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China Doesn't Belong in the BRICS

India will catch up with China eventually how? care to give some credible numbers

simple your growth rate will be sustained for a decade but ours will be sustained for 4 decades,,owing to the demographic dividend..ur country used it well and started 2 decades prior to us..we've just began our journey now and we have ample time..so even growing at a megre 6% average will do..besides our economy is already 4th largest by ppp with 4.7 trillion(2011)dollars next to ur 12.3 trillion dollars(2011)..our rupee is 54 times smaller than a dollar..which gives us a greater advantage to u in exports with the largest working young population and with so less value of rupee our economy grows faster in future.with a trade surplus our rupee strengthens while our GDP(exchange rates improve)..our remittances are $70 billion the largest in the world and increasing every year..our reforms are still in progress..implementing those like GAAR or GST would contribute to additional 1-2% growth to our current growth rate..govt policies like switching over from thermal to nuclear and renewable source of energies can reduce our current account deficit and foreign reserves to a large extent.guess got ur numbers..so trust me...INDIA CATHING UP WITH CHINA IS NOT AN IMPOSSIBLE TASK
 
Agreed that China doesn't belong to BRICS when it comes to the difference of $$$$$.

But this is the question that China has to ask itself as to on which side it wants to see itself - As a Isolated Superpower or as a Superpower who has friendly relations with all??

China has $8 trillion economy, but it still need a POWER BLOCK like BRICS to make it's voice heard in International circles, that, till now is only used to hear the voice of the US.

Don't forget CHINA is PREDICTED to surpass US Post-2016, but it is the BRICS as a BLOCK that has already surpassed US.

US with $15 trillion economy itself doesn't take decisions in Isolation weather it comes to Economic (G-8 or G-20) or Military (NATO), So why should China be different??

As it is Western + East Asian Countries are getting worried of China rise, if it still goes all alone, China will commit the biggest blunder & everyone will start questioning the CONDUCT of China in the New World Order.
 
simple your growth rate will be sustained for a decade but ours will be sustained for 4 decades,,owing to the demographic dividend..ur country used it well and started 2 decades prior to us..we've just began our journey now and we have ample time..so even growing at a megre 6% average will do..besides our economy is already 4th largest by ppp with 4.7 trillion(2011)dollars next to ur 12.3 trillion dollars(2011)..our rupee is 54 times smaller than a dollar..which gives us a greater advantage to u in exports with the largest working young population and with so less value of rupee our economy grows faster in future.with a trade surplus our rupee strengthens while our GDP(exchange rates improve)..our remittances are $70 billion the largest in the world and increasing every year..our reforms are still in progress..implementing those like GAAR or GST would contribute to additional 1-2% growth to our current growth rate..govt policies like switching over from thermal to nuclear and renewable source of energies can reduce our current account deficit and foreign reserves to a large extent.guess got ur numbers..so trust me...INDIA CATHING UP WITH CHINA IS NOT AN IMPOSSIBLE TASK

completely and utter bs , if anything we open up china to the world 2 decades later than india, under mao no private enterprise is allowed, only when deng came along we begin trading with the rest of the world .
 
completely and utter bs , if anything we open up china to the world 2 decades later than india, under mao no private enterprise is allowed, only when deng came along we begin trading with the rest of the world .

india's reforms started in 1991...do u know when did china's reforms start??in 1970s.besides that statement was more in reference with the demographic dividend
 
Not much propaganda about BRICS in China itself. Not sure if it is well-known in India, Russia, Brazil and S. Africa or not. These 5 emerging economies have some common shared benefits but comparing to other group in the world, the shared benefits are less. Definitely not comparable with US and Europe. The BRICS development bank sounds good. But its very difficult to manage.

As mentioned in the article, China's economy and foreign reserve is larger than the other four, who should be the largest share in the Bank ? Other institutions like world bank, Asia development bank is lead by US, Islamic bank is backed by oil. I would be happy to the bank being set, but leave a question for its future.

How does other nationals view this BRICS group ? Do you guys think it will have brilliant future ?
 
