China Has Lost Taiwan, and It Knows It

[kris]

Looking at all their puffing and sulking wrt Hong Kong street protests, I seriously doubt that china has ability to take over Taiwan in a 'peaceful' manner

 

[Mista]

In my circle of colleagues, we used to call it brand china. Brand china is why these two- HK and Taiwan, won't assimilate.

Many of the previous generations of Taiwanese identify themselves as Chinese, but as ROC, not PRC.

However as the PRC claims that there is only 1 China and the PRC is the sole government of China, the world slowly comes to the understanding that China refers to the PRC and the PRC refers to China. ROC is nothing but just a name.

But for many young Taiwanese they don't identify with the PRC, and therefore they slowly drift their identification away from China itself, as China=PRC now.

If the PRC really wants to win the hearts of Taiwanese, they could start by admitting that there are 2 legitimate governments of China due to history, put away the differences and work towards reunification. But that's almost impossible as it would undermine the CPC's own legitimacy. We are now stuck in a situation where more and more Taiwanese don't see themselves as Chinese and the PRC threatening military invasion if they declare independence.

This is true to a certain extent of HKers who don't want to identify with the PRC for whatever reasons.

I've wondered how history would play out if the balance of power between the PRC and ROC is more equal. Like North/South Korea or East/West Germany, both sides recognizes that they are the same country and desire to reunify one day.

English subtitles.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

China just got this level of development for barely 5 years, and US and west have been there on the top for 2 hundred years, it takes time for this world to change but it's surely happening fast.

One funny new thing is that now the west and US start to increasingly brag their "soft power", what does it suggest and imply?

Nothing to do with soft power but the power that gives u most money will attract the most people. US having the largest economy plus their friendly migrant policy makes people goes there.

China having one of the strictest migration policy makes near impossible for many foreigners to migrant here but China has a huge population and is not as desperate as US to attract migration.

American soft power was always a part of the conversation for decades upon decades, lol to imagine it's something new. It is why Made in America is still such a vital part of Brand America. I forget, one or both of you came to the US to study because of brand America

The fact you only associate immigration is also telling. There are several other developed nations in the west, rich countries, yet people aspire to be American residents more.

All the money in the world won't make brand China as attractive because nobody aspires for Brand China.

 

[JackTheRipper]

Like they lost Hong Kong in Past ? Lol

 

[LeGenD]

American soft power was always a part of the conversation for decades upon decades, lol to imagine it's something new. It is why Made in America is still such a vital part of Brand America. I forget, one or both of you came to the US to study because of brand America

The fact you only associate immigration is also telling. There are several other developed nations in the west, rich countries, yet people aspire to be American residents more.

All the money in the world won't make brand China as attractive because nobody aspires for Brand China.

What you say is true to large extent but Chinese have potential as well. Huawei is a household name for example.

Nevertheless, Chinese population is already massive so not sure if China even have room to accomodate potential immigrants in large numbers or even interested. Secondly, Chinese all powerful centralized government might intimidate many visitors, let alone potential immigrants.

 

[beijingwalker]

What you say is true to large extent but Chinese have potential as well. Huawei is a household name for example.

Nevertheless, Chinese population is already massive so not sure if China even have room to accomodate potential immigrants in large numbers or even interested. Secondly, Chinese all powerful centralized government might intimidate many visitors, let alone potential immigrants.

Japan is a developed country and doesn't have a communist government, how many foreigners immigrate to Japan? How about South Korea? Immigration is just not part of the culture of this East Asian region.

 

[Beast]

American soft power was always a part of the conversation for decades upon decades, lol to imagine it's something new. It is why Made in America is still such a vital part of Brand America. I forget, one or both of you came to the US to study because of brand America

The fact you only associate immigration is also telling. There are several other developed nations in the west, rich countries, yet people aspire to be American residents more.

All the money in the world won't make brand China as attractive because nobody aspires for Brand China.

Nobody aspire to be American if USA is a dead broke country and very strict migration problem.
Stop kidding yourself.

Many of the previous generations of Taiwanese identify themselves as Chinese, but as ROC, not PRC.

However as the PRC claims that there is only 1 China and the PRC is the sole government of China, the world slowly comes to the understanding that China refers to the PRC and the PRC refers to China. ROC is nothing but just a name.

But for many young Taiwanese they don't identify with the PRC, and therefore they slowly drift their identification away from China itself, as China=PRC now.

If the PRC really wants to win the hearts of Taiwanese, they could start by admitting that there are 2 legitimate governments of China due to history, put away the differences and work towards reunification. But that's almost impossible as it would undermine the CPC's own legitimacy. We are now stuck in a situation where more and more Taiwanese don't see themselves as Chinese and the PRC threatening military invasion if they declare independence.

This is true to a certain extent of HKers who don't want to identify with the PRC for whatever reasons.

I've wondered how history would play out if the balance of power between the PRC and ROC is more equal. Like North/South Korea or East/West Germany, both sides recognizes that they are the same country and desire to reunify one day.

English subtitles.

I dont think having 2 government will undermine PRC leadership in Mainland China. You seriously think KMT still have the capabilities to retake mainland China.

 

[nang2]

Russians also thought they had lost Crimea. Who knows? Sometimes you are surprised when an opportunity falls on your lap.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Russians also though they had lost Crimea. Who knows? Sometimes you are surprised when an opportunity falls on your lap.

I think the 99 years simply made them not recognize the Chinese government (any type BTW) as some entity they should feel allegiance to. Taiwan now at ~70 years and they are going to have the same problem

 

[nang2]

I think the 99 years simply made them not recognize the Chinese government as some entity they should feel allegiance to. Taiwan now at ~70 years and they are going to have the same problem

Then you don't know Chinese history and I don't blame you. 99 years are nothing in China history. The current city called "Beijing" was lost in 936 AD. China only regained the control of this city in 1356 AD. It is still a Chinese city, isn't it?

 

[BL33D]

I would not watch the videos, but I did see you post them often in an attempt to show everything was hunky-dory

The concept of video titles and thumbnails is lost on him.

 

[Mandalorian_CA]

Taiwan and Hong Kong are part of China "period". No need for useless posts.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Then you don't know Chinese history and I don't blame you. 99 years are nothing in China history. The current city called "Beijing" was lost in 936 AD. China only regained the control of this city in 1356 AD. It is still a Chinese city, isn't it?

White Europeans in the US still strongly identify with their particular European land origins but feel absolute zero allegiance whatsoever to the current government that has sovereignty over it. If it was up to them they'd kick out that government and simply let the US make the rules.

Ask somebody in Hong Kong about reunification and they'll say "Sure! Just get rid of the current PRC government".

Ask somebody in Taiwan about reunification and they'll say "Sure! Just get rid of the current PRC government".

Ask somebody in the US about reunification with England and they'll say "Sure! Just get rid of the current British government".

 

[nang2]

White Europeans in the US still strongly identify with their particular European land origins but feel absolute zero allegiance whatsoever to the current government that has sovereignty over it. If it was up to them they'd kick out that government and simply let the US make the rules.

Ask somebody in Hong Kong about reunification and they'll say "Sure! Just get rid of the current PRC government".

Ask somebody in Taiwan about reunification and they'll say "Sure! Just get rid of the current PRC government".

Ask somebody in the US about reunification with England and they'll say "Sure! Just get rid of the current British government".

Everyone can say something that is so easy to say. It means nothing until he puts his blood where his mouth is.

 

[Mista]

You seriously think KMT still have the capabilities to retake mainland China.

Absolutely no, and that's exactly why the ROC is nothing but just a name. Nominally they are still 'China', but we all know that it refers to Taiwan.