China cozying up with Dalai

[Lux de Veritas]

Your views on Indianized peoples in southeast asia are incorrect. India has no natural political or ethnic links to southeast asian indianized peoples. The Indianized peoples just received Indian influence in culture, language (sanskrit loanwords) and religion. India was never able to militarily project its power in the region.

Champa, Sulu, Malacca and Brunei were allies of the Ming dynasty. They were first Indianized then Islamicized. Vietnam then invaded Champa and massacred the Cham. There are less than 200,000 Cham in Vietnam today. Some fled to Cambodia and others fled to China where they became Utsuls in Hainan. Vietnam also took the Mekong Delta from Cambodia.

Thailand, Cambodia and Laos are all Indianized states. But they don't have any "natural" affinity for India or feel close to Indians.

I am a little overboard on this.

There is a caste system as vestige of Hindic culture in Bali. There may be some caste system in parts of SE Asia.

When Hindic civilization spread, it brought caste system in many case like Nepal, NE India. The spread of Vietnam south could have purge many aspect of Indian civilization caste system. Just like the spread of Islam contain hinduism and caste system in Bali Indonesia. I do not like caste system. So I would rather prefer the spread of Islam or Sinitic over Indianize kingdom.

But Indianize kingdom may not support India. However I do feel that if India is a more reasonable big brother, she will have a strong centrifugal force on Indianize kingdom.

Just like Korea, Japan, Vietnam is strongly attracted to China.

A Sinicize Indo China will bring us a stronger ally. Why not?

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Your views on Indianized peoples in southeast asia are incorrect. India has no natural political or ethnic links to southeast asian indianized peoples. The Indianized peoples just received Indian influence in culture, script, language (sanskrit loanwords) and religion. They are racially and ethnically different from Indians and their languages are not indo aryan or dravidian. India was never able to militarily project its power in the region.

Champa, Sulu, Malacca and Brunei were allies of the Ming dynasty. They were first Indianized then Islamicized. Vietnam then invaded Champa and massacred the Cham. There are less than 200,000 Cham in Vietnam today. Some fled to Cambodia and others fled to China where they became Utsuls in Hainan. Vietnam also took the Mekong Delta from Cambodia.

Thailand, Cambodia and Laos are all Indianized states. But they don't have any "natural" affinity for India or feel close to Indians.



Alot of Miao and Yao minority people look like me. And?

You are entitled your opinions.

I would rather prefer a strong vietnam over Hindic. Even Bali caste system is too much. Thanks to Vietnam and Islam, now caste system is not in all SE Asia but just Bali.

I been China many times, especially Tibet, Yunnan. I feel all Yunnan minorities like similar to me. And I certainly feel more comfy with them, especially they are very sinicized.

 

[Ahiska]

@Lux de Veritas

I notice you have some of the same thinking as @sayina2012 and @FlowerSummer regarding Manchus and other northern peoples.

After a sliver of northern China fell to the Khitan Liao, the Han population in the northern districts including Beijing stayed in place and were loyal to the Liao. One prominent family who served in the Liao dynasty were of Han origin.

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When the Khitan royal family under Yelu Dashi fled to central asia and established the Kara Khitai or Kara Khitan Khanate, they introduced Confucianism, Chinese culture and language to the region.

When the Qing took over China, even though their royal family is Manchu, they appointed a Ming Imperial descendant as a Marquis and kept this hereditary title for the Ming dynasty imperial family descendants. They also kept the same Duke Yansheng title for Confucius descendants.

In fact even when the Mongols invaded China and establish the Yuan dynasty, they did not try to exterminate the Song Imperial family. Zhao Mengfu was a Song descendant and painted during the Yuan dynasty and the Yuan did not try to kill off the many other collateral branches of the Song imperial family. Only the main line directly descended from the last emperors died during the conquest.

If the Qing were "evil" and intended on destroying China they would murder every noble family of China and not grant titles to the Ming imperial family, Confucius's lineage or continue to promote Confucianism.

