China downplays Japan's construction of India's first bullet train project

[Gen Padmanabhan]

How MANY TIMES do I have to tell you? The one we studied and made an offer of $20B is the Delhi-Chennai HSR Corridor. The fuking article in the OP even mentioned that! The ONE that the Japanese won is the Mumbai-Ahmedabad HSR Corridor in which we DID NOT made any offer nor ANYONE in the HSR exporter business. To give you an idea of India HSR plan. There ARE FIVE corridors:

1. Delhi-Chandigarh HSR - Feasibility study by France and would likely won the contract.

2. Delhi-Chennai HSR - Feasiblity study by China and completed with an offer of $20B to build.

3. Chennai-Bengalruru-Myscore HSR - Feasility study to raised to speed by China and would likely won by us.

4. Mumbai-Ahmedabad HSR - Feasibility study by Japan and they got the contract with NO other bidding offer, especially NOT from us. We have NOTHING to do with this corridor.

5. The Diamond Quadrilateral HSR
-Delhi-Mumbai (Plan 1) - Feasibility study by China and local India consortium
- Mumbai-Chennai (Plan 2) - Feasibility study by France and local India consortium
- Delhi-Kolkata (Plan 3) - Feasibility study by Spain and local India consortium.

Again, let the Indian speaks! if they are knowledgeable about their own country infrastructure plan and they should know full detail of what is going on. That is the hope as I said before!

You have a problem understanding the word "Source" and "Reference" and the word "Play Nice" I can say a lot of thing, but without backing it up with facts, its BS or in court, we will call them "hearsay".

Even your fellow Chinese member here and SCMP are saying the Chinese have an offer but was beaten by the Japanese on the Mumbai-Ahmedabad Sector.

And then your claim of 20 Billions for the Delhi-Chennai 2182Km HSR is plainly crazy. Even as you said it was 50/50 and the total is brought up to 40 Billions, you honestly believe While the Japanese offer for 14.6 Billions on a 560km, which totally almost 57 Billions if they were to content with the 2182Km Delhi-Chennai HSR. While the Chinese is offering 40 Billions?? lol Chinese tech is cheap, again, are they that cheap? Just to show you, the bungled Waratah Train set (Just the set) cost 3.6 Billions AUD for it. And the Highly Contested Indonesian HSR contract (730km Jakatar-Surabaya) the Chinese have bid of 55 trillion rupiah (About 4 Billions USD) while the JICA have a bid of 65 trillion rupiah (About 5 Billions USD) and you meant to tell me the Indian HSR difference is 14 Billions?

This was from Joint Statement between India and China in 2014

• The leaders also noted with appreciation the progress achieved in railways cooperation and conclusion of the Memorandum of Understanding and Implementation Plan on Cooperation in Railways. It was agreed that: (i) the two sides will cooperate to identify the technical inputs required to increase speed on the existing railway line from Chennai to Mysore via Bangalore; (ii) the Chinese side will provide training in heavy haul for 100 Indian railway officials; (iii) the two sides will cooperate in areas such as redevelopment of existing railway stations and establishment of a railway university in India; and (iv) the Indian side will actively consider cooperating with the Chinese side on a High Speed Rail project.

And again from May 2015

• The two leaders noted with satisfaction the steps taken and the progress achieved in the Railway sector cooperation including the projects on speed raising on the existing Chennai-Bengaluru-Mysore line, the proposed feasibility studies for the Delhi-Nagpur section of high speed rail link, the station redevelopment planning for Bhubaneswar & Baiyappanahalli, heavy haul transportation training and setting up of a railway university. They welcomed the Action Plan outlining the next steps in the partnership in this key infrastructure sector.

Joint Statement between the Republic of India and the People's Republic of China on Building a Closer Developmental Partnership
Joint Statement between the India and China during Prime Minister's visit to China

I dont know this means contract given.

This is from India France Joint Statement

21. In the field of transport, the Leaders look forward to cooperating in areas such as modernization of the Railways and in high speed and semi-high speed rail projects, in urban transportation and in roads and welcomed the development of the cooperation between Indian and French railways through the agreement between Indian Railways and the French National Railways (SNCF) to co-finance an execution study by SNCF for a semi-high speed project on upgradation of the Delhi-Chandigarh line to 200 kmph and for redevelopment of Ambala & Ludhiana Railways Stations. The two sides noted with satisfaction the successful completion of a business development study for the Mumbai-Ahmedabad high speed corridor.

India-France Joint Statement during the visit of Prime Minister to France (April 9-11, 2015)

You have a problem understanding the word "Source" and "Reference" and the word "Play Nice" I can say a lot of thing, but without backing it up with facts, its BS or in court, we will call them "hearsay".

