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China denies visa to top general in Indian Occupied Kashmir

That is what you do for your true friend like Pakistan. You support their policies. Does China has beef with the J&K situation? helll no! but it concerns Pakistan so we support them. If India wants to be an allies it will enjoy the same support.

The relationship between Pakistan and China is very close. India now has an opportunity to create that kind of relationship with the US. I hope India does not blow it.
 
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First tell me what does China mean by Disupted..??? Does it mean India and Pak or does it mean India and China.

IF first then it is gross interference in India's affairs.

If second, then being part of Akshai Chin makes China to Claim whole J and K as disputed b/w India and China...! isnt that ridiculous.

But if the case is 2nd(whole J and K disputed b/w India and China and that is why China refued visa) then Surely as AP(equivalnt to Akshai) is disputed b/w India and China so that makes whole of Tibet a disputed area between India and China.
You cant deny it then.

China is not a party to the J & K controlled by the General and by parts controlled by Pak . That is squarely b/w India and Pak.

Surely a very very retrogade and foolish step by China. INDIA has done the best thing by cancelling the military contacts.

I believe that China recognize the disputed area of J&K belongs to pakistan and their policy reflects that.
 
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A common thread that runs thru India's foreign policy ir respective of which Govt is in New Delhi is that its always been India 1st and consistent.

India has thankfully realised that there is no better way to make & retain friends than a strong economy matched by muscle power . We are working on both.
 
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This move is nothing else but unnecessary needling. Why did China suddenly feel the urge to do this? As the news report stated, A General of the Eastern Command (covering Arunachal pradesh) had already visited China earlier. Why did China not have a problem with a General of AP but one of J&K? Beats me.

And whats even more perplexing is that in retaliation India has canceled a course for Chinese officials at the National Defense College. That means military relation were going on smoothly uptill now. So what really grabbed China's throat so much that it stooped to such cheap tactics?
 
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Let us do its dissection further. Why China is becoming possessive about Kashmir.

But before pasting this News Article i would like to Tag one words.

Sovereignty.

China's Discreet Hold on Pakistan's Northern Borderlands
While the world focuses on the flood-ravaged Indus River valley, a quiet geopolitical crisis is unfolding in the Himalayan borderlands of northern Pakistan, where Islamabad is handing over de facto control of the strategic Gilgit-Baltistan region in the northwest corner of disputed Kashmir to China.

The entire ***************** western portion of Kashmir stretching from Gilgit in the north to Azad (Free) Kashmir in the south is closed to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency. But reports from a variety of foreign intelligence sources, Pakistani journalists and Pakistani human rights workers reveal two important new developments in Gilgit-Baltistan: a simmering rebellion against Pakistani rule and the influx of an estimated 7,000 to 11,000 soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army.

China wants a grip on the region to assure unfettered road and rail access to the Gulf through Pakistan. It takes 16 to 25 days for Chinese oil tankers to reach the Gulf. When high-speed rail and road links through Gilgit and Baltistan are completed, China will be able to transport cargo from Eastern China to the new Chinese-built Pakistani naval bases at Gwadar, Pasni and Ormara, just east of the Gulf, within 48 hours.

Many of the P.L.A. soldiers entering Gilgit-Baltistan are expected to work on the railroad. Some are extending the Karakoram Highway, built to link China’s Sinkiang Province with Pakistan. Others are working on dams, expressways and other projects.

Mystery surrounds the construction of 22 tunnels in secret locations where Pakistanis are barred. Tunnels would be necessary for a projected gas pipeline from Iran to China that would cross the Himalayas through Gilgit. But they could also be used for missile storage sites.

Until recently, the P.L.A. construction crews lived in temporary encampments and went home after completing their assignments. Now they are building big residential enclaves clearly designed for a long-term presence.

What is happening in the region matters to Washington for two reasons. Coupled with its support for the Taliban, Islamabad’s collusion in facilitating China’s access to the Gulf makes clear that Pakistan is not a U.S. “ally.” Equally important, the nascent revolt in the Gilgit-Baltistan region is a reminder that Kashmiri demands for autonomy on both sides of the cease-fire line would have to be addressed in a settlement.

Media attention has exposed the repression of the insurgency in the Indian-ruled Kashmir Valley. But if reporters could get into the Gilgit-Baltistan region and Azad Kashmir, they would find widespread, brutally-suppressed local movements for democratic rights and regional autonomy.

