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China-India Geopolitics: News & Discussions

Well that is not what I understand. China giving up S Tibet was in good faith but India saw it as a sign of weakness. India then proposed to negotiate each area separately hoping to get more concession. This was when China position hardened. This is my understanding.
If a war happen bad blood between India and China may last two to three generations. In any negotiation you have to give and take.
India's point of view has been relatively simple, areas south of Himalayas have historically been part of our country. Himalayas forms our natural border. We went as far as giving up our claim(unofficially) on Aksai Chin, all we wanted was for your country to stay off Arunachal. That arrangement was agreed upon and it was settled unofficially until you reneged on your commitments.

Let us at least agree that diplomatic negotiation is the way forward, not this war mongering.
 
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What can you expect from a person whose party was thrown away by general public in the elections. None of them is elected and some have lost their deposits too. Now they are going to loose the Rajya Sabha too in coming days. Karat's days are numbered in RS hence he is trying to come back to limelight.
 
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What iron fist? Do you think India is Philippines,and Modi is Duterte?...India too is a nuclear power with missile covering every inch of China. If you use iron fist, we too will use iron fist on China...
Duterte is a politician and Modi is a mob.

What can you expect from a person whose party was thrown away by general public in the elections. None of them is elected and some have lost their deposits too. Now they are going to loose the Rajya Sabha too in coming days. Karat's days are numbered in RS hence he is trying to come back to limelight.
He is a honest man. Very pitty the BJP gang will persecute him for sure.
 
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I dont say whether he is honest or not, but he is just trying to be in limelight.
What's wrong to be honest? It's BJP wants to put him in limelight cause the redneck party cheats its own people 24 hours a day. I tell you a joke: Mumbai is better than Shanghai.

Modi is having a tiger by his tail, see how he is gonna wiggle out.
 
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India's point of view has been relatively simple, areas south of Himalayas have historically been part of our country. Himalayas forms our natural border. We went as far as giving up our claim(unofficially) on Aksai Chin, all we wanted was for your country to stay off Arunachal. That arrangement was agreed upon and it was settled unofficially until you reneged on your commitments.

Let us at least agree that diplomatic negotiation is the way forward, not this war mongering.
Historically, areas south of the Himalayas are hundreds of princely states.
Historically, there is no India.

India did not give up claim on Aksai Chin, or else 1962 war would not have happened.
India got the beating of their lives when they thought China weakened with famines and preoccupied with the Korean War, would not dare to oppose India's greedy land grab.

Its good that Bhutan now realized that India is the real hegemonic bully and land grabber.
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Read this idiot:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...lam-belongs-to-china/articleshow/60001311.cms

And fyi, my comment is specifically for the Indo-China talks held in the last 30 years, nowhere did i bring '62 to it.
But it's futile to talk to someone with the attention span of a 5 years old..
One very glaring omission from the link you gave.
THERE IS NO MENTION OF INDIA.
This is a good time for Bhutan to confirm if Bhutan had requested help from India.
BUT NOTHING ON BHUTAN CALLING FOR HELP FROM INDIA,
even when many are calling India a LIAR.

No need to throw childish tantrums here.
I know you are very stressed waiting and waiting,
not knowing when China will start war with India.
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For people who often mistaken the friendly gesture into a sign of weakness, then we can only show them with the iron fist.
After China routed the Indian army in 1962, they withdraw also in good faith hoping India would come to its sense and settle the border once and for all. China knows there is never a military solution. It make no sense to drag this border issue to the next generation and the next. India and China are not traditional enemies. Let's keep it that way.
 
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Spare the Kashmiris. The people belong to us
whether it is palestine or kashmir its only the land not the ppl that matters to the powers involved. If pakistan were so interested in welfare of kashmirirs they are better of taking million odd trouble makers to their own land. Fact that pakistan has kept gilgit ,baltistan out pakistan federation speaks volumes about their intentions. Just like bangladesh pakistan will harp on loss of territory than loss of lives.
 
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We will see.

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Never said US would have move on to Beijing, I said Chinese by engaging in Korean war, Failed both Strategic and Operation Goal and drawing the Tactical Goal, and most historian would agree MacArthur would return to Japan and continue to serve as Governor of Japan once the Korean war is wrapped up.