Even your fellow Chinese member here and SCMP are saying the Chinese have an offer but was beaten by the Japanese on the Mumbai-Ahmedabad Sector.

And then your claim of 20 Billions for the Delhi-Chennai 2182Km HSR is plainly crazy. Even as you said it was 50/50 and the total is brought up to 40 Billions, you honestly believe While the Japanese offer for 14.6 Billions on a 560km, which totally almost 57 Billions if they were to content with the 2182Km Delhi-Chennai HSR. While the Chinese is offering 40 Billions?? lol Chinese tech is cheap, again, are they that cheap? Just to show you, the bungled Waratah Train set (Just the set) cost 3.6 Billions AUD for it. And the Highly Contested Indonesian HSR contract (730km Jakatar-Surabaya) the Chinese have bid of 55 trillion rupiah (About 4 Billions USD) while the JICA have a bid of 65 trillion rupiah (About 5 Billions USD) and you meant to tell me the Indian HSR difference is 14 Billions?

And this is from India- Japan Joint statement

• The two Prime Ministers welcomed the signing of the Memorandum of Cooperation on introduction of Japan’s High Speed Railways (HSR) technologies (the Shinkansen system) to Mumbai-Ahmedabad route. Prime Minister Modi appreciated Japan’s consideration of providing highly concessional yen loan for the HSR on Mumbai-Ahmedabad route. Both sides will explore further strengthening of their partnership in high speed railways, which is a high technology area having potential to transform India’s transportation sector.

• The two Prime Ministers welcomed the steady progress to realise 3.5 trillion yen of public and private financing to India in five years under the "Japan-India Investment Promotion Partnership” announced during the last annual summit meeting.

• They also welcomed the progress in the flagship projects such as the Western Dedicated Freight Corridor (DFC), and reaffirmed the determination to expedite the Delhi-Mumbai Industrial Corridor (DMIC) projects. The two Prime Ministers further concurred to take the Chennai Bengaluru Industrial Corridor (CBIC) project to the next stage of concrete implementation including by utilising ODA loan schemes and other facility measures. Indian side expressed a hope to attract US $ 5.5 billion of investment and other support.
• The two Prime Ministers recognised the invaluable role played by Japan’s ODA in broadening, deepening and strengthening bilateral relations. Appreciating that India is one of the largest recipients of Japan’s ODA, Prime Minister Modi thanked the people of Japan for their contribution to the building of social and physical infrastructure in India that is key to the country’s development and modernisation. The two sides expressed their expectation that the total commitment of Japanese ODA yen loan to India in FY 2015 may reach around 400 billion yen, the highest ever provided to India, and concurred to accelerate their respective efforts with a view to achieving this goal.
  • Prime Minister Modi welcomed the Japanese ODA loans of about 100 billion yen for the metro projects both in Chennai and Ahmedabad.
  • Prime Minister Abe expressed Japan’s intention to provide ODA loans for the improvement of road network connectivity in northeastern states of India, the peripheral ring road surrounding Bengaluru, and the horticulture irrigation in Jharkhand.
  • Prime Minister Modi welcomed ongoing surveys regarding Mumbai Trans Harbour Link and the modernisation of ship recycling yards in Gujarat, and an expected survey for Tuticorin Outer Harbour.

Joint Statement on India and Japan Vision 2025: Special Strategic and Global Partnership Working Together for Peace and Prosperity of the Indo-Pacific Region and the World(December 12, 2015)

This is enough to compare the difference, and where the future contracts going to awarded.

For the sake of commonality, and keeping the cost low, now its impossible to choose Chinese HSR.

 

[DRDO KALI 10000]

China will not be interested in helping India build a HSR. We will love to see a competitor being weak. Japanese HSR export is a failure in Taiwan as the HSR management goes bankrupt. We will love to see the same thing happen in India

China HSR is the way to go, low cost, high efficient and cost effective. Meaning the HSR will be a win win situtation for both consumer and operator. There's reason why China HSR is able to win Turkey, Macedonia, UK, Indonesia, Russia and Sweden contract. Japanese HSR is just like Sony Bravia TV, over price and yet do not offer better quality and better function. It is bound to fail.

Do you know Delhi Metro ? I think looking at your mental condition you dont know, its extremely successful and now in state of being Implemented in 10 - 12 different cities also exported to many other countries through consultation by Delhi Metro, same will going to happen for HSR.

"China will not be interested in helping India build a HSR."
Hello ! china also tried for this contact but kicked out from ring due to poor bidding and will again come into ring to test its luck, hope this time with better term and conditions otherwise will again get kick on its backyard.


