Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Han Patriot]

Deino,

Russia wouldn't sell AL-31 in parts, the documentary clearly states the core components and full assembly for J-20 engines were done in Liming. Then it went on to say there are 10 000+ components for an aircraft engine and it is complex. This is not just a case of a special engine nozzle attached to AL-31. Then it started showing the manufacturing machines which are clearly for full engine fabrication. Then it went to WP-14 Kunlun to mellow down and camouflage the report. This is so obvious a sneak peek strip tease revelation, very typical of Chinese official media, they want to tell you something but they are not authorized to tell you the full story. I don't know how to explain this to you, but if you are Chinese, listening to those wording and context, it is very obvious they are telling you the goddamn engine is Chinese.

OK can we redefine the bet,

What if this engine is not AL-31 and also not WS-15, but an intermediate domestic engine, WS-XX? Will you still resign?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Simply not. Again, reading comprehension is not Your topic; isn't it ??

I said I will resign - and if You try to be objective by researching when this bet was first mentioned in any post (aka on 15. September 2015 (https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chinese-aero-engine-information-thread.300409/page-11#post-7649950), when I said I would bet my membership if it uses a "version of the WS-10 Taihang".

This bet was again raised on 1. December (https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...news-discussions.111471/page-330#post-7946853) when I added "that it is a special customised version of the AL-31FN."

In September 2016 I even especially mentioned (https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...news-discussions.111471/page-399#post-8728524) that "the J-20 will enter with domestic engines is not a question, that's IMO a fact ... but only a matter of time until the WS-15 will be ready."

To be precicely, my bet was: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...news-discussions.111471/page-399#post-8728524




So I beg You to be fair and as long as any report only says "an engine build in China" there's nothing decided.

By the way, none of You fan-boys ever wanted to join and bet to resign if it is not a WS-15 from day-one, if it is not that hyper-mega-monster 24t-engine ! So who is coward ?

Remember this post just "recently" in March 2017?:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...news-discussions.111471/page-534#post-9293753

Deino

Can you prove that this indenginous engine is version of AL-31M2? And why China can't install domestic engine on J-20? You have no logic I an sorry to says sir

Deino,

Russia wouldn't sell AL-31 in parts, the documentary clearly states the core components and full assembly for J-20 engines were done in Liming. Then it went on to say there are 10 000+ components for an aircraft engine and it is complex. This is not just a case of a special engine nozzle attached to AL-31. Then it started showing the manufacturing machines which are clearly for full engine fabrication. Then it went to WP-14 Kunlun to mellow down and camouflage the report. This is so obvious a sneak peek strip tease revelation, very typical of Chinese official media, they want to tell you something but they are not authorized to tell you the full story. I don't know how to explain this to you, but if you are Chinese, listening to those wording and context, it is very obvious they are telling you the goddamn engine is Chinese.

OK can we redefine the bet,

What if this engine is not AL-31 and also not WS-15, but an intermediate domestic engine, WS-XX? Will you still resign?

He don't understand you bro, he wearing a blindfold on his eyes

 

[Deino]

Can you prove that this indenginous engine is version of AL-31M2? And why China can't install domestic engine on J-20? You have no logic I an sorry to says sir

Again, I cannot prove it with a written confirmation by either CAC, the PLAAF or Salut, but here no-one can prove this mystery WS-15 theory, no-one has a prove for a hybrid engine and even more no-one can prove this ridiculous claim of delivering 24t of thrust. So in essence as long as the parties involved and the details revealed no-one of these concurring parties can prove anything.

But in contrast to Your theory which is technically unlikely, impossible or has at least no precedent, my theory if correct has certain arguments that bake them: there is and was a close cooperation between CAC and Salut, it fits technically and is more likely and feasible than any other theory and it fits externally too.

I know You don't like it but so far You always avoided answering any question, why You think this obscure report of 24t is correct, why a TV-report that only mentions "manufactured in CHina" and nothing more has to be the WS-15?

I agree and I'm fully aware - thanks to @Han Patriot - that there is much more reading and telling between the lines and the way of making something public is totally different to the West, but that does not mean automatically that everything "not said" is a prove for the wildest speculation.