Sparing the preceding royal family after overthrowing them was common in China. If the King and his sons were killed then the collateral branches (patrilineal cousins) would be granted titles and allowed to live.

@Ahiska is it common in other civilizations to spare the royal family after overthrowing them? Or more common to exterminate them?

Most of the time its not common because the new emperors or the new emperor family intermarried with the other family so they would be the strongest and most influental family.

 

[Nan Yang]

I don't understand why many Chinese have issues with the Dalai Lama. In my university, we learned that during Mao's reign, he told the Dalai Lama about communism and how it provides equality. Dalai Lama thought it was a good idea at the time and agreed to merge Tibet with China until he's seen how Mao treated his country and now he wants Tibet back, I don't see the big problem in just giving Tibet back.

That is what they try to sell you in the West. In reality, Dalai Lama is all about preserveing his God King status and his Golden throne. Do more research. Did you check out the 17pt agreement he sign with Mao ? This agreement preserve his status. That is why he signed it and peacefully reunite Tibet with China.



Article 4 -The central authorities will not alter the existing political system in Tibet. The central authorities also will not alter the established status, functions and powers of the Dalai Lama. Officials of various ranks shall hold office as usual.


Yes, Mao also wanted him to implement land reform and political reform and to free the serfs which made up over 95% of the Tibetans. He did none.

Then after a visit to India, he was influenced by the British, India and the CIA and after he returned to Tibet he rebelled against China. The rest is history.

In the end the communists goes down in history as the ones that freed the Serfs not Dalai Lama.

Land given to the Serfs


Burning of the Serf bonds and freeing themselves.

 

[Wholegrain]

You are entitled your opinions.

I would rather prefer a strong vietnam over Hindic. Even Bali caste system is too much. Thanks to Vietnam and Islam, now caste system is not in all SE Asia but just Bali.

I been China many times, especially Tibet, Yunnan. I feel all Yunnan minorities like similar to me. And I certainly feel more comfy with them, especially they are very sinicized.

Champa was a stronger ally of China than Vietnam. It was on its way to becoming fully Islamicized before Vietnam decided to destroy them. There are descendants of Cham Muslims called Utsuls living in Hainan where they were given refuge by China.

I agree about caste system. The Philippines was on its way to becoming Islamicized but the Spanish invaded and killed the Muslim King at Manila. The Spanish implemented their own racist system like the caste, with classification like "mestizo" and "indio" in the Philippines. Many Filipinos are pro west and like western things and ideas because of Spanish and American rule.

 

[EastSea]

Champa was a stronger ally of China than Vietnam. It was on its way to becoming fully Islamicized before Vietnam decided to destroy them. There are descendants of Cham Muslims called Utsuls living in Hainan where they were given refuge by China.

Champa liked to annexe DaiViet to Champa, three time Champa invaded in Thanglong-Hanoi, but at the end Champa was loser. It was Champa's failure.

It is reported that in North-West area from Hanoi, where people speak Vietnamese without full intonations, there are people are Cham in native. Evan Vietnamese folksongs in North Vietnam "Quan Ho" is in fluence of Cham musik.

The Minangkabau people in Sumatra Indonesia believe that one of their ancestors came from Champa; he was called Harimau Campo (Tiger of Champa)[citation needed]. Harimau Campo, together with Datuak Suri Dirajo (one of Minangkabau founding fathers), Kambiang Hutan, and Anjiang Mualim created the basic concept of the Minangkabau martial art, silek (silat). Evidence gathered from linguistic studies around Aceh confirms that a very strong Champan cultural influence existed in Indonesia; this is indicated by the use of the chamic or Aceh–Chamic language as the main language in the coastal districts of Aceh Besar, Pidie, Bireun, Aceh Utara, Kota Lhokseumawe, Aceh Timur, Aceh Barat, Aceh Barat Daya, and Aceh Jaya.

Champa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia