China announced China-India border security talk failed, blaming India has unrealistic goals in the talks

[MH.Yang]

India never claimed that it will initiate a 2 front war. It only claimed that we are ready for it if such a war is forced upon us.

China's request is very simple. Let China's newly controlled land become a buffer zone, and Indian soldiers are not allowed to approach. If India wants to restore the border which before the kalwan incident, take it yourself. Because of the Indian provocation, four of us died, and we will not agree to return to the original state.

 

[Dungeness]

Poor Indian kid, Chinese members are looking for a place to piss for the past couple of days, then he offered the service.

 

[magra]

front page headlines?

Look at the figure below. The top 9 news has nothing to do with India. The Chinese are paying attention to the flood in Shanxi Province.
If you don't know Chinese, you can look for the word "印度(India)".
View attachment 783803

See this on globaltimes.cn

Are you trying indian twisting and mental gymnastics again? What is confusing for you still?

The disengagements in 2020 were forced on India where India signs agreements to never step onto Galwan and Pangong. These are lands India claims and India agreed to never walk on it again in return for PLA disengagement. Do you really think PLA disengaged and gave it to you for free?

show me where India side is asking for mutual disengagement? Please instead of always behaving like India. Are you not ashamed your lies from 2020 were broken? You guys said you captured PLA then your gov denied it! Owned again and destroyed again.

China is asking India to leave and disengage but India is refusing to. This is what is happening during negotiations. China has nothing to offer India now so India refuses. Previously China offered PLA withdrawal in exchange for India agreeing to buffer.

You are really confusing me here.
Are you saying that 2020 agreements were one-sided where India alone made concessions. If thats the case, doesnt Chinese demands seem unreasonable then?

lol, when was the last time India made on our trending, oh, only when India does some clown funny shit.

See post #47. You will see the news as front and center headline.

 

[magra]

Then you will have to learn your history, if not from your school you can always search "Chinese offer to India in 1960's". The best place to start would be "India's China war" by Maxwell. https://www.amazon.com/Indias-China-War-N-Maxwell/dp/0394470516

You can keep harking back to 1960s whereas the world including India has moved on. India wants to solve all border issues with China, but China keeps its foot dragging.

 

[serenity]

See this on globaltimes.cn

View attachment 783805

You are really confusing me here.
Are you saying that 2020 agreements were one-sided where India alone made concessions. If thats the case, doesnt Chinese demands seem unreasonable then?

Did I say India alone made concessions?

India lost the strength. All the indians were either killed, beaten to a pulp, ran away, or captured. Do you agree? India was proven weak and useless so where is the position of strength to demand anything from China after that? China had upper hand during those negotiations in 2020. The exchange was PLA disengages and India signs agreement to never step foot onto the new buffer zones. To you it was unilateral China give freebies or unilateral India give freebies lol.

China's demands now? That india leave the rest of the land where India is currently on. India refuses. India demands China to give them control of the small part which India desperately at least wants. India wants a channel to Aksai Chin. China wants to seal off Aksai Chin with buffer. Both call the other side unreasonable of course. This should just be ignored since it is expected political talk from both sides. You read too much into political talk and don't bother looking at facts and evidence.

Facts are China disengaged in return for India disengaging off previous standoff friction points and India signing agreement to not step foot on them again. India holds some more positions which China claims is on the disputed land so wants India to leave those but India will not since India needs channel to Aksai Chin otherwise it loses all its claims and China finally wins Aksai Chin.

 

[magra]

China's request is very simple. Let China's newly controlled land become a buffer zone, and Indian soldiers are not allowed to approach. If India wants to restore the border which before the kalwan incident, take it yourself. Because of the Indian provocation, four of us died, and we will not agree to return to the original state.

So are you admitting that China changed the status quo which was there before the Galwan incident? If yes, then why is China blaming India when you are admitting that China is the aggressor here.

 

[serenity]

You can keep harking back to 1960s whereas the world including India has moved on. India wants to solve all border issues with China, but China keeps its foot dragging.

If India wants to solve all border issues with China why is it China that is offering India to demarcate the line? And India refusing since 1959?

It is India dragging its foot because it wants Aksai Chin. So why do you call it China refusing when reality is opposite to your claims. Show me where and when India offered demarcation like China constantly has been.

 

[Dungeness]

You can keep harking back to 1960s whereas the world including India has moved on. India wants to solve all border issues with China, but China keeps its foot dragging.

It's easy to solve border issues with China, just pack and leave from the Chinki places you guys never belonged.

