China Asks Pakistan to Mend Its Fences with Neighbours

[Meengla]

Yes, tough and most welcome love.
Pakistani leadership in all shades--even the religious ones--have more trust in China than in perhaps any other country.
I wish China uses its influence to help Pakistan and India to 'shelve' their differences for next 20 years, at least, and cut down on military spending, stop proxy wars, so that both countries move on.
It is true that India, due to its larger size, can better absorb the shocks in the region. But if things get out of hand then that can change.

 

[Rig Vedic]

As for mending fences, that's diplomatic speak for 'try and play the game a bit more smartly'.

That is why nobody is going overboard here. You want Pakistan to continue playing games. We will have to wait and see Pakistan takes anything more than cosmetic steps.

Often Pakistan asks the non-state fronts to change their names ... we have seen all the games before.

 

[Patriot]

The West and the Saudis keep bankrolling these thieves because they don't give a damn about the Pakistani people and only want to keep their lackeys in power. China should not give a single cent to the government.

Why should people in other countries see their tax dollars going to the pockets of Pakistani thief politicians who don't pay taxes themselves.

Well I guess it also refutes the Indian Members theory that China just wants to use Pakistan for anti India activities where as IMO China is a true ally of Pakistan.A stable and developed Pakistan is in China's interest.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

You guys can't let go any event without making it into a point scoring thingy.

Anyway, the dialogue on Sir Creek issue is an ongoing thing and are planned much in advance. And this present dialogue is in continuation of the ones happened previously.

Nope not a point scoring thing. Just a hope that you will use the hammer and nails and that this dialogue can continue to other more important issues to be resolved such as the dispute over Kashmir. Right now it is in Pakistan's strategic long term interests to start smoking the peace pipe with India. You need to start rehauling your economy. You need to finish off your war against your militants. You need to start breaking off your dependence on US monies. You need to get the USA out of your territory or else your people will rise up and heaven help your establishment the day that happens. You also need to scale down your military to concentrate on restructuring your economy on a peace time basis. My view is that most Pakistanis are of the view that if the Kashmir issue is resolved then India poses no threat to Pakistan and vice versa. Your alliance with China is based on strategic issues, mostly your anger towards India and the hope that China will serve as a deterrent to India or any other country trying to economically strangle you. China has made it clear that it does not give handouts to anybody. You are also harboring extremists in the hope that they can be used against India in any disputes which you may have with India. Minus the tension with India and there goes your need to condone these organisations and remain under the radar of the world as being a "country which houses terrorists". Hence my statement that I hope that you will use the hammer and nails provided to you by India

 

[Meengla]

@PlanetWarrior,
I agree. As Musharraf said that Kashmir is the 'only' major dispute between India and Pakistan. If that dispute is taken out of the equation a lot, if not most, things will start falling in place.
I say that there is enough ice in the Himalayas to feed the valleys of India and Pakistan and China. There is wastage in the use of water. That can be easily stopped by various measures, starting with canal lining, drip irrigation. That prevents the 'water wars'. The price of only one F16 aircraft is probably more than what it would take to line, say, 200 miles of canal. The trade. The tourism.
We don't have to re-invent the wheel. We can learn from the Europeans to manage our differences. Ultimately, we should all know instinctively, outside powers in the subcontinent don't have any intrinsic interest in the stability of the region. That is the cardinal truth and the starting point for new narratives.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

@PlanetWarrior,
I agree. As Musharraf said that Kashmir is the 'only' major dispute between India and Pakistan. If that dispute is taken out of the equation a lot, if not most, things will start falling in place.
I say that there is enough ice in the Himalayas to feed the valleys of India and Pakistan and China. There is wastage in the use of water. That can be easily stopped by various measures, starting with canal lining, drip irrigation. That prevents the 'water wars'. The price of only one F16 aircraft is probably more than what it would take to line, say, 200 miles of canal. The trade. The tourism.
We don't have to re-invent the wheel. We can learn from the Europeans to manage our differences. Ultimately, we should all know instinctively, outside powers in the subcontinent don't have any intrinsic interest in the stability of the region. That is the cardinal truth and the starting point for new narratives.

Sadly it doesn't suit the west's objectives for there to be peace in the sub-continent. They supply most of the machines and weapons and conflict in our region is profit to them. It also doesn't suit our politicians objectives as peace will make them have to live on a politician's salary which is way too low for some of them. Our Bofors scandal and Pakistan's current aid scandal is a clear demonstration of that. Our religious movements with their large scale egos promote instability cross border. Our foolish people continously vote in politicians who saber rattle. It seems that cable tv is inadequate entertainment for our people and media reports of a few more dozen nukes added to the arsenal seems to give our people large scale orgasms. It took a Pakistani military leader who was not answerable to any constituency to make the most largest stride in peace talks between Pakistan and India. Perhaps we should both elect generals to lead our two nations for a five year period and thereafter revert to civilian rule after they have sorted out the disputes

 

[vikrams]

no hard cash

 

[hembo]

China, Pakistan in security pledge - China.org.cn Xinhua, May 20, 2011

Amazing reporting from some reporters comparing to the original official join statement.

Dear Sir,

Do you sincerely believe that things like below quoted pieces will be put in a joint official statement of the two premiers, or these would be the part of discussion which did not receive a positive conclusion and hence dropped from the joint official statement.

