China All Su-35 news

[sweetgrape]

Sometime ago, the news that Russia Reports said china is closed to buy SU-35 attract too much indian, then china officially denied that, then the indian and other trolls keep silent some time, now, they grasp the variant news and rush to mock china again!!!
Nothing special, for a loser, mouth is their strongest weapon. A countries that spend more than 30 years on simple LCA, and still not finish the job, and import almost of all key components from other countries. can't produce conventional submarine, then mock china nuke sub! It is ridiculous itself!!!
On the topic. the news that Russia Report published before is fake, Now, you still believe it? Are you nuts?
I don't care now what kind of engine the J20 use, I just care and believe, when they are inducted, the home-made engine is ready for it!!!
And when Indian plane can use the India-grown engine. Maybe you should learn how to produce all your bullets first!!

 

[WS-10 Engine]

Indians still can't make their own bullets.

The opinion of the white man is the most important thing for indians, it's all due to being a slave of the white man since 1700's until today.

Democracy was forced on them, English language was forced on them, British law and education systems were forced on them.
Pretty much everything India has is all British. The Brits eliminated indian culture and forced their culture on Indians.

 

[sweetgrape]

can you copy and steal natural resources by reverse engineering?? your logic is flawed lol

sure we export to you, we import from you, thats how trade works around the world??

next time try using something else for your silly retorts

and ex PM daughter is NOT chinese.. she is australian lol.. she just lives in china

What do you have? you just is a follower of USA, no USA, you are sh!t!!!
So what? Does that mean you control china government? You think your mouth is not smelly?

 

[Akasa]

This is the conclusion that I have arrived at.

Why do some people get so hyped up whenever they hear claims about Su-35 sale? Why do some people still do even after it was denied? Because that's all they can do. There's a saying: "it is the weakest dog that barks the loudest". Instead of showing what they can do, they attempt to put down what others do, and even fail at that. Instead of announcing to the world their own achievements, all they can do is to spread a smear campaign against the achievements of others and bury their heads into sand.

Please realize that whenever India buys something, Indians are happy. When China is claimed to buy something, Chinese are not happy. This says something; that India is happy and accustomed to rely on others while China already knows that it does not need to; hence the anger when claims are made.

China does not need to be like this because their achievements speak for themselves.

 

[manqiangrexue]

This is interesting. Did China enter negotiations with Russia for Su-35? What’s going on? Here are some situations that people have suggested and my analysis on each:

Situation 1: China wants to buy some fighters from Russia to keep the relationship going between the 2 countries.
Supporting arguments: China does not seem to have a requirement for these aircraft. 48 is a small number to order if China, in fact, needed this aircraft because its own jets were not performing well. On the other hand, China would like to strengthen its relationship with Russia to avoid Russia leaning to India.
Refuting arguments: To keep relationships going, there are many deals the China could make with Russia that could benefit China clearly, such as energy deals or a commercial jetliner deal (COMAC929 which Russia has expressed interest in co-developing from its Ilyushin 86). Otherwise, maybe China would order Tu-160 to replace its H-6 or order the SAM-400. These would effectively keep the relationship going without buying 48 odd fighters. Also, if this were the purpose, then the deal should have been reached instead of being officially denied by China to have ever occurred.
Overall Possibility of Situation: 3.75/10 Remotely possible

Situation 2: China wants to buy the aircraft because there are a few components on it such as engines that China would like to learn from.
Supporting arguments: Although China is fielding its own fighter aircraft and in some areas have achieved similar expertise to Russia, there may very well be some parts that China would like to improve on. The Su-35 should embody these improvements unless a PAK-FA deal is reached, which is highly unlikely. Possibly radar and engine are China’s focus on buying this aircraft so that it can learn from them an improve its domestic design. Buying only 2-4 aircraft would be impossible as Russia would not earn enough money to give its secrets away but China does not want to buy 200 aircraft just to learn something so 48 is a compromise.
Refuting arguments: If all China wanted was the engine and radar, Russia just might sell these to China. The Russians certainly sell engines to China so I don’t see why China couldn’t just pay about $6-7 million (guessing based on the $3.5-4 million price for AL-31FN) each for about 200 AL-41 engines. Even paying more ($20 million) each for the engine would be better than buying whole aircraft for it! Cash-strapped Russia could not turn an offer like that down ($4 billion for 200 AL-41). If China wanted the technologies badly, it would accept the no-copy clause and copy it anyway. Reverse-engineering is already illegal; what sense does it make to have a clause stating that something that is already illegal is still illegal? What sense does it make for China to refuse the clause? It would cause the contract to fall apart and everything would be back to square 1. If China wanted to copy them, they would buy them, and break the contract and copy them.
Overall Possibility of Situation: 7.5/10 likely