Point one : The profits won't be the same

Point two: I am talking about manufacturing sector in which India had a chance and India can also do what China has done.

The economic development trend indicate just the opposite:
GDP (ppp) composition in 2012:
China:
total:123800 agriculture: 12008.6 (9.7%) industry: 57690.8 (46.6%) service: 54100 (43.7%)
India:
total: 47350 agriculture: 8049.5 (17%) industry: 8523 (18%) service: 30777.5 (65%)

India is already leaning towards service instead of production (after all, service require less capital investment) and the service percentage of GDP is only getting bigger for India in the past few years while China has an opposite trend.
I honestly doubt India can "also do what China has done". You are talking about two countries with completely different culture, ethic, social structure and history. There are several very important component of the Chinese method that are not present in India:

1. Powerful and efficient central government: The main engine of Chinese growth is a central government that generate consist economic policies and decisions that are not designed to line corporate executives' pocket. Since Chinese government does not depend on open voting, it does not need financial support from major corporation to fund expensive election campaigns. As a result, there is no need for Chinese leaders to cater to the need of wealth businessmen. In China, the main body that scrutinize the leadership is people's assembly and the CCP party itself. Both entities consist of individual from all aspects of the social. This is why for Chinese leaders, the top priority is to get the entire nation to grow rather than just corporations.
2. Unified culture: While China has about 56 ethnic groups, the mandarin Chinese and the Han Chinese culture is dominant to the point that there really isn't any difficulty for different ethnic groups to communicate, work and live together. For example, if you live and grow up in Heilongjiang province (northeast most province of China) and went to work in Guangxi (a Southwestern province of China) despite you have crossed thousands of kilometers, the language, work habit and culture remain essentially unchanged. The same can not be said about India, where even the paper bills have to be print in 38 different languages.
3. High education level: Chinese are obsessed with education. There is really no other way to describe it. Throughout Chinese history, if a family has some left over money or resource, the first they will think is "how can I get better education for my children". Indeed, nowadays, about half of the freshly graduated engineering students of the entire world are from China. Sure, you can find an average individual that ask for less salary in India, Africa and Southeast Asia, but if you try to hire an individual with a degree in engineering, the Indian or African are going to ask a lot more than the Chinese.
4. Work Habits: Chinese are hard working. While there are a lot of hard working people around the world, the Chinese mentality is quite different from other people. For example, if an individual's salary is suddenly doubled, a westerner will think "I only need to work half of the hours to make the same amount of money", but the Chinese will think "now I can make twice as money".
There are many other things. For example, in Mao's era, the Chinese managed to build a complete industry base and support infrastructure. As a result, when China opened its market to the world, its industries are already past the fledgling stage and ready to compete.
The Chinese are always fond of saying everyone must find and walk there own path. It is certainly possible for India to find its own way, but I sincerely doubt it can replicate China's success by "also do what China has done"

india's reforms started in 1991...do u know when did china's reforms start??in 1970s.besides that statement was more in reference with the demographic dividend

Wrong, the Chinese reforms can be traced back to 1949, where the transformation from a feudal-esque agricultural society to an industrial society begun. Such transformation is indicated by the massive infrastructure building, drastically improved education level and drastically reduced death rate. For example, highest natural death rate in the entire PRC history is just under 2% in 1958, it is significantly lower than the average death rate in the years between 1912 and 1949. By 1976, the annual death rate has dropped to about 0.7%. All those started in 1949, the 80s is simply opening up the market to the word and emergency of the private sector.
 
Not much propaganda about BRICS in China itself. Not sure if it is well-known in India, Russia, Brazil and S. Africa or not. These 5 emerging economies have some common shared benefits but comparing to other group in the world, the shared benefits are less. Definitely not comparable with US and Europe. The BRICS development bank sounds good. But its very difficult to manage.

As mentioned in the article, China's economy and foreign reserve is larger than the other four, who should be the largest share in the Bank ? Other institutions like world bank, Asia development bank is lead by US, Islamic bank is backed by oil. I would be happy to the bank being set, but leave a question for its future.

