Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[j20blackdragon]

The J-20 has been designed from the very beginning to have very large intakes because the engines (whatever they are) have large airflow requirements. Am I wrong about the size of the J-20 intakes? Does the AL-31 require intakes this large? I have no idea because I'm not a supercomputer. But I can tell you the F135 requires much more airflow than previous engines.

 

[Asoka]

The size and shape of the intake is directly related to the airflow requirements of the engine. When the General Electric F110 engine was first fitted on Block 30 F-16 models, it was soon realized that the engine required more airflow than the Pratt & Whitney F100. The intake was enlarged to increase the airflow. The F-16 has two different intakes.

Now we look at the F-16 from the back with the engine removed. The engine bay has very specific dimensions. The inlet diameter has very specific dimensions.

Let's pretend for a moment that the J-20 was designed and tested for the last 6 years only on the AL-31. Does anyone actually believe the next generation WS-15 can simply be popped into the engine bay and everything will be fine? If you say yes, you must believe the WS-15 has the same dimensions, inlet diameter, and airflow requirements as the AL-31. You would also have to believe that such a small engine will be able to provide enough dry thrust for the large J-20 to supercruise.

"You would also have to believe that such a small engine will be able to provide enough dry thrust for the large J-20 to supercruise."

And capable of lifting a 20+ tons plane vertically, in a sustained manner, without the use of the afterburner.

 

[ptldM3]

"You would also have to believe that such a small engine will be able to provide enough dry thrust for the large J-20 to supercruise."

And capable of lifting a 20+ tons plane vertically, in a sustained manner, without the use of the afterburner.

Yes just like the 20+ SU-35 can sustain a vertical climb without afterburners but again continue the fanboy delusionals that the J-20 must have 420kn thrust because it can pull up and go vertical which literally any aircraft on this earth can do, even airlines or cargo aircraft can pull up vertical, something I have demonstrated to you already, and mind you, they have no afterburners and horrible T/W ration.


@Deino @gambit perhaps this guy put me on his ignor list because he continues to push the same narrative after being rubuked multiple times. He challenged someone that if they prove that a 20+ ton aircraft can go into a vertical climb without afterburners that he would "shut up" I gave him proof and he still continues his conspiracies

 

[samsara]

China: New Combat Aircraft J-20 Officially On Duty

By Editors, Special Forces - 2017-03-16

China's revolutionary fifth-generation combat aircraft takes off!

Is the J-20 superior to F-22 and F-35?

Is the USA's lead increasingly fading?

Does China now own the full-fledged stealth technology?

J-20 is officially serving the Chinese Air Force

China's new 5th generation J-20 combat aircraft has officially started its service.

The Chinese military confirmed this commissioning of the modern fighter jet last week.

The J-20 Fighter is supposed to bring China on par with America's F-22 and F-35.

Most experts doubt, however, that this will really be the case.

If there is really an open conflict with Taiwan or the USA, the new J-20 class can certainly claim against classic F-16 in certain circumstances (weather / radar).

The fact that the J-20 can actually be against the F-22 or even F-35, is hitherto rather doubted.

How strong is the Chinese J-20 really?

The American F-22 and F-35 are a complete system, integrated into radar capacities, synchronized networks, artificial intelligence, and stealth capabilities.

The question as to whether the Chinese new combat aircraft can actually stand up to the advanced systems of the USAF is therefore somewhat more complex than simply a "faster, stronger, wider".

The J-20 is certainly a significant step for the Chinese Air Force. Globally, the aircraft is regarded as a capable model of the 5th generation.

The Chinese government, however, is very much concerned about the actual performance of its new development.

Apart from some flight demonstrations, basic details of the aircraft class and euphoric press releases, there is little objective information on the actual capabilities of the fighter jet.

The stealth skills, for example, make the consensus of the Western experts more critical.

The J-20 certainly has basic stealth technology, but not at the level of American models.

The radar of the Chinese is not yet as developed as the US.

Therefore, the model has very secure "stealth" characteristics, but should not be a pure stealth fighter.

Is the USA's lead waning more and more?

Moreover, quite a few experts are surprised at the extreme development of the J-20 in a very short time.

Theoretically it is quite possible that China catches up so quickly.

However, whether it is really realistic that a system of such complexity, similar to the F-22 and F-35, is completed in a short period of time and that the official statements on the J-20 actually correspond to fully technical reality is another question.

So far there are 5 first models of the J-20, which are relatively "operational".

Production is slow and laborious for Chinese manufacturers.

Accordingly, it will take some time to know more about the aircraft and its actual abilities will be objectively better assessed.

In the US, however, the dwindling distance between the US military and the Chinese is seen with growing concern.

The fast commissioning of the J-20 will not improve these concerns.