My stance is, US does not have reason or even urge to invade North Korea to begin with, let alone invading China had North Korean not invaded the South, chances are the South Korean would still be free of US troop because the simple fact that South Korean need US troop is to stop another Potential Northern invasion.

That is my point, my mind is made up, but yours is not.



How Mao would know? Let's go back to 1950.

China just expelled Taiwan to the island, South Korea did not have US support to rebuild the military. South Korean don't even have a tank and US do not have any soldier in a level that can raise any sort of resistance, the first instant of US resistance of the Korean War is Task Force Smith, which is a 408 men Battalion of the 24th Infantry Division stationed in Japan. US have no hard influence in South Korea when the hostility started. There are no indication that US even have any sort of preparation to go that far into North Korea/Chinese Border, if they are intended to do so, they would have use more than 2 division plus a Marine Regiment. Total US/ROK division would have not more than 300,000 soldier, which is almost able to match the troop that North Korean have, do you think people are stupid enough to march 5 divisions of troop into China, knowing they have millions of troop still being mobilised from the Civil War?

On the other hand, had US wanted to attack China, the way to do it is by launching a Amphibious Assault, not invade from a ground route, because of one simple fact that China does NOT have a navy in 1950. Any reasonable Military Planner would have helped Taiwan to reform and then using Taiwan to launch a Amphibious Assault toward favourable land, getting maximized Naval and Air Support rather than the Chinese North East Border, which is full of mountain. Which inhibit any sort of Supporting Fire.

Point is, what Mao see does not really matter, What he did does. The fact remain, the sole reason Mao start mobilizing into Korea is to eliminated American Threat toward North East Border, but today, the threat still remain, you can bomb the US base at will in case of war, can you make anything out of it is another matter, but whatever that result is, you are looking at a Full on US invasion if you bomb the US base in Korea, which is the full might of the US Military Power brought to bear, which, I don't know how you slice it, it's a damn creditable threat if you ask me. On the other hand, have US have no base in Korea (South Korea or otherwise) you can bomb whatever the hack you want and US will not be involved because there are no need. In fact, had China not engage in the conflict, there are pretty good chance a United Korea under the Southern Regime would have been friendly toward China instead of the US, because of one common enemy, Japan. Unless US change their policy toward Japan, I am pretty sure a unified Korea would see Japan as a threat and will joined the like minded country for an alliance.

And finally, so what the "laundrymen" can fight the superpower? Anybody can fight the US, don't forget the Japanese did fought the US already, and in term of Military tactics, Japanese performed much better than China in term of the ability to hold their own. The problem is, there are something called Pyrrhic Victory, like how Soviet Union win over Nazi Germany despite heavy casualty, but there are no such thing as Pyrrhic Draw. You can claim whatever you want about being "Inferior" or stopping the American on its track, the problem is, that is not an achievement, if you are engage in a war, you fight to win, if you fail to win, you failed your objective. There are no place for romanticized account on how People Volunteer soldier bravely died stopping the US imperial tyrant on his track, you could probably make a movie out of it, but not call it any sort of military achievement. Because on the other hand, US did the same thing to China, with only losing 1/8 of the men lost by the Chinese. So, if what you think is an achievement, then what about the American?




No, THE, (notice the word "THE") Korean war memorial is opened in 1986, that does not mean there are no memorial before that, roads started to rename as Korean War Memorial Drive since 1960-1970, place like Korean War Veteran Parkway was named and established in 1972, ships, location have been named after Korean War medal of honour recipient since late 60s. And Korean War was accepted into the hall of VFW immediately after the war

The reason why The Korean War Memorial has only started in 1986 is because there aren't many site dedicated in the US, most of the Museum piece is located in War Museum and other War Memorial, that's because in the US, American saw every vet have the same status, whether or not you fought in WW2, The great war or the Civil War. individual Memorial or Museum are very few and far between, that does not mean they did not celebrate the veteran from Korean War. The National World War 2 Museum is opened by George W Bush in 2004, does that mean there are no remembrance for WW2 vet before 2004??