How does other nationals view this BRICS group ? Do you guys think it will have brilliant future ?

I see a huge potential in this, we all have had our tiffs with Western controlled institutions - they practically make the laws and govern over it and it's high time we break those shackles now so at least in a decade we could be at par and have a parallel system in place. A common bank is a good idea to start with - I am not a great fan of having a common voice and common strategic leanings right now - there's much to be achieved at the present moment.
 
Wrong, the Chinese reforms can be traced back to 1949, where the transformation from a feudal-esque agricultural society to an industrial society begun. Such transformation is indicated by the massive infrastructure building, drastically improved education level and drastically reduced death rate. For example, highest natural death rate in the entire PRC history is just under 2% in 1958, it is significantly lower than the average death rate in the years between 1912 and 1949. By 1976, the annual death rate has dropped to about 0.7%. All those started in 1949, the 80s is simply opening up the market to the word and emergency of the private sector.

what has death rate got to do with economic reforms ?i was discussing abt economic reforms with the person i quoted?please read my post before quoting my text.china up to 1970s is a communist type of economy during which debate rose in ur country regarding capitalism eventually u shifted from communist to a mixed economy.
 
The economic development trend indicate just the opposite:
GDP (ppp) composition in 2012:
China:
total:123800 agriculture: 12008.6 (9.7%) industry: 57690.8 (46.6%) service: 54100 (43.7%)
India:
total: 47350 agriculture: 8049.5 (17%) industry: 8523 (18%) service: 30777.5 (65%)

India is already leaning towards service instead of production (after all, service require less capital investment) and the service percentage of GDP is only getting bigger for India in the past few years while China has an opposite trend.
I honestly doubt India can "also do what China has done". You are talking about two countries with completely different culture, ethic, social structure and history. There are several very important component of the Chinese method that are not present in India:

1. Powerful and efficient central government: The main engine of Chinese growth is a central government that generate consist economic policies and decisions that are not designed to line corporate executives' pocket. Since Chinese government does not depend on open voting, it does not need financial support from major corporation to fund expensive election campaigns. As a result, there is no need for Chinese leaders to cater to the need of wealth businessmen. In China, the main body that scrutinize the leadership is people's assembly and the CCP party itself. Both entities consist of individual from all aspects of the social. This is why for Chinese leaders, the top priority is to get the entire nation to grow rather than just corporations.
2. Unified culture: While China has about 56 ethnic groups, the mandarin Chinese and the Han Chinese culture is dominant to the point that there really isn't any difficulty for different ethnic groups to communicate, work and live together. For example, if you live and grow up in Heilongjiang province (northeast most province of China) and went to work in Guangxi (a Southwestern province of China) despite you have crossed thousands of kilometers, the language, work habit and culture remain essentially unchanged. The same can not be said about India, where even the paper bills have to be print in 38 different languages.
3. High education level: Chinese are obsessed with education. There is really no other way to describe it. Throughout Chinese history, if a family has some left over money or resource, the first they will think is "how can I get better education for my children". Indeed, nowadays, about half of the freshly graduated engineering students of the entire world are from China. Sure, you can find an average individual that ask for less salary in India, Africa and Southeast Asia, but if you try to hire an individual with a degree in engineering, the Indian or African are going to ask a lot more than the Chinese.
4. Work Habits: Chinese are hard working. While there are a lot of hard working people around the world, the Chinese mentality is quite different from other people. For example, if an individual's salary is suddenly doubled, a westerner will think "I only need to work half of the hours to make the same amount of money", but the Chinese will think "now I can make twice as money".
There are many other things. For example, in Mao's era, the Chinese managed to build a complete industry base and support infrastructure. As a result, when China opened its market to the world, its industries are already past the fledgling stage and ready to compete.
The Chinese are always fond of saying everyone must find and walk there own path. It is certainly possible for India to find its own way, but I sincerely doubt it can replicate China's success by "also do what China has done"