Anyway, let us return to the J-20 and its powerplant until true facts are presented, since all we got during the last days is a more than vague confirmation of "being build in China"; nothing more.

Deino

 

[帅的一匹]

Again, I cannot prove it with a written confirmation by either CAC, the PLAAF or Salut, but here no-one can prove this mystery WS-15 theory, no-one has a prove for a hybrid engine and even more no-one can prove this ridiculous claim of delivering 24t of thrust. So in essence as long as the parties involved and the details revealed no-one of these concurring parties can prove anything.

But in contrast to Your theory which is technically unlikely, impossible or has at least no precedent, my theory if correct has certain arguments that bake them: there is and was a close cooperation between CAC and Salut, it fits technically and is more likely and feasible than any other theory and it fits externally too.

I know You don't like it but so far You always avoided answering any question, why You think this obscure report of 24t is correct, why a TV-report that only mentions "manufactured in CHina" and nothing more has to be the WS-15?

I agree and I'm fully aware - thanks to @Han Patriot - that there is much more reading and telling between the lines and the way of making something public is totally different to the West, but that does not mean automatically that everything "not said" is a prove for the wildest speculation.

Anyway, let us return to the J-20 and its powerplant until true facts are presented, since all we got during the last days is a more than vague confirmation of "being build in China"; nothing more.

Deino

At least you shall admit WS10b fit on J20 now, how difficult is that?

 

[Ultima Thule]

Again, I cannot prove it with a written confirmation by either CAC, the PLAAF or Salut, but here no-one can prove this mystery WS-15 theory, no-one has a prove for a hybrid engine and even more no-one can prove this ridiculous claim of delivering 24t of thrust. So in essence as long as the parties involved and the details revealed no-one of these concurring parties can prove anything.

But in contrast to Your theory which is technically unlikely, impossible or has at least no precedent, my theory if correct has certain arguments that bake them: there is and was a close cooperation between CAC and Salut, it fits technically and is more likely and feasible than any other theory and it fits externally too.

I know You don't like it but so far You always avoided answering any question, why You think this obscure report of 24t is correct, why a TV-report that only mentions "manufactured in CHina" and nothing more has to be the WS-15?

I agree and I'm fully aware - thanks to @Han Patriot - that there is much more reading and telling between the lines and the way of making something public is totally different to the West, but that does not mean automatically that everything "not said" is a prove for the wildest speculation.

Anyway, let us return to the J-20 and its powerplant until true facts are presented, since all we got during the last days is a more than vague confirmation of "being build in China"; nothing more.

Deino

If they Install upgraded and homemade version of AL-31MA they didn't called it indenginous engine but reverse engineered engine, there are 500+ mature WS-10 in J-11 and J-10 series, give me the reason that China can't install WS-10 version on J-20 let me explain an example to,, you if Germany started a strategic project like J-20 project of China but without engine technology than you choose foreign engine to reduce a risk initially like French or British engine than works on new and interim engine is already begun, there is a one example of your part of the world sir its a RAFALE project Sir which uses F-404, then initial M-88 and than matured M-88

 

[Han Patriot]

Again, I cannot prove it with a written confirmation by either CAC, the PLAAF or Salut, but here no-one can prove this mystery WS-15 theory, no-one has a prove for a hybrid engine and even more no-one can prove this ridiculous claim of delivering 24t of thrust. So in essence as long as the parties involved and the details revealed no-one of these concurring parties can prove anything.

But in contrast to Your theory which is technically unlikely, impossible or has at least no precedent, my theory if correct has certain arguments that bake them: there is and was a close cooperation between CAC and Salut, it fits technically and is more likely and feasible than any other theory and it fits externally too.

I know You don't like it but so far You always avoided answering any question, why You think this obscure report of 24t is correct, why a TV-report that only mentions "manufactured in CHina" and nothing more has to be the WS-15?

I agree and I'm fully aware - thanks to @Han Patriot - that there is much more reading and telling between the lines and the way of making something public is totally different to the West, but that does not mean automatically that everything "not said" is a prove for the wildest speculation.

Anyway, let us return to the J-20 and its powerplant until true facts are presented, since all we got during the last days is a more than vague confirmation of "being build in China"; nothing more.