It meant to show you all other war subsequently happened to China is not from the same border, not even the same direction. Which mean had the Chinese did not interfere with Korean War, the Chinese did not lose the so called "Security" toward the North-Eastern border, because there were no war from that border, only people trying to escape the northern regime coming thru that border.
A very timely article.

Everything You Need to Know: How China and America Went to War in Korea

Robert Farley

August 13, 2017

The most interesting, useful lessons may involve botched war termination. The Korean War dragged on for nearly two years after the settlement of the key strategic issues became clear. Nevertheless, poor communication between Washington and Beijing, combined with reputational concerns on both sides, inflated minor issues—such as POW repatriation—and extended the war well beyond its productive limits. That the United States viewed its conflict with China as a proxy war complicated the problem, as American policy makers became obsessed with the message that every action sent to the Soviet Union. In any future conflict, even as political questions associated with escalation and reputation loom large, Beijing can likely count on having Washington’s full, focused attention.

In November 1950, China and the United States went to war. Thirty-six thousand Americans died, along with upwards of a quarter million Chinese, and half a million or more Koreans. If the United States was deeply surprised to find itself at war with the People’s Republic of China, a country that hadn’t even existed the year before, it was even more surprised to find itself losing that war. The opening Chinese offensive, launched from deep within North Korea, took U.S. forces by complete operational surprise. The U.S.-led United Nations offensive into North Korea was thrown back, with the U.S. Army handed its worst defeat since the American Civil War.

The legacies of this war remain deep, complex and underexamined. Memory of the Korean War in the United States is obscured by the looming shadows of World War II and Vietnam. China remembers the conflict differently, but China’s position in the world has changed in deep and fundamental ways since the 1950s. Still, as we consider the potential for future conflict between China and the United States, we should try to wring what lessons we can from the first Sino-American war.


Initiation

In early 1950, the politics of the Cold War had not yet solidified around a pair of mutually hostile blocks. Nevertheless, the contours were visible; the Soviets had spent several years consolidating control of Eastern Europe, and the Chinese Communist Party had ridden the victories of the People’s Liberation Army to power in Beijing. The stage was set for a zero-sum interpretation of the global struggle between Communist and non-Communist powers. It was just such an interpretation that dominated Washington’s thinking as North Korean forces escalated the Korean civil war with a massive invasion across the 38th parallel.

Inside the United States, tension over the collapse of Nationalist China remained high. The Nationalist government possessed an extremely effective public-relations machine in the United States, built around the Soong family’s relationship with Henry Luce. This influential domestic lobby helped push the United States towards both intervention and escalation, while at the same time undercutting the advice of experts who offered words of caution about Beijing’s capabilities and interests.

The initial Chinese victories in late fall of 1950 resulted from a colossal intelligence failure on the part of the United States. These failures ran the gamut from political, to strategic, to operational, to tactical. The politicization of American expertise on China following the establishment of the PRC meant that U.S. policy makers struggled to understand Chinese messages. The United States also misunderstood the complex relationship between Moscow, Beijing and Pyongyang, treating the group as unitary actor without appreciating the serious political differences between the countries.

On an operational level, advancing U.S. forces paid little heed to warnings of Chinese intervention. The United States failed to understand the importance of the North Korean buffer to Beijing, failed to detect Chinese preparations for intervention, failed to detect Chinese soldiers operating in North Korea and failed to understand the overall strength of the Chinese forces. This lack of caution stemmed from several sources. The U.S. military, having had experience with Chinese Nationalist forces during World War II, had little respect for the capabilities of the PLA, especially outside of Chinese borders. Americans overrated the importance of air superiority at the tactical and operational level, not to mention the relevance of nuclear weapons at the strategic level.

Conduct

The People’s Liberation Army appreciated the significance of U.S. air superiority over the battlefield, as well as the effectiveness of U.S. armor and artillery. The PLA (or PVA, as the expeditionary force in North Korea was dubbed) attempted to fight with the hybrid insurgent tactics that it had used to prevail in the Chinese Civil War. This involved using light infantry formations, designed to move and attack at night, in order to avoid U.S. airpower and concentrated American firepower. These tactics allowed the PLA to surprise U.S. forces, which were uncertain of the magnitude of Chinese intervention until it was too late to do anything but retreat.

