Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Figaro]

we dont have these much designations here````will only being given one once equipt````they are choosing between 130KN and 140KN, all of them with FADAC ````

and the thrust about WS-15 I only know the "roughly" stated number on their paper````the initial type wont be that high as you stated``but anyway, nowadays they are good at surprises``

Regarding the WS-15, they hit the 160kN mark back in 2009 but revised it up to 180, hence the program delay. It wouldn't make sense for the final version to be lower than the test one ...

 

[Akasa]

we dont have these much designations here````will only being given one once equipt````they are choosing between 130KN and 140KN, all of them with FADAC ````

and the thrust about WS-15 I only know the "roughly" stated number on their paper````the initial type wont be that high as you stated``but anyway, nowadays they are good at surprises``

What engine will the J-11D ultimately have?

 

[Figaro]

What engine will the J-11D ultimately have?

I though the J-11D was cancelled ... especially given the J-11B restart.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Correction, only @Asoka

I have ...
WS-10A : 125 - 130 kN
WS-10B+ : 140 kN (pupu said that increased thrust would not compromise service life)
WS-10IPE : 150 kN
WS-15 : 165 - 180 kN (the thrust requirement got increased ... hence program delay)

My assumption for the thrust for final version for the WS-15 will be 190-195 kn just my too cent

 

[rcrmj]

What engine will the J-11D ultimately have?

not quite clear of J-11D and J-10D`````but they are putting quite an effort on them, especially J-10D

 

[Akasa]

not quite clear of J-11D and J-10D`````but they are putting quite an effort on them, especially J-10D

I thought that the J-11D was being put on hold due to both airframe and engine issues.

 

[Figaro]

My assumption for the thrust for final version for the WS-15 will be 190-195 kn just my too cent

Geez ... let's not get ahead of ourselves like that. Kind of reminds me of @Asoka's 210 kN theory . If the J-20 had engines like that, they would surely shoot any American/Japanese plane down like turkeys in WVR ...

 

[rcrmj]

Regarding the WS-15, they hit the 160kN mark back in 2009 but revised it up to 180, hence the program delay. It wouldn't make sense for the final version to be lower than the test one ...

all rumors````not sure, not sure, not sure```even 150KN would make J-20 fly like F-22 and even better when its in supersonic maneuvers```F-22 is our benchmark in terms of maneuverability and F-35 is the benchmark of its avionics```what I say "benchmark" which basically means, the performance outcomes of our "target" version have to be better than theirs````and setting engine thrust at 150KN can serve the purpose``so `````

I thought that the J-11D was being put on hold due to both airframe and engine issues.

there are reasons, but I dont know the excatly````

 

[Ultima Thule]

Geez ... let's not get ahead of ourselves like that. Kind of reminds me of @Asoka's 210 kN theory . If the J-20 had engines like that, they would surely shoot any American/Japanese plane down like turkeys in WVR ...

just my assumptions sir i may be wrong

 

[Figaro]

just my assumptions sir i may be wrong

Let's first get to 180 ... but we know for sure that @Asoka's theory is just

 

[Deino]

Let's first get to 180 ... but we know for sure that @Asoka's theory is just

Let's first finalise design and let that damn thing appear. Then we can talk about any estimations of thrust.

 

[Asoka]

Some member have questioned my image as whether it is totally flat.

I have the same question too. If the plane's wingspan is not flat against the plane of camera, it's wingspan will be less than its actual value, and when I use smaller wingspan value as a reference to figure out the length of the body, it will give a longer body length estimate than the actual value.

The way to check that is to draw a horizontal line across the body and thus divide the body into two halves. And if the wingspan is totally flat against the camera, then the wingspan of the two halves should be equal.

If the nose of the plane tilts either toward or away from the camera, it will have a shorter length than the actual value. The longest length value is when the length of the body is flat against the camera.

Here, this is what I did.

1.) The satellite image gave an estimate of 14.0m wingspan for J-20.

2.) So I resize the ruler until the 7 mark falls exactly within the two red lines of the top half of the body.

3.) Then, I copy the ruler, and place it on the lower half of the wing, and it falls exactly on the 7.1 mark.

4.) So, the two halves of the wing, has a 1cm difference, which indicates the wingspan of J-20 in the image
is almost flat against the camera.

5.) Most people here at PDF believe J-20's overall length is only 20.35 meters as obtained from the blurry satellite picture. And I have calculated the overall length of the J-20 LRIP bird as actually 23.06 meters.

6.) Will this 1 cm difference in wingspan, cause a 2.71 meters difference, in the overall length of the J-20? I really don't think so.

In the image below, I used a measuring tape to measure the overall length and wingspan of J-20, then compute their ratio and multiply it by 14.0, which is the wingspan.

The J-20 LRIP version has a tailboom that is 30cm longer than the version 2001.

 

[STRANGER BIRD]

J-20, # 78274

 

[Deino]

J-20, # 78274

Nice #78274, one of the two birds in splinter-scheme.

 

[Asoka]

China is experimenting mind-reading mind-control technology that could be integrated with J-20 and the 6-Gen. fighter, soon.

The mind reading technology seen in the Firefox movie is fast becoming reality.

http://www.dragons2017.orgs.pub/show/4018

中國「意念控制武器」或成為現實 殲20飛行員將「想哪打哪」
今日科技 2017-09-25 檢舉

原創 123軍情觀察室

用意念指揮作戰武器，如同電腦上玩遊戲，瞬間實現飛彈發射，摧毀對手目標，你相信嗎？由清華大學開發的一款黑科技有望成為現實，讓人直接用大腦意念控制作戰武器系統。

該消息由電腦報最早發布，全稱叫"動態窗穩太視覺誘發電位腦機接口系統"，操作者只需戴上相應的設備，注視著電腦上的模擬鍵盤，即可讓電腦系統檢測出想要打出的那句話，將其翻譯成文字。目前該系統已經實現了人用意念聊天的程度。其方法原理是，電腦虛擬鍵盤上都會以一定的機率注視到，一旦某個鍵的頻率超過某值，就能確定人想去打某個字母時，電腦波就會閃爍強度增大，電腦自動檢測出人要打的字，將其顯示出來。這種技術不同於目前飛行員頭盔顯示系統，那些系統是安裝攝像頭來檢測眼睛聚焦點變化，而這一技術則完全是基於對腦強度的檢測。

早在1990年，著名科學家錢學森就提出"我們要研究人與機器相結合的智能系統，不能把人排除在外，應該是一個人機智能系統"。經過多年不懈努力，我國人機智能系統取得實質性進展。這些技術並非空穴來風，相關技術早在航天航空領域進行過多次試驗。

2016年10月，我國"神州11號"載人飛船在一周多太空飛行中，太空人就藉助網際網路技術與地面指揮部進行了多次信息交互實驗，其中, 最驚人的就是, 太空腦機交互實驗。去年10月, 我國航天員景海鵬, 頭載腦電極，與電腦進行了, 腦機交互實驗，實驗時間, 長達30分鐘。

這也是人類歷史上第一次在太空環境下開展的人機互動實驗。

說到意念控制，不得不提到殲-20。

殲-20是一款具備高隱身性、高態勢感知、高信息化集成、高機動性的第五代戰鬥機。

殲-20研發之初，就借鑑了美國F-22、F-35部分思路，而同時殲-20也有中國科研獨有的創新設計，即"人機合一"理念。

我們常說人工智慧是未來第五代戰機的指標之一，而人工智慧的終極形態即「人機合一"，這是標誌性革命。

目前殲-20的人機理念最直接的就是意念控制系統。

在現代戰爭中，當作戰雙方在戰場上對抗時，生死往往就是一瞬間，誰擁有更快的速度，誰就有可能贏得勝利。

試想，如果殲-20配上人機交換系統，飛行員採取意念控制武器，在複雜多變的環境下通過電腦波操控目標，完成飛彈發射和目標擊毀，將大大提高作戰的勝算率。

如果實現意念控制武器，殲-20將會如虎添翼。
（利刃/沉岩）

延伸閱讀： 中國意念控制武器技術重大進展！只要一個念頭敵人就掛了
新蘭軍武庫

今天，就和大家聊聊咱們中國的意念控制術。這種神奇的意念控制術就是清華大學正研究的新型人機互動技術，全稱「動態窗穩態視覺誘發電位腦機接口系統」。那麼這個神奇的玩意又該怎麼操作呢？首先你需要戴上一頂插滿電路，能夠探測到腦電波的帽子，然後將注意力集中於螢幕中的模擬鍵盤，系統就可以將腦電波信號譯成相應文字。

麼犀利的技術可不單單是讓你聊微信、QQ的，這項偉大發明用途非常廣泛，除了在醫療康復、系統導航等方面應用以外，更可以讓人直接用大腦意念控制作戰武器系統。如今五代機在空中戰場上能傲視群雄、獨孤求敗，究其根本還是靠著自身強大的態勢感知能力，這當中它專用的頭盔更是功勞不小。現代空戰，飛行員除了需要掌握高度、爬升率、姿態等基本信息外，雷達、火控、數據鏈等等各種數據信息也紛至沓來。傳統平視顯示器已經不能滿足高度信息集成戰機要求了，平視顯示器很不利於飛行員順暢地操控飛機。如今先進頭盔瞄準顯示系統正彌補了這一缺憾，這種頭盔把平視顯示器顯示圖像，直接投影到頭盔前面，飛行員不管腦袋轉到那個方向都能看到飛機所有信息。

但這種頭盔目前還面臨著兩個困境。無論哪種瞄準系統鎖定目標後，還必須手動確認目標，並按發射按鈕，這就延緩了鎖定到發射的速度，還有，為了集成儘可能多的信息，飛行員頭盔功能越來越複雜，重量也隨之增加。

美國的F-35把目標信息、關鍵的飛行數據以及夜視能力整合到頭盔里，為了瞅誰打誰，眼球檢測設備裝在了頭盔中，為了檢測飛行員頭部的扭動，還必須在座艙下安裝一個磁場發生器，這樣搗鼓下來結果就是頭盔非常難用，效果非盡人意。

為什麼呢？您各位想想頭盔重量很大，戰時如果加上高機動的幾個G過載的話，搞不好脖子都被會扭斷，那酸爽誰用誰知道，和美國的F-35面臨的困境相同，殲-20頭盔為保障眾多傳感器的集成，控制頭盔重量也成了一大難題。

清華大學這種科技被運用頭盔顯示系統後，現在的磁場發生器和眼球轉動儀器都將被拋棄，利用這種腦機結合工程技術，電腦上虛擬鍵盤上每個鍵都會以一定的機率注視到，一旦某個鍵的頻率超過某閾值，就能確定飛行員的想法，電腦波就會閃爍強度增大，電腦自動檢測出飛行員需要信息，並將其顯示出來。

腦電波強度, 即可告訴, 系統飛行員, 想做什麼動作，想打哪裡，這種空戰, 簡直就像, 玩VR遊戲一樣，熟練操作後, 反應的靈敏迅速, 讓傳統戰機, 根本無法與其對抗。