China Civil Aviation, AVIC (MA600) & COMAC (ARJ21/C919/C929)

[Beast]

MRJ get many orders from outside, for example order of SkyWest USA for 100 aircrafts.
Japanese domestic cars also look inferior but energy save, while exported cars ( to USA, Europe ) earn money for them. And they look great.
MRJ has Toyota Motor share too.

So despite their own domestic market is narrow, they still can earn big money from the MRJ



Yeap, the correct one for C919 is Kawasaki YPX ( twin engine ) which is revised from existed Kawasaki P1 ( 4 engines )

Those order are not enough to save MRJ. It needs to sold at least 600-800 before start making profit. With embracer and bombardier. It will face a stiff fight for survival and the most profitable market is China and we Chinese call the shot. Depending on others market always make u at losing end

 

[Rocky rock]

If it would get successful "PAKISTAN " would surely induct this in her PIA fleet. Well best of luck china.

 

[Barmaley]

How much has it sold so far?

SSJ100:
100+ aircrafts were build for 3 years
467 on order + 129 option

MS-21:
The first fly in next year and it has already 179 orders.

Il-96
will be modernized into two engines version.

In comparison, only 3 prototypes of ARJ21 were build so far. The same fate probably will face C919 since it doesn't have any perspective technologies.

 

[Beast]

SSJ100:
100+ aircrafts were build for 3 years
467 on order + 129 option

MS-21:
The first fly in next year and it has already 179 orders.

Il-96
will be modernized into two engines version.

In comparison, only 3 prototypes of ARJ21 were build so far. The same fate probably will face C919 since it doesn't have any perspective technologies.

ARJ-21 is project started much later than sukhoi 100. Expecting ARJ-21 is to get ahead of it is just unreasonable. It will handed over to chengdu airliner next year for operation. Our C919 class is modern jet liner above sukhoi 100 and already debut while Russian has nothing so far.
It is a fact , russian suffer embargo from EU and further sales prospect is even more bleak.
Without controlling a powerful market. Even you have the most advance jetliner is useless. That is why Russian is desperate to come collaborate with us on C929 airliner , hoping it can tap into mighty China aviation market.
China aviation market is the biggest in the world and is state controlled. We control whoever we want to buy.

Boeing Raises Its Estimate of Chinese Aircraft Demand - WSJ

 

[Barmaley]

ARJ-21 is project started much later than sukhoi 100. Expecting ARJ-21 is to get ahead of it is just unreasonable. It will handed over to chengdu airliner next year for operation. Our C919 class is modern jet liner above sukhoi 100 and already debut while Russian has nothing so far.
It is a fact , russian suffer embargo from EU and further sales prospect is even more bleak.
Without controlling a powerful market. Even you have the most advance jetliner is useless. That is why Russian is desperate to come collaborate with us on C929 airliner , hoping it can tap into mighty China aviation market.
China aviation market is the biggest in the world and is state controlled. We control whoever we want to buy.

Boeing Raises Its Estimate of Chinese Aircraft Demand - WSJ

ARJ21 - first fly November 2008
SSJ100 - first fly May 2008

How its much later? As i said, ARJ21 - is fail project.

What embargo are you talking about? and this is why their buying our aircrafts? As example: CityJet to Take Delivery of 15 Superjet SSJ100


C919 not even flying yet - even more, C919 - using outdated technologies in airframe construction (more weight) and engines (consume more fuel). Avionics probably standard from thales.

Meanwhile, MS-21 will get 5th generation turbofan engine and fully composite wings.

about C929 - we already have wide-body jet liners and you don't. Your market also dominated by the foreign aircrafts and i guess this is good achievement?

 

[Beast]

ARJ21 - first fly November 2008
SSJ100 - first fly May 2008

How its much later? As i said, ARJ21 - is fail project.

What embargo are you talking about? and this is why their buying our aircrafts? As example: CityJet to Take Delivery of 15 Superjet SSJ100


C919 not even flying yet - even more, C919 - using outdated technologies in airframe construction (more weight) and engines (consume more fuel). Avionics probably standard from thales.

Meanwhile, MS-21 will get 5th generation turbofan engine and fully composite wings.

about C929 - we already have wide-body jet liners and you don't. Your market also dominated by the foreign aircrafts and i guess this is good achievement?

You are just spreading nonsense. C919 using the latest Leap engine and new alloy aluminium is lighter/stronger and burns less fuel. The front of the plane using latest 3D technology to product very sooth while wide 4 piece windscreen that helps in pilot realtime vision and more efficient aerdynamic that reduces fuel burning. No other competitor can do that.

Our Chinese market is dominated with Airbus and Boeing, that is why C919 is very important becos this section of medium size airliner is most important and lucrative. It will ensure some billions of dollar pouring into developing our aviation industries will go back to China for benefit of our Chinese aviation R&D and wages for Chinese technician and engineers.

Chinese people are getting richer and they can afford more flight. We have the right market for aviation development. C919 will be a huge success once enter service. A China state sponsor project can never failed.

 

[qwerrty]

ARJ21 - first fly November 2008
SSJ100 - first fly May 2008
C919 not even flying yet - even more, C919 - using outdated technologies in airframe construction (more weight) and engines (consume more fuel). Avionics probably standard from thales.