Situation 3: China feels that its J-10 and J-11 are outmatched by India’s MKI and Rafale, so it needs the Su-35 to level things out.
Supporting arguments: The J-10 and J-11 have not gone to battle and their capabilities have not been officially disclosed so they may perform under par compared to Western and Russian designs.
Refuting arguments: If this was the case, 48 would not be the purchase number. If China felt endangered, it would swiftly purchase 300 Su-35 to defend itself and it would agree not to copy them (however reliable that promise is). It would tell Russia to keep the deal silent, as it did with the MKK deal. Buying more aircraft would make the price cheaper as well. Also, it is unlikely for China to mass-produce aircraft that it felt were sub-par. It would continue to develop more prototypes improving its design while buying Russian jets to defend itself in the meantime. Only after it felt that its domestic fighters were formidable would it begin mass-production as doing so before then is clearly wasting money. Also, with all the Chinese reverse-engineering and espionage from the F-35 program (which is supposed to have the most advanced avionics package of any aircraft, superior to even the Raptor), it is likely that the systems in the J-10 and J-11 are very advanced.
Overall Possibility of Situation: 2/10 Not likely

Situation 4: Russia made it up. Maybe a Chinese general complimented the Su-35 over dinner and Russia did the rest.
Supporting arguments: Russia wants to sell the Su-35. India refused to buy it. So who will? To give the jet a reputation boost, such a story can be made so people believe that China wants the jet. If China wants the jet, then is probably means that it is better than Chinese jets, and the Rafale, which, in both cases, is saying a lot. If it were better than the Rafale, it is likely better than the Typhoon, since the latter lost to the former in the Indian tender. If people believe that the Su-35 were better than all these aircraft, that would bode well for its sales. When it turns out that China does not buy them, Russia can simply say that China refused the no-copy clause so the deal fell apart. Russia says it happened; China says it didn’t. Nobody knows what to believe for sure.
Refuting arguments: Might jeopardize Russian credibility and may slightly upset Sino-Russian relations. After all, if your friend tells people that you tried to buy his homework when you didn’t he can’t expect you to react very happily.
Overall Possibility of Situation: 6.5/10 Could be

Situation 5: China wanted to pretend to do the deal so it could feign weakness to foreign powers so that if conflict arose, China would have its enemies under-estimating it.
Supporting arguments: China has always spoken softly and believes that threatening people by overstating your capabilities is foolish. Rather, China prefers to understate its abilities and let its opponents find out when it’s too late. This is ingrained in Chinese philosophy and all Chinese , from a young age, were taught to speak modestly but improve viciously. At the 2008 Olympics, Chinese coaches stated that China was only a minnow compared to Russia and America at sports but stunned the world with 51 gold medals at closing, beating the US by 15 and more than doubling Russia’s 23. Even Chinese fighters like the J-10A that have been introduced for nearly a decade have not had its performance specs made public. China could feign weakness for free since it knows that Russia would try to stop it from copying and it could refuse, thus making it look like it failed to obtain superior aircraft.
Refuting arguments: Feigning weakness would embolden Taiwan, India, the US, and Japan. This could lead to conflict. With China’s military advancing rapidly, it is smart to bide time rather than promote conflict. Also, feigning weakness could strike a blow to nationalism if it made Chinese citizens feel that the government did not improve its military quickly and well enough.
Overall Possibility of Situation: 5.5 Possible

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

This is interesting. Did China enter negotiations with Russia for Su-35? What’s going on? Here are some situations that people have suggested and my analysis on each:

Situation 1: China wants to buy some fighters from Russia to keep the relationship going between the 2 countries.
Supporting arguments: China does not seem to have a requirement for these aircraft. 48 is a small number to order if China, in fact, needed this aircraft because its own jets were not performing well. On the other hand, China would like to strengthen its relationship with Russia to avoid Russia leaning to India.
Refuting arguments: To keep relationships going, there are many deals the China could make with Russia that could benefit China clearly, such as energy deals or a commercial jetliner deal (COMAC929 which Russia has expressed interest in co-developing from its Ilyushin 86). Otherwise, maybe China would order Tu-160 to replace its H-6 or order the SAM-400. These would effectively keep the relationship going without buying 48 odd fighters. Also, if this were the purpose, then the deal should have been reached instead of being officially denied by China to have ever occurred.
Overall Possibility of Situation: 3.75/10 Remotely possible

