China confirms export of eight submarines to Pakistan

[Hassan Guy]

As I have alluded earlier the current steel manufacturing base is incapable to produce the parts that you are mentioning. There is the opportunity to work with the Chinese to gain the knowledge which in itself is a bonus.
As I keep repeating nd you keep ignoring the specs are unknown to you and to me. So at this juncture any speculation is useless. If I remember correctly there was a lot more that I wrote on the subject. Any views on those things?
A

Obviously currently it doesn't exist, the steel manufacturing plant would need to be established.
Before we built the JF-17 there was no industrial base to produce the fighter, that had to be built.

And we have already worked with the French I don't understand why we need to work with the Chinese now. Did we gain nothing from the last project?

Can you repeat what you said in bullet points in your last points, so I could address them.

 

[araz]

Obviously currently it doesn't exist, the steel manufacturing plant would need to be established.
Before we built the JF-17 there was no industrial base to produce the fighter, that had to be built.

And we have already worked with the French I don't understand why we need to work with the Chinese now. Did we gain nothing from the last project?

Can you repeat what you said in bullet points in your last points, so I could address them.

I have already dealt with all your points. Please read my posts again.
A

@Rashid Mahmood . Would it be possible for you to elaborate on what facilities for steel manufacturing we have at the ship yard and whether the newer facilities will add such capability.
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[Cool_Soldier]

Still many things are hidden and will be disclosed with time.
delivery of time could be earlier as speculated.
weapons systems should not be 100% disclose.

 

[Hassan Guy]

I have already dealt with all your points. Please read my posts again.
A

No you haven't

 

[araz]

Hassan.
I am not going to indulge in the"yes you did and no you did not" debate. If yoh read post #88 I have highlighted why indegenous ventures are problematic and what are the difficulties in establishing a specialized Steel plant. Please read it carefully.
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[Hassan Guy]

Hassan.
I am not going to indulge in the"yes you did and no you did not" debate. If yoh read post #88 I have highlighted why indegenous ventures are problematic and what are the difficulties in establishing a specialized Steel plant. Please read it carefully.
A

well, we should probably establish that plant - If the north koreans and iranians can do it, can't be that hard.

 

[araz]

well, we should probably establish that plant - If the north koreans and iranians can do it, can't be that hard.

That is another 4 billion dollars if someone will sell you the plant. Then you do the research to develop nonmagnetic steel and then learn to cut it in shape for the hull. The research alone as I said will set you back 5 to 10 yrs. So a decade down the line you are 5 billion over spent and no product on hand.
The U214 first unit had immense problems and had to have intensive repairs. So if you encounter teething problems you can kiss another 100- 300 million goodbye. How is that for planning?
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[Hassan Guy]

That is another 4 billion dollars if someone will sell you the plant. Then you do the research to develop nonmagnetic steel and then learn to cut it in shape for the hull. The research alone as I said will set you back 5 to 10 yrs. So a decade down the line you are 5 billion over spent and no product on hand.
The U214 first unit had immense problems and had to have intensive repairs. So if you encounter teething problems you can kiss another 100- 300 million goodbye. How is that for planning?
A

We could have gotten assistance to deal with these problems. Most probably from China.
This would speed the development time and lower the costs.

 

[The Accountant]

Brother why the submarine deal signed in 2015 but construction not yet started .... i think the reason is there has to be some very special design requirements from Pakistan which needs time ... an entierly new design more enhanced then current export model chinese offerred ...

What are your opinion ??

 

[araz]

We could have gotten assistance to deal with these problems. Most probably from China.
This would speed the development time and lower the costs.

Which is exactly what we are doing.
A

Brother why the submarine deal signed in 2015 but construction not yet started .... i think the reason is there has to be some very special design requirements from Pakistan which needs time ... an entierly new design more enhanced then current export model chinese offerred ...

What are your opinion ??

Between the signing of the deal and the appearance of the first vessel we are talking 48 to 60 months. So that is why we have the time scale. The Pakistani shipyards are going to be updated nd the work will take upto 2017. The Chinese order books are currently full, which is why there might be a delay plus it maybe that PN has asked for specific changes which might need additional work.
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[Tameem]

Minister for Defence Production Rana Tanveer Hussain, to a question about steps taken to enhance defence production in the country, said many steps had been taken in this regard.

He revealed that construction of four new generation AIP submarines for PN with technical collaboration of China under transfer of technology would start soon.

http://nation.com.pk/national/16-Dec-2016/hmc-arrears-to-be-cleared-soon-na-told

 

[Hassan Guy]

Which is exactly what we are doing.
A

No, we are buying Chinese submarines off the shelf, and licence building the others.

Even North Korea and Iran are producing their own. You are overestimating the difficulty and costs.

 

[Aryzin]

Hello everyone, forgive my ignorance in naval technology but as far as I know Pakistan already builds Agosta subs. Why buy Chinese subs? I would think french submarine technology is pretty good.

 

[araz]

No, we are buying Chinese submarines off the shelf, and licence building the others.

Even North Korea and Iran are producing their own. You are overestimating the difficulty and costs.

OK!! So if we are buying off the shelf item can you enlighten me about the specs of the Subs. Also can you provide a link to where in Pakistan we produce non magetic steel suitable for use in a submarine?
We can discuss furhter once you have answered the queries.
A

 

[Hassan Guy]

OK!! So if we are buying off the shelf item can you enlighten me about the specs of the Subs. Also can you provide a link to where in Pakistan we produce non magetic steel suitable for use in a submarine?
We can discuss furhter once you have answered the queries.
A

Most sources say its the S-20
....we don't produce non-magnetic steel - but if the investment is made that can be done