When the British partitioned South Asia in 1947, the maharajah who ruled Kashmir, including Gilgit and Baltistan, acceded to India. This set off intermittent conflict that ended with Indian control of the Kashmir Valley, the establishment of Pakistan-sponsored Free Kashmir in western Kashmir, and Pakistan’s occupation of Gilgit and Baltistan, where Sunni jihadi groups allied with the Pakistan Army have systematically terrorized the local Shiite Muslims.

Gilgit and Baltistan are in effect under military rule. Democratic activists there want a legislature and other institutions without restrictions like the ones imposed on Free Kashmir, where the elected legislature controls only 4 out of 56 subjects covered in the state constitution. The rest are under the jurisdiction of a “Kashmir Council” appointed by the president of Pakistan.

India gives more power to the state government in Srinagar; elections there are widely regarded as fair, and open discussion of demands for autonomy is permitted. But the Pakistan-abetted insurgency in the Kashmir Valley has added to tensions between Indian occupation forces and an assertive population seeking greater of local autonomy.

The United States is uniquely situated to play a moderating role in Kashmir, given its growing economic and military ties with India and Pakistan’s aid dependence on Washington. Such a role should be limited to quiet diplomacy. Washington should press New Delhi to resume autonomy negotiations with Kashmiri separatists. Success would put pressure on Islamabad for comparable concessions in Free Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. In Pakistan, Washington should focus on getting Islamabad to stop aiding the insurgency in the Kashmir Valley and to give New Delhi a formal commitment that it will not annex Gilgit and Baltistan.

Precisely because the Gilgit-Baltistan region is so important to China, the United States, India and Pakistan should work together to make sure that it is not overwhelmed, like Tibet, by the Chinese behemoth.

Selig S. Harrison is director of the Asia Program at the Center for International Policy and a former South Asia bureau chief of The Washington Post.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/op...ison.html?_r=1
 
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hunn...

Time and chances are running out for China to make India as a friend before India open the flood gates of joining anti China powers. Its better for China to be an Allie of India to enjoy the same support which she has got till date irrespective of its cunning attitude against India. Something is better than nothing....it will be no way out for China if she opted for later, i.e nothing from India.

I think its time for India to join the western alliance. India needs technology and political support that only the US is capable of providing.
 
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I think its time for India to join the western alliance. India needs technology and political support that only the US is capable of providing.

I am sure you'll agree that given China's progress, India can access comparable technology and at a lesser cost from China. But this attitude from China and needless cheap tactics aren't helping. Clearly, China could have avoided this incident.
 
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This move is nothing else but unnecessary needling. Why did China suddenly feel the urge to do this? As the news report stated, A General of the Eastern Command (covering Arunachal pradesh) had already visited China earlier. Why did China not have a problem with a General of AP but one of J&K? Beats me.

And whats even more perplexing is that in retaliation India has canceled a course for Chinese officials at the National Defense College. That means military relation were going on smoothly uptill now. So what really grabbed China's throat so much that it stooped to such cheap tactics?

In reality, I do not believe that China really care about its "disputed" land it claimed on India. Its obvious that is the case because it retreated from this area in the 1962 war. That retreat after the military victory showed that it does not care for the disputed area in the Eastern sector. That is why it would welcare the commander of that district to China.

On the other hand, China want to support Pakistan and its claim to J & K. Its support for Pakistan is much more so than its own claim for AP for the reason I suggested in the last paragraph. That is why China is denying the visa. If India offer to send the military commander of AP to China, he would get the visa.
 
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I think its time for India to join the western alliance. India needs technology and political support that only the US is capable of providing.

If china continues to provoke unnecessarily then we will have no choice but lean towards US a little more..
Lets see how alliance of India-ruusia and west materializes..
 
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Balls to you....

That's what our limp-noodle politicians should have been doing right from the beginning. I have been saying this all along and so did defence minister George Fernandes once upon a time that china is India's enemy no 1. Make a NATO-like alliance with countries surrounding china. Many like Indonesia,Japan,Australia,Taiwan,Singapore,Vietnam will be glad to join. And GOI should declare Tibet as disputed. But I dont think GOI has the guts.

Forget about all these other countries. The one country that India must join is US. Without US, india would have no real relationship with all these other countries as all these countries look to US for leadership in the Asia Pacific region. I'm glad you have the common sense to see that India need friends in the area and the only true option is the US. :usflag:
 
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In reality, I do not believe that China really care about its "disputed" land it claimed on India. Its obvious that is the case because it retreated from this area in the 1962 war. That retreat after the military victory showed that it does not care for the disputed area in the Eastern sector. That is why it would welcare the commander of that district to China.

On the other hand, China want to support Pakistan and its claim to J & K. Its support for Pakistan is much more so than its own claim for AP for the reason I suggested in the last paragraph. That is why China is denying the visa. If India offer to send the military commander of AP to China, he would get the visa.

That defies logic. It would be naive to think that China and for that matter any country would place its ally's interest over its own. If what you say had been the case, then we would have surely seen a lot more Chinese help for Pakistan during the '71 war. Chinese forces didnt even fire a shot across the Mcmahon Line in defense of their beleaguered Pakistani friends. And China also didnt come to Pakistan's aid during Kargil. I distinctly remember a Chinese statement asking all parties to exercise restraint and respect the LoC. In effect asking India to not to escalate the war and asking Pakistan to call back its intruders.

And as the news report said, a General from AP had already visited China without any visa hassles. I think this is nothing but a false show of support and assurances for China's Pakistani friends that we wont let the current surge in separatist movement in Kashmir go unnoticed. China is trying to do its small part in internationalizing the Kashmir dispute. Fair enough, if its doing this however small and petty gesture for a friend. But I hope China has figured out the cost of such actions. Now that things between the two nations were looking good, we could have done without this incident. There were plans of state visits and this certainly screws up things. Militarily too things were at an all time high with joint exercises planned and study courses for Chinese military officers at India Defence College. So peace and good relations shouldnt have been kept hostage to such a stupid move.
 
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If china continues to provoke unnecessarily then we will have no choice but lean towards US a little more..
Lets see how alliance of India-ruusia and west materializes..

Tell you what, India has some leverage now to join the western camp. So India is sitting on the fence and wavering between the western democracies vs the China/Russia dictatorship. It doesn't help that India had long relationship with Russia. But as Russia gets closer and closer to China, India's relationshp with Russia would also start to evolve. (lets assume Russia would certainly to get close to China over time now, some of you might not agree with me even though its crystal clear but for the sake of argument lets assume that.) India's options would become less. It would be force to either go into the Russia/China camp or the western alliance.

If for some reason its rejected by the Russia/China camp because China make unacceptable demands on India, which is likely given the hostility between China and India. It would need to come begging to join the US western alliance like Poland and Baltic countries in the 90s. At that time, US can make more demands on India and India get no more hands to play.
 
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Chill out, y'all.
I think one has to understand the strategic aims of the Indian and Chinese more than anything else.

The state of Jammu and Kashmir, if you realize, has immense strategic value. It is a gateway from central Asia to Pakistan/India and hence the sea-lanes of the Indian Ocean. The stakes are bigger than most of us can imagine.

For a start, I've never believed that Pakistanis really sympathize with Kashmiris. They don't give a ***'s a$$ if every one of them dies at the hand of Indian soldiers, as long as India gets egg on it's face. They don't speak a word about Ughiurs (my Chinese friends will resent this reference, I'm sure)..............It's all about '71!!!!

The Chinese, on the other hand, really need control over that region because it offers an alternative land route to receiving resources as opposed to the sea route that, again, passes through India's region of influence. IMHO one of the biggest reasons for the China-Pakistan love affair is this strategically important region. Everyone has a stake there, Pakistan's is based on revenge/loss of face- India's on Ego/Strategy and China's purely based on strategy.

Moreover, IMO the Chinese are passively aggressive as a nation(as opposed to being remarkably balanced as individuals)-their long-term strategy is of throwing out a firecracker like this once in a while and seeing how India reacts, and then deciding on what to do next. It's more about reminding the other that one still has leverage in a topic.

Tibet is a lost cause for India- it was a strategic blunder to recognize Tibet as a part of China without solving the border dispute, but it's too late for that. Almost. India still has some leverage as it hosts the Dalai Lama- something that it uses very occasionally and subtly.

Last I heard that China was reconsidering the decision to deny the visa, and that conciliatory noises were being made from both sides. In a week, life will go on and the great game resumes.
 
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Chill out, y'all.
I think one has to understand the strategic aims of the Indian and Chinese more than anything else.

The state of Jammu and Kashmir, if you realize, has immense strategic value. It is a gateway from central Asia to Pakistan/India and hence the sea-lanes of the Indian Ocean. The stakes are bigger than most of us can imagine.

Moreover, IMO the Chinese are passively aggressive as a nation(as opposed to being remarkably balanced as individuals)-their long-term strategy is of throwing out a firecracker like this once in a while and seeing how India reacts, and then deciding on what to do next. It's more about reminding the other that one still has leverage in a topic.

Last I heard that China was reconsidering the decision to deny the visa, and that conciliatory noises were being made from both sides. In a week, life will go on and the great game resumes.

Good analysis. :cheers:
 
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