Situation 2: China wants to buy the aircraft because there are a few components on it such as engines that China would like to learn from.
Supporting arguments: Although China is fielding its own fighter aircraft and in some areas have achieved similar expertise to Russia, there may very well be some parts that China would like to improve on. The Su-35 should embody these improvements unless a PAK-FA deal is reached, which is highly unlikely. Possibly radar and engine are China’s focus on buying this aircraft so that it can learn from them an improve its domestic design. Buying only 2-4 aircraft would be impossible as Russia would not earn enough money to give its secrets away but China does not want to buy 200 aircraft just to learn something so 48 is a compromise.
Refuting arguments: If all China wanted was the engine and radar, Russia just might sell these to China. The Russians certainly sell engines to China so I don’t see why China couldn’t just pay about $6-7 million (guessing based on the $3.5-4 million price for AL-31FN) each for about 200 AL-41 engines. Even paying more ($20 million) each for the engine would be better than buying whole aircraft for it! Cash-strapped Russia could not turn an offer like that down ($4 billion for 200 AL-41). If China wanted the technologies badly, it would accept the no-copy clause and copy it anyway. Reverse-engineering is already illegal; what sense does it make to have a clause stating that something that is already illegal is still illegal? What sense does it make for China to refuse the clause? It would cause the contract to fall apart and everything would be back to square 1. If China wanted to copy them, they would buy them, and break the contract and copy them.
Overall Possibility of Situation: 7.5/10 likely

Situation 3: China feels that its J-10 and J-11 are outmatched by India’s MKI and Rafale, so it needs the Su-35 to level things out.
Supporting arguments: The J-10 and J-11 have not gone to battle and their capabilities have not been officially disclosed so they may perform under par compared to Western and Russian designs.
Refuting arguments: If this was the case, 48 would not be the purchase number. If China felt endangered, it would swiftly purchase 300 Su-35 to defend itself and it would agree not to copy them (however reliable that promise is). It would tell Russia to keep the deal silent, as it did with the MKK deal. Buying more aircraft would make the price cheaper as well. Also, it is unlikely for China to mass-produce aircraft that it felt were sub-par. It would continue to develop more prototypes improving its design while buying Russian jets to defend itself in the meantime. Only after it felt that its domestic fighters were formidable would it begin mass-production as doing so before then is clearly wasting money. Also, with all the Chinese reverse-engineering and espionage from the F-35 program (which is supposed to have the most advanced avionics package of any aircraft, superior to even the Raptor), it is likely that the systems in the J-10 and J-11 are very advanced.
Overall Possibility of Situation: 2/10 Not likely

Situation 4: Russia made it up. Maybe a Chinese general complimented the Su-35 over dinner and Russia did the rest.
Supporting arguments: Russia wants to sell the Su-35. India refused to buy it. So who will? To give the jet a reputation boost, such a story can be made so people believe that China wants the jet. If China wants the jet, then is probably means that it is better than Chinese jets, and the Rafale, which, in both cases, is saying a lot. If it were better than the Rafale, it is likely better than the Typhoon, since the latter lost to the former in the Indian tender. If people believe that the Su-35 were better than all these aircraft, that would bode well for its sales. When it turns out that China does not buy them, Russia can simply say that China refused the no-copy clause so the deal fell apart. Russia says it happened; China says it didn’t. Nobody knows what to believe for sure.
Refuting arguments: Might jeopardize Russian credibility and may slightly upset Sino-Russian relations. After all, if your friend tells people that you tried to buy his homework when you didn’t he can’t expect you to react very happily.
Overall Possibility of Situation: 6.5/10 Could be