Meanwhile, MS-21 will get 5th generation turbofan engine and fully composite wings.

about C929 - we already have wide-body jet liners and you don't. Your market also dominated by the foreign aircrafts and i guess this is good achievement?

MC-21 composite wings and other composite parts are made by FACC, an austrian composite specialist.

do you know FACC is owned by AVIC the parent company that make C919? lol

 

[BoQ77]

Those order are not enough to save MRJ. It needs to sold at least 600-800 before start making profit. With embracer and bombardier. It will face a stiff fight for survival and the most profitable market is China and we Chinese call the shot. Depending on others market always make u at losing end

For example, SkyWest order 100 MRJ90, and option another 100. Sky West is the US major carrier means 3.5 billion USD of revenue for last fiscal year.

Trans States order 50 and option another 50.

Look at the largest customer of ARJ-21, Henan Airlines. Found in December 2006, order 100 ARJ-21 in 2007.
Now they are failed joint venture airliner
and currently could only operate 4x E190

So ARJ-21 could be saved with such orders like those?

 

[Beast]

For example, SkyWest order 100 MRJ90, and option another 100.
Trans States order 50 and option another 50.

Look at the largest customer of ARJ-21, Henan Airlines. Found in December 2006, order 100 ARJ-21 in 2007.
Now they are failed joint venture airliner
and currently could only operate 4x E190

So ARJ-21 could be saved with such orders like those?

View attachment 272181

Yes, it can. We can easily order state owned airliner to order more if needed. But does Japan has the financial and means to match Chinese feat? For China, there are really demands for the airplane as more Chinese travel around the countries which translate to profitabilities that sustain the buying spree while that cant be truth for Japan.

Japan needs to win more foreign sales to survive.

 

[BoQ77]

Yes, it can. We can easily order state owned airliner to order more if needed. But does Japan has the financial and means to match Chinese feat? For China, there are really demands for the airplane as more Chinese travel around the countries which translate to profitabilities that sustain the buying spree while that cant be truth for Japan.

Japan needs to win more foreign sales to survive.

MRJ could pass to operate in US means it could be accepted to operate anywhere else.

Mitsubishi can't order US corps to order their MRJ but US ordered hundred of MRJ means its competitiveness is good.

MRJ looks safe and competitive

oh the first arj21 would be handed to chengdu airline ordered in 2010. means orders older than it cancelled?

including Joy Air?

so there is only 100 on order

 

[Beast]

MRJ could pass to operate in US means it could be accepted to operate anywhere else.

Mitsubishi can't order US corps to order their MRJ but US ordered hundred of MRJ means its competitiveness is good.

MRJ looks safe and competitive

oh the first arj21 would be handed to chengdu airline ordered in 2010. means orders older than it cancelled?

including Joy Air?

so there is only 100 on order

No, State owned airline still maintain their order. 342 order still stand. They are ordered by CPC to do so.
MRJ still need to face competition from more experience Bombardier and Embraer. ARJ-21 face no competition in China and China market is the largest in the world.

 

[BoQ77]

No, State owned airline still maintain their order. 342 order still stand. They are ordered by CPC to do so.
MRJ still need to face competition from more experience Bombardier and Embraer. ARJ-21 face no competition in China and China market is the largest in the world.

so I wonder why Chengdu is the launch customer? not FIFO?

why not Shanghai or Henan airline?

 

[Beast]

so I wonder why Chengdu is the launch customer? not FIFO?

why not Shanghai or Henan airline?

What's the different? They are all China state controlled airliners.

 

[BoQ77]

What's the different? They are all China state controlled airliners.

The difference as we see, Henan ordered 100 since 2007, Shanghai/Shandong Airline ordered some since 2003.
Chengdu ordered 30 just 5 years ago. in 2010. Even Joy Air ordered 50 back to 2008.
So Chengdu Airline order is not big compare to above airliners.

But Chengdu is the launch customer, so am I wrong to doubt there're some cancelled orders ?

 

[Beast]

ARJ-21 delivered to Chengdu domestic airline pilot with key and fly to Chengdu airline company.

A short video about development of ARJ-21

PICTURES: Chengdu Airlines takes delivery of first ARJ21

Comac has delivered the first ARJ21-700 to launch customerChengdu Airlines.

Bearing MSN 106, the aircraft took off from Shanghai Dachang airport on 29 November, and made a 2h 48min flight to Chengdu Shuangliu airport, where it was welcomed by a traditional water cannon salute.

Comac

Comac says that the delivery of the aircraft is a major breakthrough for the Chinese aviation industry, and demonstrates its ability to complete the design, testing, certification and delivery of commercial aircraft.

The aircraft will be put into service in the coming weeks on domestic flights to cities including Beijing, Xian, Wuhan, Shenzhen and Shanghai. Chengdu Airlines has a further 29 of the type on order.

Certificated in December 2014, the ARJ21 has been in development for 12 years, and has been plagued by programme delays that have put it eight years behind its original schedule.

Flightglobal’s Fleets Analyzer shows that Comac garnered has 162 orders for the aircraft, mostly from Chinese carriers and leasing companies.