Similarly, the United States fought with the tactics (and often the weapons) that it had used in World War II. Although North Korean armor and artillery had outmatched unprepared U.S. ground forces in the opening weeks of the war, by the time of the Chinese counteroffensive, the United States was fielding mobile, armored forces and employing combined arms tactics. These weapons and tactics allowed the United States to inflict severe losses on Chinese forces, even as it gave up wide swaths of territory.


The U.S. Air Force and the U.S. Navy expected to conduct sea and air operations in what we now refer to as a permissive environment, without significant interference from Communist forces. The Navy was right; the Air Force was wrong. Expecting overwhelming advantages in training and material, the U.S. air forces found cagey Communist forces equipped with the MiG-15 interceptors, which could outfight American piston-engined aircraft and most early jets. Formations of B-29s attempted to conduct daylight precision bombing raids of North Korea, finding that MiG-15s could cut them to pieces. U.S. forces, fresh from the bloody organizational fights that had birthed the U.S. Air Force, also struggled to develop a compatible, cooperative ground-air doctrine. Still, despite the problems, the United States managed to establish and hold air superiority for most of the war, using that freedom to inflict severe damage on Chinese and North Korean forces, infrastructure and logistics.

Lessons and Legacies

The most important legacy of the first Sino-American War is the enduring division of the Korean Peninsula. Following the exhaustion of the Chinese counteroffensive, neither side really threatened to throw the other off the peninsula. The relationships between Seoul, Washington, Beijing and Pyongyang have changed mightily over the years, but the conflict remains frozen along the geography established in 1953.

Many of the problems have stayed the same, despite the fundamental transformations that have overtaken global politics. Beijing has grown tired of the antics of its North Korean client, just as South Korea has grown significantly in wealth and power. But North Korea can still threaten the security and prosperity of the Republic of Korea, and threats to the DPRK are still felt in Beijing.

China and the United States remember this conflict much differently. For the United States, the Korean War represents an odd aberration; a war fought for justice, but without satisfactory resolution. Americans’ most enduring memory of the conflict came through the television show M.A.S.H., which used the war as a proxy for talking about U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Even this memory has begun to fade, however.

For China, the war represents a remarkable victory over imperialism in the face of overwhelming odds. It introduced the People’s Republic of China to the international system with a (literal) bang. At the same time, the legacy of the war complicated China’s international situation. In part because of the memory of Chinese intervention, but also in combination with China’s domestic politics, the United States managed to keep the PRC isolated from the international system into the 1970s. Today, the PRC poses a quasi-imperial threat to neighbors all along its vast periphery, while at the same time representing one of the three major tent-poles of the growing global economy.

Militarily, the political, social and technological conditions that produced mass infantry warfare in Korea in the 1950s no longer hold. The United States has grown accustomed to fighting opponents who excel in hybrid warfare, but the People’s Liberation Army has been out of that business for decades. The ground forces of the PLA are now transitioning between mechanized and postmechanized warfare, while the air and sea forces are in the process of perfecting the world’s most extensive anti-access/area denial system. If conflict were to happen again, China would challenge U.S. control of the air and seas in a way that it never did during the Korean conflict.

The most interesting, useful lessons may involve botched war termination. The Korean War dragged on for nearly two years after the settlement of the key strategic issues became clear. Nevertheless, poor communication between Washington and Beijing, combined with reputational concerns on both sides, inflated minor issues—such as POW repatriation—and extended the war well beyond its productive limits. That the United States viewed its conflict with China as a proxy war complicated the problem, as American policy makers became obsessed with the message that every action sent to the Soviet Union. In any future conflict, even as political questions associated with escalation and reputation loom large, Beijing can likely count on having Washington’s full, focused attention.

Conclusion

There was nothing good about the last Sino-American War, not even the “peace” that resulted from it. The experience of this war, now nearly forgotten on both sides, should serve as a grim lesson for policy makers in both Washington and Beijing. The Korean War was anything but accidental, but miscalculation and miscommunication both extended and broadened the war beyond its necessary boundaries.

