China Civil Aviation, AVIC (MA600) & COMAC (ARJ21/C919/C929)

[Makarena]

would love to see more info and pics on that

 

[Deino]

Reportedly the final inspection for certificate of first flight took place and that report notes that still another high speed taxiing with front landing gear up is required ... .

 

[yusheng]

 

[Imran Khan]

one of the great thing happen in China by Chinese minds.

 

[Deino]

Thank You @yusheng ... You really made my day !

 

[Deino]

http://news.carnoc.com/list/400/400453.html


4月23日国产大飞机C919将进行高滑抬前轮试验

民航资源网2017年4月22日消息：根据民航局空中交通网的公告，4月23日08:30至11:00，C919飞机在上海浦东机场进行高滑抬前轮试验，受此影响，浦东机场通行能力预计下降70%左右。

目前C919大型客机首架机已经通过了首飞放飞评审，并于近日完成了第3次高速滑行测试。在明天的高滑抬前轮实验后，C919很快将会迎来首飞。

Translation of the highlighted text:

According to CAAC, C919 will conduct high speed taxing test with front landing gear off ground between 08:30 AM to 11:00 AM on April 23rd at Pudong airport.

After the test on April 23rd, C919 will conduct its first flight any time soon.

 

[yusheng]

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Looks just like Airbus plane

Are the engines also made in China ?

Looks very sharp from inside

 

[艹艹艹]

 

[samsara]

Looks just like Airbus plane

Are the engines also made in China ?

Looks very sharp from inside

The Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC) is using the new LEAP-1C Integrated Propulsion System engine (a high-bypass turbofan engine, successor to the best-selling CFM56) from CFM International, a 50/50 joint company between the France's Safran Aircraft Engines (formerly known as Snecma) and the USA's GE Aviation (a division of General Electric). This engine is a superior rival to the Pratt & Whitney PW1000G in the single-aisle jetliner market. See 'Safran in China'

 

[JSCh]

 

[patero]

The Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC) is using the new LEAP-1C Integrated Propulsion System engine (a high-bypass turbofan engine, successor to the best-selling CFM56) from CFM International, a 50/50 joint company between the France's Safran Aircraft Engines (formerly known as Snecma) and the USA's GE Aviation (a division of General Electric). This engine is a superior rival to the Pratt & Whitney PW1000G in the single-aisle jetliner market. See 'Safran in China'

I'm not sure about other factors, but wouldn't the PW1000gs higher bypass ratio of 12.5 to 1 make it more fuel efficient than the LEAP-1C with an 11 to 1 ratio? And the PW1133g and 1135g also have more thrust than the LEAP-1C (max 33,000 lbs and 35,000 lbs compared to LEAP-1Cs 30,000 lb max).

I'm not an aircraft engineer and don't fully understand how to evaluate a jet engine, but I would argue these are two extremely important parameters.

Still the LEAP-1C is a great engine. Analysis I have read seems to indicate though that the C919 and C929 will struggle to compete with comparable Airbus and Boeing models for cost efficiency. Assuming this is true, other than the engines what other factors might affect the comparative performance of the C919?

 

[samsara]

I'm not sure about other factors, but wouldn't the PW1000gs higher bypass ratio of 12.5 to 1 make it more fuel efficient than the LEAP-1C with an 11 to 1 ratio? And the PW1133g and 1135g also have more thrust than the LEAP-1C (max 33,000 lbs and 35,000 lbs compared to LEAP-1Cs 30,000 lb max).

I'm not an aircraft engineer and don't fully understand how to evaluate a jet engine, but I would argue these are two extremely important parameters.

Still the LEAP-1C is a great engine. Analysis I have read seems to indicate though that the C919 and C929 will struggle to compete with comparable Airbus and Boeing models for cost efficiency. Assuming this is true, other than the engines what other factors might affect the comparative performance of the C919?

I ain't an aircraft engineer either thus not able to answer your question about the higher bypass ratio/fuel efficiency matter. But I just guess --provided your inference is sound-- there's possibility that Safran as well as the GE are the more willing parties to conduct businesses with China [than the PW]. Both Safran and GE have been operating lots of business lines in China for long period... have good partnerships, hint: just read at the 'Safran in China' link above for some idea on how much both sides are engaged in many types of cooperation. I know GE also has lots of investments in China too.

You're right the competition in passenger airliner jet will be tough, but in no way it's tougher than the aerospace industry. Of course COMAC realizes that from the outset. But fortunately China's huge domestic market alone will provide lots of sale orders for the home-built aircraft for many years to come. Also the strategic benefits of being capable to produce the big passenger aircraft in the long run certainly outweigh the sole consideration of the simple cost-benefit calculations. Absolutely do not think the prolonged reliance over the duopoly Boeing-Airbus is anything healthy for any major power!

One step at a time. Just think on China's industrial power progresses over decades, it certainly has the competitive capability [over time], as it has been showing repeatedly over years that once it puts enough focus and pour in resources in some particular field, at the end it will excel at the corresponding field [though it may take some time to arrive at that stage]. For sure, never begin then never arrive...

As regarding the wide-body COMAC C929, it is a JOINT PROJECT between the COMAC AND Russia's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC). The aircraft is scheduled to conduct first flight in 2023 and to be introduced three years later.

Too early to comment on the C929 right now; but enough to say, one should have faith in the combined power and technological prowess of the two major powers in this field.
Once again, the strategic benefits in the long run outweigh the sole consideration of the simple monetary calculations in such an important sector like this big passenger aircraft. Think as well the possible spin-off benefits and the related research efforts of having such domestic aircraft industry.

ONE STEP AT A TIME
yet steadily makes significant progress over time

 

[jhungary]

I'm not sure about other factors, but wouldn't the PW1000gs higher bypass ratio of 12.5 to 1 make it more fuel efficient than the LEAP-1C with an 11 to 1 ratio? And the PW1133g and 1135g also have more thrust than the LEAP-1C (max 33,000 lbs and 35,000 lbs compared to LEAP-1Cs 30,000 lb max).

I'm not an aircraft engineer and don't fully understand how to evaluate a jet engine, but I would argue these are two extremely important parameters.

Still the LEAP-1C is a great engine. Analysis I have read seems to indicate though that the C919 and C929 will struggle to compete with comparable Airbus and Boeing models for cost efficiency. Assuming this is true, other than the engines what other factors might affect the comparative performance of the C919?

It is not true to say LEAF engine out perform P&W 1xxx series.

If you are into Aircraft Engine, you can read this article (which is a direct comparison between LEAP and P&W1000)

https://airinsight.com/2011/11/09/c...w-body-engines-gtf-vs-leap-maintenance-costs/

If you do not speak Aeronautical Engineering, like me, the high light is as follow

LEAF uses multistage compression to achieve the low fuel burn goal, while P&W uses gearbox to regulate the compression stage to get the near identical output resulting less stage and hardware required by the P&W Engine. Which translate to less maintenance cost.

P&W : Axial flow,1-stage geared fan, 2-3 stage LP, 8 stage HP
LEAP : 1 fan, 3-stage LP, 22:1 10-stage HP

P&W have higher dry thrust over LEAP

LEAF have a lower by-pass ratio at 11:1 than P&W 12.2:1

P&W Have a lower Operating Temperature than LEAF, by 60-130 degree

However, P&W have higher operation cycle than LEAF.

Also, both said they are equally in fuel efficiency at 12-15%, but since P&W have higher dry thrust, they have a better ratio.

 

[samsara]

Watch the COMAC C919 just completed the high speed taxi test with nose gear lift-off.
(this video shows that action clearer)

https://twitter.com/x/status/856030100747239424