ur post is rather generalized dont u think??just because india concentrated on service sector up to now doesnt mean that it can go in to manufacturing.we still got human resources and potential to be a manufacturing hub.ur not the first one who have done this americans did this before you and europeans did this long before them.so its just a matter of time.nothing will be as it is u see..
ur saying authoritarain govt supported ur economy. it might be but at the same time ur govt lacks accountability.they dont need to answer anyone even if their policies are against public.in india there are instances where govts collapsed when the prices of onions and potatoes have rised..why do u think our growth rate has decreased from 9 to 5 in just 2 years??our gives subsidies on fuel,food grains,fertilizers and every goddamn essential commodities.and yet our average decadal growth rate in 7.9%.which is why every year 1-2 crore of population is lifted up from povertydemocracy is a more sustainable way of development which reaches masses

yes india has diversities both geographically and ethnically but we're living like this for thousands of yeaers now so this is not something new for us.why do u think indians are very adaptable and can go and sustain almost anytype of conditions??in every country possible in this world u'll find considerable number of indians

u seem to be talking with a half knowledge regarding india..nowadays every person here ensures educations in india our govt has passed right to education act in india.there are many instances where a rikshaw pullers daughter becomes a charterd accountant etc...india produces about a million engineers every year.

yes chinese might be hard working in nature doest mean we're any less..and for the rest of ur post look at my post #16
 
And Mr 11 from China goes to an African country Tanzania and makes a big speech on equality. But it seems some superior breed of Chinese [perhaps having a Japanese genetics] present in this forum, see China in different league..!!
 
I can see this turning into another China vs India thread. Indian members please ignore this @ChinaToday he is a certified Chinese troll. Even bigger than HongWu :)
 
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Tbh what does the BRICS collection actually do together? In reality very little. Apart from projected growth figures these nations have very little in common- not language, not geography, not industry etc etc the actual utility of this group is questionable and with the likes of S.Africa,Brazil and now Russia showing serious signs on the economic front (their only unifying factor) the revel fe of this group becomes even less.

Let's wait till it happens first, before making such statements. :tup:

As of IMF data from 2012:

China - $8.25 trillion growing at 7.8%

Brazil - $2.42 trillion growing at 0.6%

Russia - $1.95 trillion growing at 3%

India - $1.94 trillion growing at 4.5%

So we still belong in BRICS.
Where's S.Africa buddy?!

I think there is a solid argument for strengthening bilateral ties between India and China however. Whichever way you look at it these are going to be the two dominant power houses within most of our lifetimes and the last thing any human needs is for these two not to get along.

I for one am not interested in a Cold War 2.0.
 
india's reforms started in 1991...do u know when did china's reforms start??in 1970s.besides that statement was more in reference with the demographic dividend

Reform started in late 1979, there was only a handful of special economic zones during the 80s. Ie, the Pudong side of Shanghai (where you see all the sky scrapers today) did not reform until 1990. The oriental pearl tower for example was only built in 1995 and Shanghai residents could not buy stocks until 1992 - 1993.
 
competition between countries is good but, only with the Rise of BOTH India AND China can we say that Asia has truly arrived.

I think it's stupid to look at Chinese economy and say it has arrived. Did you know the US only has 300 million people while Japan 100? Would 12 people narrowly beating up 3 or 1 be bragging about it? China is at the stage where it must realize that unless you blow Japan and America out the water GDP wise and increase Per capital at least 2.5-3 times, you can't even say China is close to developed.

Having said that, Chinese's aging problem is no problem, do you know how many Chinese are there internationally? Do you know how many would come back given the right condition? Do you know how many non Chinese would come to China to work if the conditions are right?

China with it's education system, while flawed, will create a generation of people that have a background in science and other fields and will lay the ground work for the next generation to ditch manufacturing and truly enter information age.

Bottom line, India and China should be both compared and not compared. It's like China is a basketball player and India a Cricket Player, while you can argue which player is better, the sports are completely different and thus can't be directly compared stat for stat.
 
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