Robert Farley is an Senior Lecturer at the Patterson School of Diplomacy and International Commerce. His work includes military doctrine, national security, and maritime affairs. He blogs at Lawyers, Guns and Money and Information Dissemination and The Diplomat. Follow him on Twitter:@drfarls.

This first appeared several years ago and is being reposted due to reader interest.
 
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A very timely article.

Everything You Need to Know: How China and America Went to War in Korea

Robert Farley

August 13, 2017

The most interesting, useful lessons may involve botched war termination. The Korean War dragged on for nearly two years after the settlement of the key strategic issues became clear. Nevertheless, poor communication between Washington and Beijing, combined with reputational concerns on both sides, inflated minor issues—such as POW repatriation—and extended the war well beyond its productive limits. That the United States viewed its conflict with China as a proxy war complicated the problem, as American policy makers became obsessed with the message that every action sent to the Soviet Union. In any future conflict, even as political questions associated with escalation and reputation loom large, Beijing can likely count on having Washington’s full, focused attention.

In November 1950, China and the United States went to war. Thirty-six thousand Americans died, along with upwards of a quarter million Chinese, and half a million or more Koreans. If the United States was deeply surprised to find itself at war with the People’s Republic of China, a country that hadn’t even existed the year before, it was even more surprised to find itself losing that war. The opening Chinese offensive, launched from deep within North Korea, took U.S. forces by complete operational surprise. The U.S.-led United Nations offensive into North Korea was thrown back, with the U.S. Army handed its worst defeat since the American Civil War.

The legacies of this war remain deep, complex and underexamined. Memory of the Korean War in the United States is obscured by the looming shadows of World War II and Vietnam. China remembers the conflict differently, but China’s position in the world has changed in deep and fundamental ways since the 1950s. Still, as we consider the potential for future conflict between China and the United States, we should try to wring what lessons we can from the first Sino-American war.


Initiation

In early 1950, the politics of the Cold War had not yet solidified around a pair of mutually hostile blocks. Nevertheless, the contours were visible; the Soviets had spent several years consolidating control of Eastern Europe, and the Chinese Communist Party had ridden the victories of the People’s Liberation Army to power in Beijing. The stage was set for a zero-sum interpretation of the global struggle between Communist and non-Communist powers. It was just such an interpretation that dominated Washington’s thinking as North Korean forces escalated the Korean civil war with a massive invasion across the 38th parallel.

Inside the United States, tension over the collapse of Nationalist China remained high. The Nationalist government possessed an extremely effective public-relations machine in the United States, built around the Soong family’s relationship with Henry Luce. This influential domestic lobby helped push the United States towards both intervention and escalation, while at the same time undercutting the advice of experts who offered words of caution about Beijing’s capabilities and interests.

The initial Chinese victories in late fall of 1950 resulted from a colossal intelligence failure on the part of the United States. These failures ran the gamut from political, to strategic, to operational, to tactical. The politicization of American expertise on China following the establishment of the PRC meant that U.S. policy makers struggled to understand Chinese messages. The United States also misunderstood the complex relationship between Moscow, Beijing and Pyongyang, treating the group as unitary actor without appreciating the serious political differences between the countries.

On an operational level, advancing U.S. forces paid little heed to warnings of Chinese intervention. The United States failed to understand the importance of the North Korean buffer to Beijing, failed to detect Chinese preparations for intervention, failed to detect Chinese soldiers operating in North Korea and failed to understand the overall strength of the Chinese forces. This lack of caution stemmed from several sources. The U.S. military, having had experience with Chinese Nationalist forces during World War II, had little respect for the capabilities of the PLA, especially outside of Chinese borders. Americans overrated the importance of air superiority at the tactical and operational level, not to mention the relevance of nuclear weapons at the strategic level.

Conduct

The People’s Liberation Army appreciated the significance of U.S. air superiority over the battlefield, as well as the effectiveness of U.S. armor and artillery. The PLA (or PVA, as the expeditionary force in North Korea was dubbed) attempted to fight with the hybrid insurgent tactics that it had used to prevail in the Chinese Civil War. This involved using light infantry formations, designed to move and attack at night, in order to avoid U.S. airpower and concentrated American firepower. These tactics allowed the PLA to surprise U.S. forces, which were uncertain of the magnitude of Chinese intervention until it was too late to do anything but retreat.

Similarly, the United States fought with the tactics (and often the weapons) that it had used in World War II. Although North Korean armor and artillery had outmatched unprepared U.S. ground forces in the opening weeks of the war, by the time of the Chinese counteroffensive, the United States was fielding mobile, armored forces and employing combined arms tactics. These weapons and tactics allowed the United States to inflict severe losses on Chinese forces, even as it gave up wide swaths of territory.


The U.S. Air Force and the U.S. Navy expected to conduct sea and air operations in what we now refer to as a permissive environment, without significant interference from Communist forces. The Navy was right; the Air Force was wrong. Expecting overwhelming advantages in training and material, the U.S. air forces found cagey Communist forces equipped with the MiG-15 interceptors, which could outfight American piston-engined aircraft and most early jets. Formations of B-29s attempted to conduct daylight precision bombing raids of North Korea, finding that MiG-15s could cut them to pieces. U.S. forces, fresh from the bloody organizational fights that had birthed the U.S. Air Force, also struggled to develop a compatible, cooperative ground-air doctrine. Still, despite the problems, the United States managed to establish and hold air superiority for most of the war, using that freedom to inflict severe damage on Chinese and North Korean forces, infrastructure and logistics.

Lessons and Legacies

The most important legacy of the first Sino-American War is the enduring division of the Korean Peninsula. Following the exhaustion of the Chinese counteroffensive, neither side really threatened to throw the other off the peninsula. The relationships between Seoul, Washington, Beijing and Pyongyang have changed mightily over the years, but the conflict remains frozen along the geography established in 1953.

Many of the problems have stayed the same, despite the fundamental transformations that have overtaken global politics. Beijing has grown tired of the antics of its North Korean client, just as South Korea has grown significantly in wealth and power. But North Korea can still threaten the security and prosperity of the Republic of Korea, and threats to the DPRK are still felt in Beijing.

China and the United States remember this conflict much differently. For the United States, the Korean War represents an odd aberration; a war fought for justice, but without satisfactory resolution. Americans’ most enduring memory of the conflict came through the television show M.A.S.H., which used the war as a proxy for talking about U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Even this memory has begun to fade, however.

For China, the war represents a remarkable victory over imperialism in the face of overwhelming odds. It introduced the People’s Republic of China to the international system with a (literal) bang. At the same time, the legacy of the war complicated China’s international situation. In part because of the memory of Chinese intervention, but also in combination with China’s domestic politics, the United States managed to keep the PRC isolated from the international system into the 1970s. Today, the PRC poses a quasi-imperial threat to neighbors all along its vast periphery, while at the same time representing one of the three major tent-poles of the growing global economy.

Militarily, the political, social and technological conditions that produced mass infantry warfare in Korea in the 1950s no longer hold. The United States has grown accustomed to fighting opponents who excel in hybrid warfare, but the People’s Liberation Army has been out of that business for decades. The ground forces of the PLA are now transitioning between mechanized and postmechanized warfare, while the air and sea forces are in the process of perfecting the world’s most extensive anti-access/area denial system. If conflict were to happen again, China would challenge U.S. control of the air and seas in a way that it never did during the Korean conflict.

The most interesting, useful lessons may involve botched war termination. The Korean War dragged on for nearly two years after the settlement of the key strategic issues became clear. Nevertheless, poor communication between Washington and Beijing, combined with reputational concerns on both sides, inflated minor issues—such as POW repatriation—and extended the war well beyond its productive limits. That the United States viewed its conflict with China as a proxy war complicated the problem, as American policy makers became obsessed with the message that every action sent to the Soviet Union. In any future conflict, even as political questions associated with escalation and reputation loom large, Beijing can likely count on having Washington’s full, focused attention.

Conclusion

There was nothing good about the last Sino-American War, not even the “peace” that resulted from it. The experience of this war, now nearly forgotten on both sides, should serve as a grim lesson for policy makers in both Washington and Beijing. The Korean War was anything but accidental, but miscalculation and miscommunication both extended and broadened the war beyond its necessary boundaries.