Deino

See 0:12

Newly revealed footage of thrust vectored engine. Can someone print screen that image and post it here. I don't know how to do it.

 

[samsara]

See 0:12

Newly revealed footage of thrust vectored engine. Can someone print screen that image and post it here. I don't know how to do it.

On your service call, Sir! For text, please add as deemed necessary, I ain't versed on that

 

[Han Patriot]

On your service call, Sir!

No print screen 0:12 to 0:17...it shows the thrust vectored petals. One of the engine flaps is pointing upwards

 

[samsara]

No print screen 0:12 to 0:17...it shows the thrust vectored petals. One of the engine flaps is pointing upwards

Screenshots between 00:00:12 ~ 00:00:17

 

[Han Patriot]

Screenshots between 00:00:12 ~ 00:00:17

Nice. Deino, what say you? It's pretty obvious the flaps are vectored..

 

[kuge]

Screenshots between 00:00:12 ~ 00:00:17

guys that's simply a model.
also the video is a fan boys' art. Take it with a tea spoon of salt...

 

[Beast]

guys that's simply a model.
also the video is a fan boys' art. Take it with a tea spoon of salt...

Its PLAAF model build for an exhibit. Not a fan art model.

 

[Deino]

At least you shall admit WS10b fit on J20 now, how difficult is that?

It is not difficult and indeed the WS-10B "shall" fit, but from all info and details I know it is not a WS-10-derivate. At least the WS-10B shown at the most recent Zhuhai AirShow was very much different (esp. the nozzle). So let me ask in return: is it so difficult to admit, that the J-20's nozzle is very much different to this alleged WS-10B !

also via http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...ina-air-show-shows-latest-fighter-jet-engines

Its PLAAF model build for an exhibit. Not a fan art model.

Any proof for that ?? It is so lousily build. I cannot believe that the PLAAF would show such a model. Even more even if it is a true model, the current pedals on any demonstrator, prototype and LRIP J-20 is completely different. So even if such a nozzle exists and was already tested, it is by far not operational yet.

Deino

 

[帅的一匹]

It is not difficult and indeed the WS-10B "shall" fit, but from all info and details I know it is not a WS-10-derivate. At least the WS-10B shown at the most recent Zhuhai AirShow was very much different (esp. the nozzle). So let me ask in return: is it so difficult to admit, that the J-20's nozzle is very much different to this alleged WS-10B !

View attachment 399929 View attachment 399930
also via http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...ina-air-show-shows-latest-fighter-jet-engines




Any proof for that ?? It is so lousily build. I cannot believe that the PLAAF would show such a model. Even more even if it is a true model, the current pedals on any demonstrator, prototype and LRIP J-20 is completely different. So even if such a nozzle exists and was already tested, it is by far not operational yet.

Deino

Maybe it's WS15.

 

[星海军事]

Simply not. Again, reading comprehension is not Your topic; isn't it ??

I said I will resign - and if You try to be objective by researching when this bet was first mentioned in any post (aka on 15. September 2015 (https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chinese-aero-engine-information-thread.300409/page-11#post-7649950), when I said I would bet my membership if it uses a "version of the WS-10 Taihang".

This bet was again raised on 1. December (https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...news-discussions.111471/page-330#post-7946853) when I added "that it is a special customised version of the AL-31FN."

In September 2016 I even especially mentioned (https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...news-discussions.111471/page-399#post-8728524) that "the J-20 will enter with domestic engines is not a question, that's IMO a fact ... but only a matter of time until the WS-15 will be ready."

To be precicely, my bet was: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...news-discussions.111471/page-399#post-8728524




So I beg You to be fair and as long as any report only says "an engine build in China" there's nothing decided.

By the way, none of You fan-boys ever wanted to join and bet to resign if it is not a WS-15 from day-one, if it is not that hyper-mega-monster 24t-engine ! So who is coward ?

Remember this post just "recently" in March 2017?:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chen...news-discussions.111471/page-534#post-9293753

Deino

Every time I read this post, I receive a deeper understanding of the following quote,

„Zwei Dinge sind unendlich, das Universum und die menschliche Dummheit, aber bei dem Universum bin ich mir noch nicht ganz sicher.“