"China HSR is the way to go, low cost, high efficient and cost effective. Meaning the HSR will be a win win situtation for both consumer and operator"
Unecessary bagging will not help, We know chinese quality.

China will only help in industries widely available, like highly specialise export. It will depend case to case basic. Like the Delhi Metro, it is an industries many can do it. So might as well the money goes into our pocket. But HSR is a different beast. Only a few selected can do it.

You mean to say delhi Metro is Chinese ?

 

[Place Of Space]

Do you know Delhi Metro ? I think looking at your mental condition you dont know, its extremely successful and now in state of being Implemented in 10 - 12 different cities also exported to many other countries through consultation by Delhi Metro, same will going to happen for HSR.

"China will not be interested in helping India build a HSR."
Hello ! china also tried for this contact but kicked out from ring due to poor bidding and will again come into ring to test its luck, hope this time with better term and conditions otherwise will again get kick on its backyard.


"China HSR is the way to go, low cost, high efficient and cost effective. Meaning the HSR will be a win win situtation for both consumer and operator"
Unecessary bagging will not help, We know chinese quality.


You mean to say delhi Metro is Chinese ?

Hey, boss, about Chinese quality, I have someting to say. Chinese quality in train, rail, ships, rockets, laptops, smart phones, air-candiationers etc, are very good. I am fed up with Chinese shoes, I like to buy foreign shoes, that's ture.

 

[DRDO KALI 10000]

Btw, I want to make sure the Indian understands these things..

1. The Japan finance term, their loan specially is based on Yen currency. While our finance term we offer to Indonesia and Thailand are USD dollar. That's why 2% USD loan is more favorable than a 0.1% Japanese Yen loan.

2. We didn't lower our bid because why should we? Our guarantee of HSR operation is much faster and we have more experience in building all kinds of terrain. We also provider faster service. As you know, with fast service, you pay more.

3. We didn't offer good finance term because unlike other country, India got money (like our Nihon friend just said).. so you should pay for it rather than us risking our money to finance your HSR.

4. The risk of India HSR investment is enormous due to red tape, indiscipline, and also lack of seriousness.

I like to correct 2 things
1. " We didn't lower our bid because why should we?"
In bidding there is no 2nd chance, Japs win due to better bidding terms THEN CHINESE as far as Indian Authority concern.

2. "The risk of India HSR investment is enormous due to red tape, indiscipline, and also lack of seriousness."
So, still, why are you trying for other even much bigger HSR contacts twice and thrice of present contact with finance ?
I hope next time you will find china also offering India financing at ~"ZERO" Rate . With no guarantee to win.

TALK LOGICALLY.

Hey, boss, about Chinese quality, I have someting to say. Chinese quality in train, rail, ships, rockets, laptops, smart phones, air-candiationers etc, are very good. I am fed up with Chinese shoes, I like to buy foreign shoes, that's ture.

First Laptops, smart phones etc are made in china but they are manufactured by reputed MNC's with proper quality checks and no way compromise on quality.
About chinese companies, you can easily compromise on quality thats why its called allover in world CHEAP = CHINESE.

Look I have no problem with China, In fact I am very big admire of its development. And also for India-China relationship buildup, hope next project won by chinese. But I show you, your real weaknesses "Quality Compromise".
In metro Field I can give you 1 examples from India.
Chinese Coaches
'State of the art' Mumbai Metro suffers leakage due to rain in first month | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

China already exported trains and built railway in India, this is not the first time also not the last time ... it's obviously China CRH train also will appear in India. Is there something so funny ?

CORRECT !!

But some other chinese guys got frustrated by ending as looser today and giving again looser reasons why they lost . 0

 

[Rasengan]

what I see is you begging for a project in India meanwhile you can keep your made in china low quality predictions with yourself. Come and rant when you do get any project in India....not now .

Its amusing to witness the outcome of an Indian preaching the doctrine that Chinese products are low in quality, when the trade deficit is 34% in favor towards China. In simplified terms this means that the Indian consumer market loves to purchase Chinese goods Their is huge difference between tendering for a specific project and having a Prime Minister of your country begging Xi Jinping to invest in India. You are so proud in winning investment from Japan...therefore did the Lok Sabha pass the land reform bill, gst bill and the labour bill? I guess the answer is no....and like the Raphael deal most infrastructure projects will face the problem of red tape since Congress will put obstacles along the way In the next five years the Chinese Government will invest $435 billion on its railway industry

 

[CHN Bamboo]

I like to correct 2 things
1. " We didn't lower our bid because why should we?"
In bidding there is no 2nd chance, Japs win due to better bidding terms THEN CHINESE as far as Indian Authority concern.