Robert Farley is an Senior Lecturer at the Patterson School of Diplomacy and International Commerce. His work includes military doctrine, national security, and maritime affairs. He blogs at Lawyers, Guns and Money and Information Dissemination and The Diplomat. Follow him on Twitter:@drfarls.

This first appeared several years ago and is being reposted due to reader interest.

lol, if you read carefully on what I wrote and what he wrote, his point supported my view.

Let's go through it point by point.

The U.S.-led United Nations offensive into North Korea was thrown back, with the U.S. Army handed its worst defeat since the American Civil War.


Nobody, even I, would say the Invasion into the North Korea did good, they did blunted the war, a disaster perhaps. As I said, I believe the whole invasion to the North is a mistake, which is made solely on MacArthur himself UN force at that point in 1950 are only enough to defend the South (at around 250,000) In Operation Overlord, the invasion is for a front line and it took around 1,250,000 troop from 4 countries to do it. So to invade a whole nation with only 250,000 troop? Macarthur made a gamble, the gamble is that China will not be stupid enough to intervene by throwing the future and the goal of unification, and China is actually stupid enough to throw away both goal and intervene in North Korea, he lost his gamble and UN loses steam in North Korea, however, the most important part is this mistake does not lead to the end of South Korea either, but in turn China loses the chances to get out of the shadow of Civil War quickly and using the surplus men to dominate Taiwan, lead to the next 50 years different in life quality between mainland China and Taiwan, not until Chinese open door policy did change for better, still ,in today term Mainland Chinese on average are not better off than an average Taiwanese.

Memory of the Korean War in the United States is obscured by the looming shadows of World War II and Vietnam

Wasn't this is the line I said EXACTLY? you just quote the first part tho?? But I did say Vietnam War and WW2 overshadow Korean War.

Inside the United States, tension over the collapse of Nationalist China remained high. The Nationalist government possessed an extremely effective public-relations machine in the United States, built around the Soong family’s relationship with Henry Luce. This influential domestic lobby helped push the United States towards both intervention and escalation, while at the same time undercutting the advice of experts who offered words of caution about Beijing’s capabilities and interests.

Yes, and the US know the Chinese have means and way to retake Taiwan at that point. Had China not intervene in North Korea, they would probably put on more pressure using the men and material they did used eventually in Korea to force or routed KMT (As I said so already). That is the big part why MacArthur wanted to make that gamble, because Taiwan mean more than North Korea, I mean on one hand is Unification of your own country, the other one is defending a potential border war that may or may not happen in the future, any sane man would put unification first. It's right for MacArthur to Gamble, because what Chinese did is illogical. Chances are had Korean been done and Chinese Keep its man, high chances is that there will not be US troop in Korean Peninsula because of US-JPN relationship and Taiwan will already be part of China.

On an operational level, advancing U.S. forces paid little heed to warnings of Chinese intervention. The United States failed to understand the importance of the North Korean buffer to Beijing, failed to detect Chinese preparations for intervention, failed to detect Chinese soldiers operating in North Korea and failed to understand the overall strength of the Chinese forces. This lack of caution stemmed from several sources. The U.S. military, having had experience with Chinese Nationalist forces during World War II, had little respect for the capabilities of the PLA,

The fact is, the US know this, but one man not willing to accept the obvious, That's MacArthur, there are many creditable intel from Russia, South Korea and Nationalist Chinese suggesting that troop amass in North East Sector. South Korean patrol found Chinese Battalion camping in the Korean Part of the border, and all the way to the top, they don't believe its creditability. And that did happened a lot (most famously is when all intel point to imminent attack in US soil in the autumn of 2001. Which saying 9/11 is happening, but nobody wanted to believe.

That is indeed an operational error, and who's fault is that? that would be the ground commander's fault not to read the situation clearly. And why is that? Because he think the chance are small because China would want unification more than Korean Border Secure. And wasn't it what I said all along? He made a Gamble, He lost, it's that simple.

For China, the war represents a remarkable victory over imperialism in the face of overwhelming odds
. It introduced the People’s Republic of China to the international system with a (literal) bang.