Situation 5: China wanted to pretend to do the deal so it could feign weakness to foreign powers so that if conflict arose, China would have its enemies under-estimating it.
Supporting arguments: China has always spoken softly and believes that threatening people by overstating your capabilities is foolish. Rather, China prefers to understate its abilities and let its opponents find out when it’s too late. This is ingrained in Chinese philosophy and all Chinese , from a young age, were taught to speak modestly but improve viciously. At the 2008 Olympics, Chinese coaches stated that China was only a minnow compared to Russia and America at sports but stunned the world with 51 gold medals at closing, beating the US by 15 and more than doubling Russia’s 23. Even Chinese fighters like the J-10A that have been introduced for nearly a decade have not had its performance specs made public. China could feign weakness for free since it knows that Russia would try to stop it from copying and it could refuse, thus making it look like it failed to obtain superior aircraft.
Refuting arguments: Feigning weakness would embolden Taiwan, India, the US, and Japan. This could lead to conflict. With China’s military advancing rapidly, it is smart to bide time rather than promote conflict. Also, feigning weakness could strike a blow to nationalism if it made Chinese citizens feel that the government did not improve its military quickly and well enough.
Overall Possibility of Situation: 5.5 Possible

It has already been proved to be fake by the Chinese Ministry of Defence.

And your analysis is full of BS.

 

[PaperDragon]

Sigh~ my "proud" Chinese friends, what is the point to argue with that Russian* guy called ptldM3 in English? You know he's probably not even a Russian (You guys probably can tell, if a Russian that is good at English, he must be a westernized Russian. This could be that he isn't a true Russian). If you guys really want to argue with him, please learn some proper English. A: because it's frustrating for someone like me to understand exactly what you are saying. B: Since most of your English is so meaningless that it almost made you guys sound like complete idiots arguing with a god.
If you Chinese guys and that Russian guy want to spread you nationalism about your country, go do it somewhere else but not here. The topic is whether the China has officially denied Su-35 purchase! (Btw, my country is dead! So, I do not care if the new Russia wants to sell those military toys to China)
As what I researched from internet:
A: Chinese officials deny the Russian offers and claim it to be fake news.
B: Russian news confirm the fact that China is buying the Su35 (even after the official deny)
C: According to new news from China (using the Google translates) Russian top general believe it would be better to sell the Su35 jet to Vietnam than China.
D: According the news from Russia: experts believe it is unlikely to sell the next generation Su 35 to China due to violation of arms copyright in China.
As far as I know, btw you Chinese fan boy need to know this, all the number one or indigenous technologies are not originated from China. Just use your latest so called indigenous modern plane C919 as an example, other than the shell of that plane is made in China (because you know, the stolen tech from making Airbus A320) all the control, navigation units, and safety features are almost all made in USA. Oh! the engine is French/American. Oh c'mon are you really going to say that your #1 super computer (that is beaten by the Japanese {Jin} super computer) is filled with American made microchips? If China really wants to develop its technologies, with vast amount of money and smart Asians, how come the result is different? Because your government are bunch corrupt to crooks constantly stealing the money from the hard working class nation to some other country. So stop think China is rich fan boys because China clearly in a starve situation, and your governments just made those values of GDP on top of their mindless heads.
IF you Chinese fan boys really want to compare the living condition to Russian or India, it really says it all~ Russian and India does have a better living standard compare to China, and so is their freedom.
How the **** China's government can even be called "the communist China party" when there is not a single bit close being a communism. Perhaps you Chinese don't even know what communism means.
China is an authoritarian, totalitarian, and mono-party dictatorship. That's it! Don't ever bring up China have freedom because it doesn't have any. If I was in China writing stuff like this... I would probably be shot the next day!

 

[Edevelop]

There are not many Indians here now. So much so for their arguments against China buying it. Well no more of their chest thumping that wasted many threads and uncountable number of posts...

 

[conworldus]

dont worry you wont be shot in china. in china, being retarded is not a crime.

Sigh~ my "proud" Chinese friends, what is the point to argue with that Russian* guy called ptldM3 in English? You know