2. "The risk of India HSR investment is enormous due to red tape, indiscipline, and also lack of seriousness."
So, still, why are you trying for other even much bigger HSR contacts twice and thrice of present contact with finance ?
I hope next time you will find china also offering India financing at ~"ZERO" Rate . With no guarantee to win.

TALK LOGICALLY.


First Laptops, smart phones etc are made in china but they are manufactured by reputed MNC's with proper quality checks and no way compromise on quality.
About chinese companies, you can easily compromise on quality thats why its called allover in world CHEAP = CHINESE.

Look I have no problem with China, In fact I am very big admire of its development. And also for India-China relationship buildup, hope next project won by chinese. But I show you, your real weaknesses "Quality Compromise".
In metro Field I can give you 1 examples from India.
Chinese Coaches
'State of the art' Mumbai Metro suffers leakage due to rain in first month | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis
View attachment 279438


CORRECT !!

But some other chinese guys got frustrated by ending as looser today and giving again looser reasons why they lost . 0

I dont think smart phones are all cheap,at least Huawei sells phones,my mom and dad bought and they cost 500$+ My mom said this phone is much better than the Samsung Galaxy she used before.
My family bought some made in China laptops,the most expensive one costs 2500$ while the foreigh brand desktop almost drove us mad and it costs less than 2000$.BTW,my family's first desktop is made in China,and the TV too.Therefore I usually wonder why you guys say goods Made in China are of low quality.Maybe due to the different price and location.
Huawei in Japan 华为力压日本手机厂商，公开市场占有率排第一

 

[DRDO KALI 10000]

I dont think smart phones are all cheap,at least Huawei sells phones,my mom and dad bought and they cost 500$+ My mom said this phone is much better than the Samsung Galaxy she used before.
My family bought some made in China laptops,the most expensive one costs 2500$ while the foreigh brand desktop almost drove us mad and it costs less than 2000$.BTW,my family's first desktop is made in China,and the TV too.Therefore I usually wonder why you guys say goods Made in China are of low quality.Maybe due to the different price and location.
Huawei in Japan 华为力压日本手机厂商，公开市场占有率排第一

I support your statement . But my point was different here.

 

[Ryuzaki]

I dont think smart phones are all cheap,at least Huawei sells phones,my mom and dad bought and they cost 500$+ My mom said this phone is much better than the Samsung Galaxy she used before.
My family bought some made in China laptops,the most expensive one costs 2500$ while the foreigh brand desktop almost drove us mad and it costs less than 2000$.BTW,my family's first desktop is made in China,and the TV too.Therefore I usually wonder why you guys say goods Made in China are of low quality.Maybe due to the different price and location.
Huawei in Japan 华为力压日本手机厂商，公开市场占有率排第一

Chinese low-end knockoffs in the past decade used to be of low quality-but things have really improved in recent years.I personally own a Xiaomi phone.
And when it comes to heavy engineering ,made-in-China items have always been of high quality.

 

[CHN Bamboo]

Chinese low-end knockoffs in the past decade used to be of low quality-but things have really improved in recent years.I personally own a Xiaomi phone.
And when it comes to heavy engineering ,made-in-China items have always been of high quality.

Thank you

 

[DRDO KALI 10000]

Chinese low-end knockoffs in the past decade used to be of low quality-but things have really improved in recent years.I personally own a Xiaomi phone.
And when it comes to heavy engineering ,made-in-China items have always been of high quality.

Bytheway I am using Lenovo Mobile its not good, Company changed it, still not Happy.

Actually BIGGEST problem with Brand China is in the effort of slash cost they did compromise with quality, for Value for money its good no debate.

Whereas Brands like samsang they will stop (cost slashing) the point quality starts getting deteriorate (No quality compromise) but with chinese products you cant expect this, this is the reason even there biggest names have no faith but masses buy them because of value for money or cheep , cheapest in market .

Chinese high Price products are of good quality.

 

[Aepsilons]

@Ryuzaki , you're right that there have been improvements in Chinese technology, provided, they have been explosed to lean , clean, processing technology and have adopted precision technology from other prolific East Asian economic powers. The benefits of hosting over 4,000 Japanese firms for the past 30 years. And Japan's comprehensive activity in China's industrial revolution in recent history.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

Rich China begging to poor india, are you sure you are not taking drugs?

are you sure you are not blind ?

