China, Austria, New Zealand, Turkey, South Africa & Ireland oppose India NSG

[Delta9]

Alright then, I'll tell you what you want to hear.

Every country mentioned in the title of this thread is going to immediately change their mind, let India into the NSG, and then let India into the UNSC P5.

Doesn't hurt to dream. India's been having this same dream for over a decade now, and every year they "almost" make it.

They are beginning to change their minds, An American push carries a lot of diplomatic weight.

http://in.reuters.com/article/india-nuclear-china-idINKCN0YV154

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

They are beginning to change their minds, An American push carries a lot of diplomatic weight.

http://in.reuters.com/article/india-nuclear-china-idINKCN0YV154

Yeah like in the South China Sea?

If we want to veto it, we'll veto it and then forget about it the next day. It's that easy.

 

[Delta9]

Yeah like in the South China Sea?

If we want to veto it, we'll veto it and then forget about it the next day. It's that easy.

It is all about choosing your battles, China might isolate itself and win a pyrrihic victory here, simply because it was admitted into the group a little earlier than India.

But then it might loose, another more important one to its geo-strategic objectives, because it isolated itself and alienated one of its largest neighbor.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Out of that list, China is actually the easiest one to appease. Just let in Pakistan as well, and we will drop our objections.

However for Austria/New Zealand/Turkey/South Africa/Ireland/etc. they want you to sign the NPT first... i.e. give up your nuclear weapons.

So good luck with that.

It was the other way around during NSG waiver, According to Americans, Chinese were the most feisty ones, but eventually all Chinese noises were muffled

Wow so India will have no problems then, it will just enter the NSG and the UNSC after begging for a decade?

We do,

Americans who managed to force China into accepting India's NSG waiver were Republican Hawks.

The current POTUS happens to be a Democratic dove, so less hopes on this one.

China seems to be more submissive to the former given NSG waiver case.

Still a mystery of what magic and hypnotism did Bush manage to throw that made China compromise on its own and Pakistan's national security.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

It was the other way around during NSG waiver, According to Americans, Chinese were the most feisty ones, but eventually all Chinese noises were muffled




We do,

Americans who managed to force China into accepting India's NSG waiver were Republican Hawks.

The current POTUS happens to be a Democratic dove, so less hopes on this one.

China seems to be more submissive to the former given NSG waiver case.

Still a mystery of what magic and hypnotism did Bush manage to throw that made China compromise on its own and Pakistan's national security.

Damn man, if it's such a sure thing for India to get into the NSG and UNSC, I wonder what all the crying here is about.

In fact I've been hearing the same story since before I even joined this forum. India has "almost" got into the UNSC P5. Time and time again.

They forgot that we have veto in both, and we are not shy about using our veto whenever we want to use it. Even if it has nothing to do with us, like the Syrian veto that drove NATO into a crying fit.

It's the same story as all the previous times that India has boasted they were "almost" about to enter the NSG and the UNSC P5. Just a joke each time.

 

[Majet Raha]

Damn man, if it's such a sure thing for India to get into the NSG and UNSC, I wonder what all the crying here is about.

In fact I've been hearing the same story since before I even joined this forum. India has "almost" got into the UNSC P5. Time and time again.

They forgot that we have veto in both, and we are not shy about using our veto whenever we want to use it. Even if it has nothing to do with us, like the Syrian veto that drove NATO into a crying fit.

It's the same story as all the previous times that India has boasted they were "almost" about to enter the NSG and the UNSC P5. Just a joke each time.

Too many emoji's man, and everytime. no teeth and green laughing man, be a plain and simple man.

on topic

We know its difficult everywhere with china already have a presence. We know its difficult and thus you see all the lobbying from our dear PM, FM and so many other diplomats. And so far we have only faced block with the UN seat with chinese. Rest places you guys shouted a lot but eventually gave in.

Thus the game changes, for the UN seat what is needed is we target first. You went the other way, you had the UN seat with VETO and then you were welcome everywhere and bought your place in. Ours is completely opposite approach.

Lets be real and smell the coffee, we need these places and want our presence here. And we will do the legwork, what is the extreme thing going to happen? it will take another year, but the pressure is constant, we got the NSG waiver in 2008, you must remember that. Then we got the MTCR just now, every other country approves our inclusion in the NSG, so lets wait for the 22nd June and stop bragging here.

 

[CorporateAffairs]

More countries oppose you, more powerful you are actually becoming
I'm enjoying it

 

[Kim Philby]

the reason "Pakistan application" is just a decoy for Chinese. The real reason is purely financial and from business point of view. Apart from other NSG group members, India also manufacture civilian nuclear reactors (though smaller, just like PSLV)). It has got some expertise and the safety standards are high and cost is comparatively low. Once it is into NSG, they will be able to sell their products to African nations, and some other nations there by putting Chinese business at harms length.

