China Civil Aviation, AVIC (MA600) & COMAC (ARJ21/C919/C929)

[LKJ86]

MA60

 

[LKJ86]

No.103
May 22, 2019

 

[ozranger]

The C919 aircraft will come into the commercial production in next one or two years, and surely won't need another 10 years. Not sure what did you mean by the 10 year time frame.

The C919 first order delivery is planned to be done in 2021.

Nothing as I didn't know about C919's timeframe. So 10 years mainly refers to retiring all 737s.

 

[waja2000]

Nothing as I didn't know about C919's timeframe. So 10 years mainly refers to retiring all 737s.

simplify C919 Timeframe：
2019 - 3 more C919 test plane to be fly, total 6 test plane.
2021 - Getting China CAAC certification and first commercial delivery to launch customer.
2023-24 - Getting Europe EASA certification (expected FAA certification due to cross certification between EASE/FAA)
2027 - China Domestic Engine to be commercial fly in C919.

 

[GiantPanda]

The trade war is a turning point. The C919 and CR929 will be successful in China irregardless of their performance.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Apart from the 787-Max, I would ALWAYS choose a Boeing plane over a COMAC plane. You would have to pay me a large sum of money to get onto a Chinese airliner.

That's because you're a victim of American propaganda. I can't really fault you that much, American propaganda is very effective.

Funny thing is that Boeing is likely to be even safer as they cannot afford another fiasco as that would put their future at risk.

Boeing has an absolute monopoly in the US and a duopoly with Europe. America could also withhold critical parts for Airbus planes like they're doing with China - Europe doesn't have the stones or ability to fight back. Nothing can put Boeing's future at risk.

Until COMAC gets up and running, that is...

That is also what Google thought.

Mic drop!

 

[UKBengali]

That's because you're a victim of American propaganda. I can't really fault you that much, American propaganda is very effective.

Boeing has an absolute monopoly in the US and a duopoly with Europe. America could also withhold critical parts for Airbus planes like they're doing with China - Europe doesn't have the stones or ability to fight back. Nothing can put Boeing's future at risk.

Until COMAC gets up and running, that is...

Mic drop!

Dude, Airbus A350 is all EU with UK engines.

Sorry but I would need at least a decade of Comac planes flying safely before I step on one.

 

[ozranger]

The trade war is a turning point. The C919 and CR929 will be successful in China irregardless of their performance.

I personally believe any future orders to Boeing have been suspended quietly. Airlines in China used to fly very new aircraft and recycle their fleets very frequently. I think now they can fly remaining US made aircraft a little longer and shift all orders to AirBus to at least maintain existing scale before having C919 mass production start.

Countries in Eurasia and Africa are looking forward to mainly flying A & C in civilian aviation markets.

Yes, no more "B" in between.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

Comac ARJ21 aircraft completes training flight at an altitude of 1400 meters
2019-05-25 16:17:29

[Civil Aviation] Correspondent Wang Jiaxing: At 19:56 on May 23, a two-day ARJ21 pilot was successfully landed along with an ARJ21 passenger plane (B-3322) of Chengdu Airlines at the Ejin Hollow Airport in Ordos. The field training assessment was successfully completed, and another batch of ARJ21 aircraft pilots will be officially listed at the corresponding type. It is worth mentioning that this is the first time that the domestic ARJ21 aircraft has carried out training flights at an airport at an altitude of 1400 meters, which indicates that the domestic ARJ21's operational capability has once again achieved a significant leap, and it is one step closer to the operation of the Highland Airport (1524 meters above sea level).

As the world's first user of the ARJ21 aircraft, Chengdu Airlines bears the historical mission of using and operating domestic civil aircraft. All along, Chengdu Airlines has grasped the operational safety of its operations and the construction of special teams. Pilot training is an important part of the improvement of operational capability and the construction of special teams, and is highly valued. In order to better complete the training task, the company carried out the training research work of the ARJ21 aircraft Erdos Airport three months ahead of schedule, and comprehensively prepared from aspects such as performance analysis and demonstration, familiar operating environment, development of training subjects, and development of training plans.

Chengdu Airlines ARJ21 aircraft


Cha Guangyi, general manager of Chengdu Airlines, once again stressed the importance of this flight training and encouraged the participating pilots to take this flight training as an opportunity to continue to temper flight technology, consolidate flight skills, and to achieve higher safety responsibilities and operational capabilities for domestic commercial aircraft. The goal is to continue to forge ahead.

The training flight was led by Zhang Da, a senior executive of Chengdu Airlines, and a team of faculty members including Deputy Security Director Li Jianguo and ARJ21 flight instructor Wen Zudong, including the ARJ21 flight personnel of the Civil Aviation Sichuan Regulatory Authority, China Commercial Aircraft, Tianjiao Airlines and Chengdu Airlines. Training and training completed 48 landings, and all participants completed the training tasks according to the established training plan with high standards and high quality. Once again, it shows the leading role of domestic civil aircraft, and also lays a solid foundation for the operation of the ARJ21 aircraft.

The training flight was strongly supported by Erdos Airport. Zhang Jinming, deputy general manager of Ordos Airport Group, and Lin Mingyu, deputy general manager of the airport company, greeted the flight training team at the airport and boarded the ARJ21 aircraft. The two sides also conducted in-depth exchanges and discussions on further improving the operational capability of the ARJ21 aircraft and strengthening the cooperation of the ARJ21 flight training. During the training flight, the sound operation guarantee system of Ordos Airport, the natural training flight environment, the professional training command team and the abundant support resources left a deep impression on the flight training team.