Its amusing to witness the outcome of an Indian preaching the doctrine that Chinese products are low in quality, when the trade deficit is 34% in favor towards China. In simplified terms this means that the Indian consumer market loves to purchase Chinese goods Their is huge difference between tendering for a specific project and having a Prime Minister of your country begging Xi Jinping to invest in India. You are so proud in winning investment from Japan...therefore did the Lok Sabha pass the land reform bill, gst bill and the labour bill? I guess the answer is no....and like the Raphael deal most infrastructure projects will face the problem of red tape since Congress will put obstacles along the way In the next five years the Chinese Government will invest $435 billion on its railway industry

Trade deficit doesnt prove your products are superior.. your products sell because they are cheap in price.. they are just use and throw and that's why you see people buying stuff in bulk.. because its cheap price . secondly China would not invest in India without any profit.. its business so both India and china are looking for profit.. so dont tell me China is investing because India asked them to.. if china will invest it will also earn profit.. so take it as a business and not any favour. so next time tell me when you win a contract in India instead of boasting now about the infrastructure project in your own country.. till then keep looking news channels for more news on Indian bills in Parliament .

I am usually called wumao by some people who have mental sickness,in fact they call everyone who pro government wumao.
Some Indian/viet in PDF also call many Chinese wumao(in weibo or some forum),however most Chinese in PDF lead a wealthy life and have other jobs,at least much better than some Indian in PDF
You guys are so arrogant
Indians call us beggers???
I can't believe my eyes.

people who call us arrogant, we call them Fuddus .. fuddu is a term used for people with divine powers who already know in a forum which members are leading a wealthy life and which members are poor

 

[ahojunk]

.....
And when it comes to heavy engineering ,made-in-China items have always been of high quality.

.....
Chinese high Price products are of good quality.

Reading through the forum, my impression is that Indians think that products made in China equates to poor quality.

So, I am surprised to see there is a small minority of Indians who do not think the same way.

 

[Place Of Space]

I like to correct 2 things
1. " We didn't lower our bid because why should we?"
In bidding there is no 2nd chance, Japs win due to better bidding terms THEN CHINESE as far as Indian Authority concern.

2. "The risk of India HSR investment is enormous due to red tape, indiscipline, and also lack of seriousness."
So, still, why are you trying for other even much bigger HSR contacts twice and thrice of present contact with finance ?
I hope next time you will find china also offering India financing at ~"ZERO" Rate . With no guarantee to win.

TALK LOGICALLY.


First Laptops, smart phones etc are made in china but they are manufactured by reputed MNC's with proper quality checks and no way compromise on quality.
About chinese companies, you can easily compromise on quality thats why its called allover in world CHEAP = CHINESE.

Look I have no problem with China, In fact I am very big admire of its development. And also for India-China relationship buildup, hope next project won by chinese. But I show you, your real weaknesses "Quality Compromise".
In metro Field I can give you 1 examples from India.
Chinese Coaches
'State of the art' Mumbai Metro suffers leakage due to rain in first month | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis
View attachment 279438


CORRECT !!

But some other chinese guys got frustrated by ending as looser today and giving again looser reasons why they lost . 0

Had they made any further official explanation or investigation of the coach leakage? The article is almost empty of content, speak nothing out.

Laptops, Lenovo; smart phones, Huawei, XiaoMi etc are made in China and they themselves are MNC. For example, Lenovo has three research and development centres in Beijing, Tokyo and Raleigh(USA); has 7 sub-companies in Europe and America, has several joint-venture business or acquisitions with IBM, Moto, NEC, Medion (Germany). In some fields, we need to refresh the views.

 

[Tiqiu]

@DRDO KALI 10000

Don't be mistaken, most Chinese are frustrated by the very notion of helping India develop its infrastructure, not by loosing the contract to the Japanese. This makes perfect sense if you bring geopolitics into the equation. India and Japan both see each others the best fit for counter China, therefore there is nothing China can do to stop both counties going closer. The worst thing China does is to compete with Japan in India for building infrastructure. Africa and Pakistan are China's true strategic partner therefore China should continue to put its resources to these places. It is also make sense from business point of view, improved infrastructure means better security and lower economic operating costs, and that will in turn increase the value of other Chinese investments already in those countries, be it mining, real estate or agriculture. Chinese company does not have any ownership of such in India.


As to the Chinese made leaking train photo you posted, a simple headline can be very misleading since it gave an impression that those newly made train compartments could not stand for the heavy rain. Actually the whole story is one of the air conditioning duct caused the water leakage and the problem was rectified shortly afterwards. From Indian news coverage it was the project manager, the reliance group, not the Chinese, got the main blame. A simple watering test before commission would prevent this problem.(read leaking-metro-trains-justified-mumbaikars-angry)