 

[magra]

Facts are China disengaged in return for India disengaging off previous standoff friction points and India signing agreement to not step foot on them again. India holds some more positions which China claims is on the disputed land so wants India to leave those but India will not since India needs channel to Aksai Chin otherwise it loses all its claims and China finally wins Aksai Chin.

Okay. So lets talk facts.
After all these Chinese demands, will we return to the pre-Galwan status quo? If yes, that is acceptable to India. If you are saying that India should accept China getting more territory from pre-Galwan, then why do you think India should accept? Is it not an unreasonable demand by China?

If India wants to solve all border issues with China why is it China that is offering India to demarcate the line? And India refusing since 1959?

It is India dragging its foot because it wants Aksai Chin. So why do you call it China refusing when reality is opposite to your claims. Show me where and when India offered demarcation like China constantly has been.

Are you saying that China is ready to relinquish all claims on Ladakh, Arunachal Pradesh, Sikkim etc in return for India acknowledging China's current hold on Aksai Chin?

It's easy to solve border issues with China, just pack and leave from the Chinki places you guys never belonged.

Are you saying that India has gained some Chinese territory? If yes, then Indian military must surely be stronger than Chinese, right?

 

[Dungeness]

Are you saying that India has gained some Chinese territory? If yes, then Indian military must surely be stronger than Chinese, right?

Yeah, sure Indian military are stronger than Chinese,

 

[serenity]

Okay. So lets talk facts.
After all these Chinese demands, will we return to the pre-Galwan status quo? If yes, that is acceptable to India. If you are saying that India should accept China getting more territory from pre-Galwan, then why do you think India should accept? Is it not an unreasonable demand by China?

What Chinese demands? Do you mean for India to totally leave the disputed land and sign buffer agreements? That is the negotiation demands from China.

Pre-Galwan status quo means India can patrol as frequently as it likes

https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...than-china-says-v-k-singh/article33774108.ece

" “Let me assure you, if China has transgressed 10 times, we must have done it at least 50 times,” he added." - from VK Singh.

I think this status quo is unacceptable to China since it gives India a channel to Aksai Chin, in fact the whole area is open to access by India and India will in future simply conduct non stop patrols due to having much more available man power so close to this area whereas China's forces and manpower are in the east and center.

Of course India finds 2019 conditions acceptable since it still gets access. This is why China is demanding buffer which means India cannot access this area and even further away from Aksai Chin.

India is not accepting! When did I say India should accept? Clearly India accepted previous agreement of buffer only because PLA held those positions. Now PLA has left India is not accepting any buffer and leaving the area.

China is not getting more territory but with a buffer, it avoids future confrontation which is doesn't like doing even according to VK Singh. This also allows China to totally secure Aksai Chin which India claims. Wtih a total buffer, China seals India off from Aksai Chin. It also means India will not even gain the land next to it and no more confrontations against patrol units.

the main difference between 2019 status quo and new one China is aiming for is the total buffer of this disputed area while China keeps Aksai Chin and the benefit is no more confrontations and patrolling to deal with. MH Yang is suggesting the buffer is something just for India and if China secures the buffer deal, due to superior force, China will simply slowly take over it.

 

[Dungeness]

Okay. So lets talk facts.
After all these Chinese demands, will we return to the pre-Galwan status quo? If yes, that is acceptable to India. If you are saying that India should accept China getting more territory from pre-Galwan, then why do you think India should accept? Is it not an unreasonable demand by China?

No, just because I allowed you to walk across my lawn before, doesn't mean you own my lawn. I don't allow you to walk on my lawn anymore, or I will fire my shotgun. You want status-quo? I want status quo ante. Shed blood for what you want. Are you ready?

 

[Leishangthem]

See this on globaltimes.cn

View attachment 783805

You are really confusing me here.
Are you saying that 2020 agreements were one-sided where India alone made concessions. If thats the case, doesnt Chinese demands seem unreasonable then?

See post #47. You will see the news as front and center headline.

Global times is made for international audience,most of the avid followers being Indians,not for China or Chinese; rest assured none nation,other than may be Pakistan , has any interest or curiosity about India,that includes china.

 

[magra]

What Chinese demands? Do you mean for India to totally leave the disputed land and sign buffer agreements? That is the negotiation demands from China.

Pre-Galwan status quo means India can patrol as frequently as it likes

https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...than-china-says-v-k-singh/article33774108.ece

" “Let me assure you, if China has transgressed 10 times, we must have done it at least 50 times,” he added." - from VK Singh.