Ordos Airport

国产ARJ21飞机在海拔1400米机场完成训练飞行
民航事儿 2019-05-25 16:17:29

【民航事儿】通讯员王家兴讯：5月23日19时56分，随着成都航空公司一架ARJ21客机（B-3322）在鄂尔多斯伊金霍洛机场平稳降落，为期两天的ARJ21飞行员本场训练考核顺利完成，又一批次ARJ21飞机飞行员将在相应的型别等级上正式入列。值得一提的是，这也是国产ARJ21飞机首次在海拔1400米的机场上开展训练飞行，标志着国产ARJ21运行能力再次实现大幅跨越，距离高原机场（海拔1524米）运行更近一步。

作为ARJ21飞机全球首家用户，成都航空承担着使用好、运营好国产民机的历史使命。一直以来，成都航空在一手抓航班安全生产运营的同时，一手抓运行能力提升和特业人员队伍建设。飞行员训练作为运行能力提升和特业队伍建设的重要组成部分，受到高度重视。为更好地完成此次训练任务，公司提前三个月开展ARJ21飞机鄂尔多斯机场训练研究工作，从性能分析论证、运行环境熟悉、拟定训练科目、制定训练计划等各方面做好全面准备。

成都航空ARJ21飞机


成都航空总经理查光忆再次强调此次飞行训练的重要意义并鼓励参训飞行员以本次飞行训练为契机，持续锤炼飞行技术，夯实飞行技能，向着国产商用飞机更高的安全责任、运行能力目标不断奋进。

此次训练飞行由成都航空高级专务张放带队，与副安全总监李建国、ARJ21飞行教员翁祖东组成教员团队，包括民航四川监管局、中国商飞、天骄航空及成都航空公司的ARJ21飞行人员参加训练，训练累计完成48个起落架次，所有参训人员按照既定训练计划，高标准、高质量地完成训练任务。再次显示了国产民机的引领示范作用，同时也为ARJ21飞机高原运行奠定坚实的基础。

此次本场训练飞行工作得到了鄂尔多斯机场的大力支持，鄂尔多斯机场集团副总经理张金明，机场公司副总经理林铭宇在机场迎接飞行训练团队，并登机参观ARJ21飞机。双方还就进一步提高ARJ21飞机运行能力建设、加强ARJ21飞行训练合作等进行了深入的交流探讨。训练飞行过程中，鄂尔多斯机场健全的运行保障体系、天然的训练飞行环境、专业的训练指挥团队、丰富的保障资源都给飞行训练团队留下了深刻的印象。

鄂尔多斯机场

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

Dude, Airbus A350 is all EU with UK engines.

Sorry but I would need at least a decade of Comac planes flying safely before I step on one.

U r right to think that way.

Everyone has to start somewhere, including the phone/keyboard you're using to type this comment with.

It will take awhile for the c919's safety profile to be fully demonstrated.

 

[UKBengali]

U r right to think that way.

Everyone has to start somewhere, including the phone/keyboard you're using to type this comment with.

It will take awhile for the c919's safety profile to be fully demonstrated.

I am sure that 2-3 decades from now COMAC will be a peer to Airbus and Boeing.

 

[ozranger]

I am sure that 2-3 decades from now COMAC will be a peer to Airbus and Boeing.

I bet you can see many of them out of China. The C919 and CR929 are meant to be replacing imported aircraft at first as China now has a total fleet size of more than 3000 aircraft and the airlines normally only run a new aircraft for 10 years. So the fleet recycling is going very frequently. This market is already way too big for them.

 

[waja2000]

I bet you can see many of them out of China. The C919 and CR929 are meant to be replacing imported aircraft at first as China now has a total fleet size of more than 3000 aircraft and the airlines normally only run a new aircraft for 10 years. So the fleet recycling is going very frequently. This market is already way too big for them.

As report in China, for next 20 year China need 6000 commercial aircraft, C919 just plan take 30-40% of it, remaining will be Airbus/Boeing/Other. C919/CR929 will not replace all Airbus/Boeing plane, because china want purchase aircraft to maintain "trade balance" with EU and US.

The trade war is a turning point. The C919 and CR929 will be successful in China irregardless of their performance.

If trade war go to serious escalation, US can block US parts for C919.

 

[ozranger]

As report in China, for next 20 year China need 6000 commercial aircraft, C919 just plan take 30-40% of it, remaining will be Airbus/Boeing/Other. C919/CR929 will not replace all Airbus/Boeing plane, because china want purchase aircraft to maintain "trade balance" with EU and US.



If trade war go to serious escalation, US can block US parts for C919.

Just replace them with Chinese designed and made parts. Using foreign parts is for certification with FAA and EASA. For example, avionics are supplied by joint ventures with American companies But if you compare them with those on Y-20, there is no major difference.

COMAC used ARJ-21 to learn the FAA certification process and then threw it away after FAA refused to certify ARJ-21.

The trade war itself can only further stimulate them to build completely independent R&D capability and supply chains.

 

[GiantPanda]

Just replace them with Chinese designed and made parts. Using foreign parts is for certification with FAA and EASA. For example, avionics are supplied by joint ventures with American companies But if you compare them with those on Y-20, there is no major difference.

COMAC used ARJ-21 to learn the FAA certification process and then threw it away after FAA refused to certify ARJ-21.

The trade war itself can only further stimulate them to build completely independent R&D capability and supply chains.

Not only the supply chains but also the certifying and standards bodies.

If China no longer believes the US will ever be fair to Chinese-built high tech products, it won't let its industries be held hostage to a hostile foreign body. The global standards are fracturing as we speak for everything.