So you know the Pakistani angle is just an excuse. The real reason is elsewhere!!

@Srinivas @Kal Muah @punit

 

[Srinivas]

the reason "Pakistan application" is just a decoy for Chinese. The real reason is purely financial and from business point of view. Apart from other NSG group members, India also manufacture civilian nuclear reactors (though smaller, just like PSLV)). It has got some expertise and the safety standards are high and cost is comparatively low. Once it is into NSG, they will be able to sell their products to African nations, and some other nations there by putting Chinese business at harms length.

So you know the Pakistani angle is just an excuse. The real reason is elsewhere!!

@Srinivas @Kal Muah @punit

Exactly, China is not batting for Pakistani membership in NSG but to spoil the Indian membership bid.

 

[Indian009]

Lets see who is the first Nay sayer

More interestingly who want to lock horns with USA ??? From our last experience USA dont take it lightly and do everything possible to harrse you ( sanctions )

 

[Grevion]

Austria and turkey were expected. Bit surprised by the opposition of South Africa. New Zealand's politics is much inspired by the Aussies, time to call a few friends back their by our PM.
Lets pull some strings in the EU to make Austria and Ireland fall under the line.

 

[dadeechi]

Who cares about being the last man standing?

(And we are obviously not, if you check the thread title).

We fought the entire United Nations during the Korean War, including the USA + 16 of her allies combined. Compared to that this is a joke, not even worth our time. We'll just veto and forget about it the next day.

You are not privy to the details of what is happening.

If China is going to veto India's application then why is Pakistan running pillar to post exhorting other members to join China? You only need one vote to stop it.

 

[Kal Muah]

You are not privy to the details of what is happening.

If China is going to veto India's application then why is Pakistan running pillar to post exhorting other members to join China? You only need one vote to stop it.

As said by @Kim Philby "Pakistan application" is just a decoy for Chinese. China doesn't want to look bad in front of the world.

 

[dadeechi]

As said by @Kim Philby "Pakistan application" is just a decoy for Chinese. China doesn't want to look bad in front of the world.

While India was busy with the Jaswant-Strobe talks right after the nuclear tests, Pakistan was busy with the military coup & sanctions.

While India entered into a defence agreement with US, Pakistan was busy with WoT.

While India was closing 1-2-3 agreement, Pakistan was busy with 26/11 and it's fallout.

While India was busy getting NSG waiver, Pakistan was busy outsmarting US in Afghanistan.

While India was upgrading its relations with US as part of DTTI, Pakistan moved completely into the lap of China through CPEC.

In spite of lack of engagement of US by Pakistan, US did entertain the nuclear deal talks with Nawaz Sharif government in 2015. With Pakistan's dubious record on nuclear proliferation (Libya, North Korea & Iran), US offered the NSG deal to Pakistan provided Pakistan joins NPT, CTBT & FMCT.

Pakistan declined the offer.

At the end of the day it was purely the failure of Pakistan's establishment and foreign policy which could not close the deal with the US.

Rather than Pakistan acting as a cry baby and trying to rock India's NSG apple cart, it should introspect where it went wrong and what needs to be done to rectify and bring their policies back on track.

India's message to China was clear

1) Do not link India's NSG case with that of Pakistan

2) Gave assurance to China that India would not object to Pakistan's NSG application in future as and when it comes up for review once India is part of NSG.

Now the ball is completely in Pakistan's court to ensure that they obtain the support of remaining 47 members.

Rather than expending its political capital on preventing India's membership, Pakistan should have used it for attaining it's own membership. This desperation indicates that Pakistan has lost all the hope for it's case and hell bent on retaining the parity with India by preventing India's membership.

Very unfortunate indeed..

 

[OrionHunter]

No issues, they can come and vote !

In the end the consensus is what matters, not what individual countries think.

Exactly! Since NSG works on consensus principle, the bottom line is that all members should be in favour of the proposal to admit that State (no one should oppose it).

Here, Pakistan's deeper than ocean friend, China will oppose it tooth and nail not because it wants Pakistan to be allowed to join too, as per the wishes of Pakistan, but only to keep India away from the high table. It balks at India becoming a counter to China's grand design of domination in Asia and beyond. Pakistan is being used by China just as an excuse as China well knows that no one will agree to Pakistan's entry into the NSG and thus not India's too!

Well, with China's great wall to contend with, it's going to be an uphill task for India.