I think this status quo is unacceptable to China since it gives India a channel to Aksai Chin, in fact the whole area is open to access by India and India will in future simply conduct non stop patrols due to having much more available man power so close to this area whereas China's forces and manpower are in the east and center.

Of course India finds 2019 conditions acceptable since it still gets access. This is why China is demanding buffer which means India cannot access this area and even further away from Aksai Chin.

India is not accepting! When did I say India should accept? Clearly India accepted previous agreement of buffer only because PLA held those positions. Now PLA has left India is not accepting any buffer and leaving the area.

China is not getting more territory but with a buffer, it avoids future confrontation which is doesn't like doing even according to VK Singh. This also allows China to totally secure Aksai Chin which India claims. Wtih a total buffer, China seals India off from Aksai Chin. It also means India will not even gain the land next to it and no more confrontations against patrol units.

the main difference between 2019 status quo and new one China is aiming for is the total buffer of this disputed area while China keeps Aksai Chin and the benefit is no more confrontations and patrolling to deal with. MH Yang is suggesting the buffer is something just for India and if China secures the buffer deal, due to superior force, China will simply slowly take over it.

Thank you for your explanation.

As I understand your statements, you are saying that pre-Galwan status quo is not acceptable to China as it fears that it allows India an access to Aksai Chin which India can potentially use to invade and capture Aksai Chin in future. Am I correct?
Can you not simply create a wall on your land to ward off potential India attack. You are experts in wall making right (eg. Great Wall of China).
What right do you have to demand India to relinquish territory because you fear of a future attack?

No, just because I allowed you to walk across my lawn before, doesn't mean you own my lawn. I don't allow you to walk on my lawn anymore, or I will fire my shotgun. You want status-quo? I want status quo ante. Shed blood for what you want. Are you ready?

You claim it is your lawn, we claim it is our lawn. The lawn is disputed man. India is asking that we make the de-facto pre-Galwan occupation of lands as de-jure, thus ending the disputes.

Global times is made for international audience,most of the avid followers being Indians,not for China or Chinese; rest assured none nation,other than may be Pakistan, has any interest or curiosity about India,that includes china.

As far as we understand, Globaltimes is a Chinese govt mouthpiece. If it carries the India news as its headline, which means it is clearly worried about the situation. What Chinese public thinks is anyways of no concern to its govt, since it is not a democracy.

 

[Windjammer]

India, China Military Talks Collapse: "Chinese Side Wasn't Agreeable"

Tensions have been high between India and China following a deadly border battle in June last year in the strategically important Galwan river valley in Ladakh.
All IndiaReported by Vishnu Som, Edited by Divyanshu Dutta RoyUpdated: October 11, 2021 11:50 am IST

Tension between India and China sharply escalated following a standoff in Ladakh last year.


New Delhi:
The latest round of talks between Indian and Chinese military commanders over the standoff in Ladakh broke down on Sunday, the Indian Army said, adding that that the Chinese side was not "agreeable" and "could not provide any forward-looking proposals".
"During the meeting, the Indian side [...] made constructive suggestions for resolving the remaining areas but the Chinese side was not agreeable and also could not provide any forward-looking proposals. The meeting thus did not result in resolution of the remaining areas," an army statement said.
"The two sides have agreed to maintain communications and also to maintain stability on the ground. It is our expectation that the Chinese side will take into account the overall perspective of bilateral relations and will work towards early resolution of the remaining issues while fully abiding by bilateral agreements and protocols," it added.
China also indicated the talks had failed, with a statement from the Chinese military's Western Theater Command saying, "India insists on unreasonable and unrealistic demands, adding difficulties to the negotiations".
China has made "tremendous efforts to ease and cool down the border situation and fully demonstrated its sincerity", it added.
India had pressed for an early disengagement of troops in the remaining friction points in eastern Ladakh at the 13th round of military talks with China that lasted for around eight-and-half hours on Sunday.
A major focus of the Corps Commander-level talks on the Chinese side of the Chushul-Moldo border point in eastern Ladakh was to complete the stalled disengagement at Hot Springs area known as Patrolling Point 15 (PP-15), news agency PTI reported.
The talks, which started at 10:30 am and ended at 7 pm, took place over two months after the last round of negotiations that resulted in the disengagement of troops from Gogra (Patrol Point-17A).
The resolution in Gogra had marked India and China backing down in four of the six flashpoints - the others being Galwan and North and South banks of the Pangong Lake. The standoffs in Depsang and Hot Springs continue.
India has been insisting that the resolution of outstanding issues in all friction points including in Depsang is essential for an overall improvement in ties between the two countries.