So? Is there a goal somewhere to say this is an achievement?

You win an overwhelming battle with major casualty, in the end, all your goal is not fulfilled, the war end in draw. now, if China "Against all odds" and repelled the South Korean and UN Force into reunifying Korean Peninsula under the northern banner, that could be called a Pyrrhic Victory, but this is not the case now, is it? The case now is Chinese drop all these men to push the border back toward the old line and cannot go further, this is a Draw, no matter how you say this. And there are no such thing as a Pyrrhic Draw in any sort of achievement. Couple to the fact that China lost their objective in both Operational and Strategic nature by not been able to continue on with the aggressive and basically being banished to the back seat for 20 years, and the inability to reunify China themselves, that mean what Chinese is basically does is they lost 250,000 for a status quo (US lost 38,000)and then they have to regressed in poor, uninhabitable condition for the next 40 years. Well, if you think this is any kind of achievement, then there are something wrong with you.

Again, yes, these people are brave, but bravery is not an achievement in war. You can make movie about it, but it achieve nothing, as I said before. And no, PRC is not introduced in international system after Korean War, it was after Vietnam war when US wanted China to reign in the Vietnamese and force China to open its door. Unless Robert Farley is saying Cultural Revolution that came after the Korean war is putting China into the world spotlight, well, I would have to agree, just not the good spotlight.......And yes, that is with a bang. Bang, the world know how ruthless Mao can get during the revolution, killing up to 50 millions of his own people during Cultural Revolution would most certainly put China, PR into international system with a bang....I don't think anyone would object to it...
 
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India needs to have a cultural revolution like China did in their past. Your nation has talent people but they were being restrained by your cultural
China has changed their culture for the good. But do you need a cultural revolution like the one China had in the 1960s ?
 
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We all know what is China doing, provoking India for a war and then there are many Chinese who are facing issues regarding this over aggression of China which will only lead to destruction. The Dokalam stand off continues since past two months now and Indian army and Chinese army stand just 250 meters apart, prepared and alert for war.

While the Jat regiment and Chinese face each other and wait for any childish things from Chinese, a writer on Quora wrote on China’s aggression and despite of him being Chinese, he hated the move by Chinese communist government.

Someone asked on Quora, “What is going on in the India-China border? Which side is the aggressor?”

Shawn Zhang answered the question and received threats from local Chinese people and police. He wrote,

This answer gives me tremendous pressure. Many Chinese began to dox me. They published a lot of my private information. They also reported this answer to the police. I received indirect warnings from police. Harassment is an act of cowardice. I will continue write for peace and condemn China’s aggression.

Most Chinese don’t even know where Doklam is.

Google Map is blocked in China. There is no other map in China that can show the detailed border line between China, India, and Bhutan.

Media in China never mentioned where Doklam is and where the border line lies. Government never reveals the location. Government only shows a map sketch and tells Chinese that India invaded China.

Although I am a Chinese, I feel I am obligated to tell my fellow Chinese the truth: China entered the territory of Bhutan.

India-china2.png


We can compare google map with most popular map service in China Baidu Map. There is no border line in Baidu Map.
Baidu.jpg


In Google map satellite image, this area is covered with snow. So I use NASA’s satellite image.

dokalam2.jpg


China has occupied Doklam for years. Bhutan does not have the ability to reclaim the land. China and Bhutan have agreed via written agreements of 1988 and 1998 that both countries will maintain peace and the status quo in the region.

standoff.png


Now in recent months, China suddenly broke agreement and wants to build more roads and possibly prepares to occupy more land. So China is clearly the aggressor.

During this standoff, Chinese government withholds the key information and keeps stirring up nationalist sentiment in China. Chinese become angry towards India and clamor for war. This is very dangerous. Provoking war may be at the interest of Chinese Communist government. But war is never the interest of most ordinary Chinese people. This is why I write this answer. I hope Chinese could become more rational, reasonable and willing to seek truth. Only in this way, we can maintain peace with neighbours.

China did the same to Tibet almost five decades before, they entered in Tibet and Dalai Lama faced exile and came to India. They killed millions of Tibetans and did human rights violation to such a big extent.
 
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