innovation? or Scale of indigenous manufacturers?

And the only one you can talk is maruti, but China has many automobile manufacturers , such as FAW / SAIC/ DONGFENG ( which are first class),
and GAIC/BAIC//TIAC/Changan/Cherry/gleely/HCIC/Huachen(which are second class).

So what and which will you start with?

 

[Sashan]

You will talk about the indigenous automobile manufacturers, but what ? Profit rate? Automation level ? Export? Single car value? Innovation? or Scale of indigenous manufacturers?

And the only one you can talk is maruti, but China has many automobile manufacturers , such as FAW / SAIC/ DONGFENG ( which are first class),
and GAIC/BAIC//TIAC/Changan/Cherry/gleely/HCIC/Huachen(which are second class).

So what and which will you start with?

How about we start with the basics - design of your indigenous cars vs India's?

Here are couple of pointers for you - Your indigenous car design is either outsourced or copies of famous brands. Example your BS6 is designed by Italian car designer. And the engine too from the same company but other components from different companies. Ultimately it failed miserably in crash tests in Germany and even one your govt institutions evaluated it and felt the safety is very poor.

Look up for Automotive industry of China in wikipedia and look for the section copying controversy.

Also google what the U.S consul to Guangzhou has said in Wikileaks - BYD seeks to Build Your Dreams - based on someone else's designs.


India's indigenous cars are designed by talented inhouse engineers.

Couple of them - Scorpio - It was developed by inhouse engineers - Scorpio was able to penetrate markets in many countries - It would have penetrated the market in US in 2011 but got stuck with a license dispute after it signed a deal with Global Vehicles USA and later wanted to enter the market directly.

Tata Nano - You will not have a $2000 car if you do not start your design from the scratch. Any copy of existing car designs will have increased the cost to somewhere north of $4000-$5000.

 

[kewell333]

I really don't know what you say "BS6".

And you said you will compare the indigenous auto manufacturers. I have said China has many automobile manufacturers , such as FAW / SAIC/ DONGFENG ( which are first class), and GAIC/BAIC//TIAC/Changan/Cherry/gleely/HCIC/Huachen/JAC/great wall(which are second class).

I am sure you will talk about BYD. Although BYD was valued and equity by Buffett, and famous in Electric car,it really copied two car from Toyota and Honda.And so did several by others. But other hundreds who has copied?

Who said BYD can on behalf of the Chinese Auto industry level? It even can't rank the top ten indigenous manufacturers in China market by auto sales.

If you hope to a fair comparison. We can list the top ten of China and India indigenous manufacturers, and have a look on them each on the automobile industry level.

 

[kewell333]

rank by sales
1:
SAIC (上汽集&#22242

SAIC has indigenous car call Ronwei(荣&#23041.

950
18.89-31.99万RMB($30000-$50800)

550
12.48-18.98万RMB($19500-$30200)

750
16.28-25.18万RMB($25900-40300$)

 

[Sashan]

I really don't know what you say "BS6".

And you said you will compare the indigenous auto manufacturers. I have said China has many automobile manufacturers , such as FAW / SAIC/ DONGFENG ( which are first class), and GAIC/BAIC//TIAC/Changan/Cherry/gleely/HCIC/Huachen/JAC/great wall(which are second class).

I am sure you will talk about BYD. Although BYD was valued and equity by Buffett, and famous in Electric car,it really copied two car from Toyota and Honda.And so did several by others. But other hundreds who has copied?

Who said BYD can on behalf of the Chinese Auto industry level? It even can't rank the top ten indigenous manufacturers in China market by auto sales.

If you hope to a fair comparison. We can list the top ten of China and India indigenous manufacturers, and have a look on them each on the automobile industry level.

I know you would bring Buffet investment in BYD. The more recent news is that his investment is long been declining. I did not bring up your major players as these are JVs - like in India you have the Maruti which is a JV between Maruti Udyog and Suzuki.

The two cars I quoted are no JV indigenous ones.

I agree to list the pure indigenous ones and not JVs.

rank by sales
1:
SAIC (上汽集&#22242

SAIC has indigenous car call Ronwei(荣&#23041.

950
18.89-31.99万RMB($30000-$50800)

550
12.48-18.98万RMB($19500-$30200)

750
16.28-25.18万RMB($25900-40300$)

Again Roewe

The Roewe 950 represents the closeness of GM and SAIC’s cooperation, the new 950 rides on top of GM’s Epsillon II platform and is one of the few occasions that a foreign company has handed over its more recent technologies to its Chinese partner, usually the last generation of product is handed over to the Chinese side.

- Again this one is not indigenous.

 

[kewell333]

There is who talk about BYD first? I don't even list it. What I said is it even can't rank the top ten indigenous manufacturers in China market by auto sales. And don't talk a lot but do nothing, let me see the "indigenous" vehicle made by India.

2. FAW

红旗

B90

 

[Sashan]

There is who talk about BYD first? I don't even list it. What I said is it even can't rank the top ten indigenous manufacturers in China market by auto sales. And don't talk a lot but do nothing, let me see the "indigenous" vehicle made by India.

2. FAW

红旗

B90

The reason why I brought up BYD is to provide an insight into the design issues what China faces with its cars.

And I did not bring in your major players as these are mostly JVs with foreign companies. Unlike other areas of Chinese industry, China's car industry thrives in JVs and tight regulations by Chinese govt - I do understand that the govt have been doing it to bring in technology quickly but it is taking an opposite effect. The indigenous ones are ones which showcases the engineering might(and not manufacturning might) and will help in the long term. The entrepreneurial nature of the Indian car companies is the edge what these companies have. Mahindra especially have tasted success - it is the world's largest tractor manufacturning company and that is what has given it confidence in the automobile segment and it has started seeing success globally.

I posted the list of top selling brands in India and China in post #21 and where the various indigenous brands fare in competition with the JV brands or pure foreign brands.

If you want a straight forward comparison, do post your top 5 indigenous ones(to avoid spending much time on researching) and I will come up with the list and see how they fare.

 

[kewell333]

Would you please tell me the RedFlag and B series made by which JVs?

And "Tractor"? Three wheels?

Sorry, we don't count "Tractor" as 'Auto".

And if you turn to others such as truck and bus, it will be more unfair to you.

Still the word, don't talk a lot but do nothing. show us the "indigenous" cars made by India and prove the "engineering might" of India manufacters.