he's probably not even a Russian (You guys probably can tell, if a Russian that is good at English, he must be a westernized Russian. This could be that he isn't a true Russian). If you guys really want to argue with him, please learn some proper English. A: because it's frustrating for someone like me to understand exactly what you are saying. B: Since most of your English is so meaningless that it almost made you guys sound like complete idiots arguing with a god.
If you Chinese guys and that Russian guy want to spread you nationalism about your country, go do it somewhere else but not here. The topic is whether the China has officially denied Su-35 purchase! (Btw, my country is dead! So, I do not care if the new Russia wants to sell those military toys to China)
As what I researched from internet:
A: Chinese officials deny the Russian offers and claim it to be fake news.
B: Russian news confirm the fact that China is buying the Su35 (even after the official deny)
C: According to new news from China (using the Google translates) Russian top general believe it would be better to sell the Su35 jet to Vietnam than China.
D: According the news from Russia: experts believe it is unlikely to sell the next generation Su 35 to China due to violation of arms copyright in China.
As far as I know, btw you Chinese fan boy need to know this, all the number one or indigenous technologies are not originated from China. Just use your latest so called indigenous modern plane C919 as an example, other than the shell of that plane is made in China (because you know, the stolen tech from making Airbus A320) all the control, navigation units, and safety features are almost all made in USA. Oh! the engine is French/American. Oh c'mon are you really going to say that your #1 super computer (that is beaten by the Japanese {Jin} super computer) is filled with American made microchips? If China really wants to develop its technologies, with vast amount of money and smart Asians, how come the result is different? Because your government are bunch corrupt to crooks constantly stealing the money from the hard working class nation to some other country. So stop think China is rich fan boys because China clearly in a starve situation, and your governments just made those values of GDP on top of their mindless heads.
IF you Chinese fan boys really want to compare the living condition to Russian or India, it really says it all~ Russian and India does have a better living standard compare to China, and so is their freedom.
How the **** China's government can even be called "the communist China party" when there is not a single bit close being a communism. Perhaps you Chinese don't even know what communism means.
China is an authoritarian, totalitarian, and mono-party dictatorship. That's it! Don't ever bring up China have freedom because it doesn't have any. If I was in China writing stuff like this... I would probably be shot the next day!

 

[masoomchichora]

Russia-China Su-35 Fighter Talks Frozen

12:31 17/04/2012
KUALA LUMPUR, April 17 (RIA Novosti)

Negotiations on the sale of Russian advanced Su-35 Flanker-E fighters to China have been put on hold over Beijing’s refusal to buy a large consignment, Russian state-controlled arms exporter Rosoboronexport said on Tuesday.
“We have been promoting the Su-35 fighter on the Chinese market,” Rosoboronexport deputy chief Viktor Komardin said.
“However, China only wants to buy a limited number [of aircraft] whereas we want [to sell] a large consignment to make [the deal] economically viable.”
He offered no indication of the numbers involved
The negotiations have been ongoing for more than one and a half years.
http://en.ria.ru/world/20120417/172871006.html

 

[tvsram1992]

Russia-China Su-35 Fighter Talks Frozen

KUALA LUMPUR, April 17 (RIA Novosti)

Negotiations on the sale of Russian advanced Su-35 Flanker-E fighters to China have been put on hold over Beijing’s refusal to buy a large consignment, Russian state-controlled arms exporter Rosoboronexport said on Tuesday.
“We have been promoting the Su-35 fighter on the Chinese market,” Rosoboronexport deputy chief Viktor Komardin said.
“However, China only wants to buy a limited number [of aircraft] whereas we want [to sell] a large consignment to make [the deal] economically viable.”
He offered no indication of the numbers involved
The negotiations have been ongoing for more than one and a half years.

any link? It would burst the bubbles of few Chinese dreamers present over here.

 

[masoomchichora]

Russia-China Su-35 Fighter Talks Frozen

12:31 17/04/2012
KUALA LUMPUR, April 17 (RIA Novosti)

Negotiations on the sale of Russian advanced Su-35 Flanker-E fighters to China have been put on hold over Beijing’s refusal to buy a large consignment, Russian state-controlled arms exporter Rosoboronexport said on Tuesday.
“We have been promoting the Su-35 fighter on the Chinese market,” Rosoboronexport deputy chief Viktor Komardin said.
“However, China only wants to buy a limited number [of aircraft] whereas we want [to sell] a large consignment to make [the deal] economically viable.”
He offered no indication of the numbers involved
The negotiations have been ongoing for more than one and a half years.
Russia-China Su-35 Fighter Talks Frozen | World | RIA Novosti

 

[masoomchichora]

u can see the link in my above post

 

[Speeder 2]

RIA Novosti has next to zero credibility on China military affairs.

For how many years, how many times, on so many different Chinese military gears, RIA Novosti has

just talked from its backside and been exposed repeatedly as a tabloid news channel.


It gonna bull$hit about this "China want to import Su-35 thing" well into 2025 every other year, trust me.

 

[Ammyy]

RIA Novosti has next to zero credibility on China military affairs.

For how many years, how many times, on so many different Chinese military gears, RIA Novosti has

just talked from its backside and been exposed repeatedly as a tabloid news channel.


It gonna bull$hit about this "China want to import Su-35 thing" well into 2025 every other year, trust me.

Just like you want to purchase arrester for your Aircraft carrier ????