China deploys Su-27 fighters in Tibet

[Brahmos_2]

bro, in close combat su27 is superior... more maneuverable and speedy than su30mki (not comparing with armaments and long range dogfight)

Su27:

Maximum speed: Mach 2.35 (2,500 km/h, 1,550 mph) at altitude
Range: 3,530 km (2,070 mi) at altitude; (1,340 km / 800 mi at sea level)
Service ceiling: 19,000 m (62,523 ft)
Rate of climb: 300 m/s (54,000 ft/min)
Wing loading: 371 kg/m² (76 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 1.07


Su30mki:


Maximum speed: Mach 1.9 (2,120 km/h or 1,320 mph[79]) at altitude; 1,350 km/h, 839 mph near ground level
Range: 3,000 km (1,620 nmi) at altitude; (1,270 km, 690 nmi near ground level; with no external fuel tanks)
Endurance: 3.75 hrs (up to 10 hrs with in-flight refueling)
Service ceiling: 17,300 m (56,800 ft)
Rate of climb: >300 m/s (>45,275 ft/min)
Wing loading: 401 kg/m² (82.3 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 1.0

My friend, you are wrong. there are two features that su-27 doesn't have & su-30MKI have, a thrust vectoring nozzle & canards. Both are critical features which provides a greater contribution to the maneuverability of an aircraft.

Also, there are about 12 variants of su-30. In that, su-30MKI is the most advanced
Sukhoi Su-30 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Brahmos_2]

LCA is still in development.

M-2000 is worthless, which is why India is looking to replace them via the Tejas

Mig-29 has a worse service record than the Su-27. They both faced off during the Ethiopia-Eritrea war, and the Su-27 crushed the Mig-29.

Su-30, China has them too, it's called the Su-30MKK

Rafale is pretty much a dead deal, as the deal is on hold until further notice (i.e indefinitely). Even if it goes through, it'll be a significantly lower number than what India promised it would buy.

Su-30MKK & Su-30MKI are different. Su-30MKI is the most advanced among the 12 variants of su-30. Also Su-30MKI can function as a mini-AWACS as a director or command post for other aircraft.

Sukhoi Su-30 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sukhoi Su-30MKI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[BDforever]

My friend, you are wrong. there are two features that su-27 doesn't have & su-30MKI have, a thrust vectoring nozzle & canards. Both are critical features which provides a greater contribution to the maneuverability of an aircraft.

Also, there are about 12 variants of su-30. In that, su-30MKI is the most advanced
Sukhoi Su-30 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you missed most important part of maneuverability of an aircraft, Thrust/weight ratio. Greater the ratio, better maneuverability

Su30mki:
Thrust/weight: 1.0

Su27:
Thrust/weight: 1.07

 

[Hellraiser007]

you missed most important part of maneuverability of an aircraft, Thrust/weight ratio. Greater the ratio, better maneuverability

Su30mki:
Thrust/weight: 1.0

Su27:
Thrust/weight: 1.07

Thrust vectoring is in a different league

Su 27 do not match with su 30 MKI which has superior avionoics.

 

[BDforever]

Thrust vectoring is in a different league

Su 27 do not match with su 30 MKI which has superior avionoics.

Thrust vectoring efficiency depends on thrust/weight ratio

 

[Goodbye!]

you missed most important part of maneuverability of an aircraft, Thrust/weight ratio. Greater the ratio, better maneuverability

Thats a deal breaker simply because TWR can give you better acceleration/climb rate, but certainly not better maneuverability. You can maneuver much better a slow speed.

In any case these are just token deployments, what makes us think that if there is war the entire military juggernaut will not set into motion.

The only nation to win a war between these two giants is the one that can avoid it.

 

[Beerbal]

Why should we afraid of su-27 when we are having more maneuverable & advanced su-30mki??

Bcoz China has 2000+ MiG21. 1000+ 4.5/4 Gen fighter, while we have just 200+... We must worry, We must have at least 500+ LCA and 600+ 4/4.5 gen additional fighters..

 

[Hellraiser007]

Thrust vectoring efficiency depends on thrust/weight ratio

It is complex engineering.

During dog fights Thrust vetored jets have advantage, no question about that.

Secondly Chinese jets are at disadvantage since they cannot take off with max pay load and weight from Tibet plateau.

 

[BDforever]

Thats a deal breaker simply because TWR can give you better acceleration/climb rate, but certainly not better maneuverability. You can maneuver much better a slow speed.

In any case these are just token deployments, what makes us think that if there is war the entire military juggernaut will not set into motion.

The only nation to win a war between these two giants is the one that can avoid it.

the thrust-to-weight ratio of a combat aircraft is a good indicator of the manoeuvrability of the aircraft.
source: Thrust-to-weight ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hellraiser007]

the thrust-to-weight ratio of a combat aircraft is a good indicator of the manoeuvrability of the aircraft.
source: Thrust-to-weight ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not again , Buddy Thrust vectoring is a different concept altogether.

It is like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Brahmos_2]

you missed most important part of maneuverability of an aircraft, Thrust/weight ratio. Greater the ratio, better maneuverability

Su30mki:
Thrust/weight: 1.0

Su27:
Thrust/weight: 1.07

Exactly, thrust/weight ratio is an important part of maneuverability. But T/W ratio is not the ultimate factor which determines the maneuverability. The presence of canards & thrust vectoring nozzle makes su-30MKI more moneuverable than su-27.

If you still have any doubts, lets compare T/W ratios of Su-30MKI & HAL Tejas,

HAL Tejas


Thrust/weight: 1.07



Su-30MKI

Thrust/weight: 1.0


So as per your observation, Tejas must be more maneuverable than Su-30MKI...Will you agree??

Hope you got the idea

It is complex engineering.

During dog fights Thrust vetored jets have advantage, no question about that.

Secondly Chinese jets are at disadvantage since they cannot take off with max pay load and weight from Tibet plateau.

That was a brilliant observation

 

[BDforever]

deleted......................

 

[Goodbye!]

the thrust-to-weight ratio of a combat aircraft is a good indicator of the manoeuvrability of the aircraft.
source: Thrust-to-weight ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How you use your brains is also a good indicator of how long you will live. They are just thumb rules. Takes much more to win a battle.

Like @Hellraiser007 pointed out these published TWR can be compared only if the planes launch from the same height above sea level. If the air is rarefied like in Tibet then you will need a lot more T to put the same W in air.

 

[Windjammer]

It is complex engineering.

During dog fights Thrust vetored jets have advantage, no question about that.

Secondly Chinese jets are at disadvantage since they cannot take off with max pay load and weight from Tibet plateau.

You missed this part in the news item.

It is advantage China since Gonkar is at an altitude of 16,000 feet. The fighters can take off only with less weapons payload or fuel. China has probably solved the problem by stationing an aerial refuelling aircraft at Gonkar or nearby. This will increase the range and endurance of the Su-27s.

Hence, the aircraft can take off with less fuel and more weapon pay load and take on more fuel after getting airborne.

 

[Hellraiser007]

You missed this part in the news item.


Hence, the aircraft can take off with less fuel and more weapon pay load and take on more fuel after getting airborne.

Still they are at a disadvantage in the sense , air to air refueling takes some time, if detected Indian response can be quick.