The Chinese leadership has, however, declined to oblige the desire expressed by Islamabad for fiscal assistance. It has told the visiting guests from Pakistan that China, as part of its policy, doesn�t give hard cash as financial assistance to any country.

The Chinese government did not agree with a proposal from Pakistan for selling JF-17 multi-purpose fighter planes produced by Pakistan and China jointly.

The news agency which published these report (A Pakistani agency BTW), were obviously was a part of the Gillani delegation and hence were privy to the various discussion that took place with different Chinese officials with Mr. Gilani.

However, those matters, which did not resolved positively would obviously be kept out of the conclusive joint statement of the two premiers.

Just a speculation from me and anybody and everybody have full right to disagree.

Regards.

 

[Meengla]

Sadly it doesn't suit the west's objectives for there to be peace in the sub-continent. They supply most of the machines and weapons and conflict in our region is profit to them. It also doesn't suit our politicians objectives as peace will make them have to live on a politician's salary which is way too low for some of them. Our Bofors scandal and Pakistan's current aid scandal is a clear demonstration of that. Our religious movements with their large scale egos promote instability cross border. Our foolish people continously vote in politicians who saber rattle. It seems that cable tv is inadequate entertainment for our people and media reports of a few more dozen nukes added to the arsenal seems to give our people large scale orgasms. It took a Pakistani military leader who was not answerable to any constituency to make the most largest stride in peace talks between Pakistan and India. Perhaps we should both elect generals to lead our two nations for a five year period and thereafter revert to civilian rule after they have sorted out the disputes

I agree with you that 'Western' interests would be to sell weapons and keep our region in perpetual conflicts.

However, I am not sure that Pakistani people necessarily elect war-mongering politicians. The current secular govt. of PPP+ANP+MQM are some of the softest of all political parties in Pakistan vis a vis India. I don't want to waste anyone's time here but it is not hard to find accusations of 'traitors' against them. Baseless ones, of course. The most likely next PM is going to be Nawaz Sharif and he has gone a sea change in his thinking vis a vis India.
It is the military in Pakistan which really controls the security policy and so, yes, under Musharraf we came very close to resolving, if not 'shelving' the Kashmir dispute.

We need to go back to pre 2009 era and see what exactly did Musharraf and Manmohan agree upon Kashmir. I am aware of 'Andorra Solution' etc but all that is just talk. Why can't we focus on that? I think the time is ripe, especially inside Pakistan, to make peace with India. I say this because never in Pakistan's entire history the Pakistani civilian and military leadership have felt more betrayed by Americans as they do now. The recent unanimous Resolution passed by the Pakistani Parliament after grilling military/ISI was the clearest manifestation of that sense of betrayal.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

@Meengla


I hope that the Pakistani way of thinking towards India and Indians are changing. Most influential Indian economists and business people whom I engage with regard Pakistan as a "little brother" who has gone astray. Contrary to what most Pakistanis here believe, Indians do not rejoice at the current state of Pakistan. Most Indians (of all religions) are rather ticked off about the militant and drone attacks etc which are taking place in Pakistan. Accusations are that India is funding the militants but my take on it is that any Indian government found guilty of such an underhanded tactic will be booted out by the Indian people. In fact, Indians who I engage with wryly reflect on the fact that there are so many trade restrictions between the two nations when Pakistan has a host of products which India would be so willing to buy directly from Pakistan. China is a powerful and wealthy nation. Unfortunately China can only do so much for Pakistan. That is clear by the fact that the Pakistani establishment still threads carefully with the USA whom they seem to rely on. India is an important factor in the sub continent. Pakistan is likewise. If we both clean up our borders then everybody including China benefits. Sadly this seems to be a pipe dream

 

[SivHp]

Soo sad....once ind 7 Pak thinks abt peace..this forum will go visitor less

 

[Meengla]

@Planetwarrior,
Yes, there is a sea change in the Pakistani thinking and the post-OBL events have opened any closed eyes in Pakistan vis a vis American presence in this area. One of the items before the recent joint session of Parliament in Pakistan was India. It could be either a rejoinder to India over the threat made by the Indian Army Chief. Or it could have been a shift to make peace with India. At least 'shelve' the Kashmir issue. Not sure how much India was discussed. They should have. The current Parliament of Pakistan is unique in the sense that there are all kind of parties represented. Same is with the provincial assemblies of Pakistan. The military top brass was also inside Pakistan. Pakistani parliament should have extended an olive branch to India to shelve the disputes then.
Anyway, I hope China can influence that. This topic is about that.

 

[bc040400065]

Whats so surprizing for some members here?? Chinese don;t beleive in just giving hard cash, and their past shows it that they always invest. And thats what should be because that is win win for everyone. Their investment helps us by creating more jobs and more revenue. They are always open to invest in any development project anywhere in Pakistan, even Gomal zam dam which borders Waziristan, chinese were there as well. In Balochistan again with all the security situation but chinese don't hesitate even investing there.
I think Aid is not a solution for us, and its good that chinese don't give aid to our corrupt leaders.

 

[bc040400065]

but i would like to know about this JFT export being not allowed. I don't believe this because then why AVIC was there marketing JFT in UK and zuhai air show last year?? Also the JFT agreement says that both countries can sell the aircraft on their own if they want but profits will be shared. I think someone like taimi or nabil should clearify this.

 

[Avishek]

I think china is trying ta be big brother.which india or pakistan will not like

---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------

I think china is trying to be big brother.which india or pakistan will not like