From the Special Forces, a German language publication owned by the Black Harp Media, specializing in the world strategy military "Special Forces News".

~~~~~~~~

An "interesting mixing" of some faith or perceptive matters with some degrees of objectivity (just peruse the article to read the implied message between the lines)... however, as long as China has not decided to divulge in totality or expose anything spectacular I am afraid that the thick cloud of doubt will linger around for many years to come.

The other question remains, will China "care" to clear all these "clouds of doubt" in particular within the circles of the Western experts and skeptics or how far it agrees to reveal, or does such clearance really serves its objective? For there's no export urgency to come into this equation.

It's of anyone's guess I think and once again, the unfolding time is the most accurate analyst!

 

[Pepsi Cola]

China: New Combat Aircraft J-20 Officially On Duty

By Editors, Special Forces - 2017-03-16

China's revolutionary fifth-generation combat aircraft takes off!

Is the J-20 superior to F-22 and F-35?

Is the USA's lead increasingly fading?

Does China now own the full-fledged stealth technology?

J-20 is officially serving the Chinese Air Force

China's new 5th generation J-20 combat aircraft has officially started its service.

The Chinese military confirmed this commissioning of the modern fighter jet last week.

The J-20 Fighter is supposed to bring China on par with America's F-22 and F-35.

Most experts doubt, however, that this will really be the case.

If there is really an open conflict with Taiwan or the USA, the new J-20 class can certainly claim against classic F-16 in certain circumstances (weather / radar).

The fact that the J-20 can actually be against the F-22 or even F-35, is hitherto rather doubted.

How strong is the Chinese J-20 really?

The American F-22 and F-35 are a complete system, integrated into radar capacities, synchronized networks, artificial intelligence, and stealth capabilities.

The question as to whether the Chinese new combat aircraft can actually stand up to the advanced systems of the USAF is therefore somewhat more complex than simply a "faster, stronger, wider".

The J-20 is certainly a significant step for the Chinese Air Force. Globally, the aircraft is regarded as a capable model of the 5th generation.

The Chinese government, however, is very much concerned about the actual performance of its new development.

Apart from some flight demonstrations, basic details of the aircraft class and euphoric press releases, there is little objective information on the actual capabilities of the fighter jet.

The stealth skills, for example, make the consensus of the Western experts more critical.

The J-20 certainly has basic stealth technology, but not at the level of American models.

The radar of the Chinese is not yet as developed as the US.

Therefore, the model has very secure "stealth" characteristics, but should not be a pure stealth fighter.

Is the USA's lead waning more and more?

Moreover, quite a few experts are surprised at the extreme development of the J-20 in a very short time.

Theoretically it is quite possible that China catches up so quickly.

However, whether it is really realistic that a system of such complexity, similar to the F-22 and F-35, is completed in a short period of time and that the official statements on the J-20 actually correspond to fully technical reality is another question.

So far there are 5 first models of the J-20, which are relatively "operational".

Production is slow and laborious for Chinese manufacturers.

Accordingly, it will take some time to know more about the aircraft and its actual abilities will be objectively better assessed.

In the US, however, the dwindling distance between the US military and the Chinese is seen with growing concern.

The fast commissioning of the J-20 will not improve these concerns.


From the Special Forces, a German language publication owned by the Black Harp Media, specializing in the world strategy military "Special Forces News".

~~~~~~~~

An "interesting mixing" of some faith or perceptive matters with some degrees of objectivity (just peruse the article to read the implied message between the lines)... however, as long as China has not decided to divulge in totality or expose anything spectacular I am afraid that the thick cloud of doubt will linger around for many years to come.

The other question remains, will China "care" to clear all these "clouds of doubt" in particular within the Western skeptics or how far it agrees to reveal, or does such clearance really serves its objective? For there's no export urgency to come into this equation.

It's of anyone's guess I think and once again, the unfolding time is the most accurate analyst!

What the hell does "basic stealth technology" even mean?

 

[Ultima Thule]

What the hell does "basic stealth technology" even mean?

I think he is referring to engine which is not stealth oriented

 

[52051]

The American fake new journalists are just a bunch of sad wankers.

I have confirmed information that J-20, at least from front area are way more stealthy than F-22/35, and J-20 use active plasma stealth on critical parts (note the distinctive white band area on the fighters? China solved the energy/weight/heat-problem of plasma stealth through means of utilization of highly active ionized gas tube covering the critical area of the fighter).

The brainwashed americans will have a rude awakening against China in the near future.

 

[gambit]

The American fake new journalists are just a bunch of sad wankers.

I have confirmed information that J-20, at least from front area are way more stealthy than F-22/35, and J-20 use active plasma stealth on critical parts (note the distinctive white band area on the fighters? China solved the energy/weight/heat-problem of plasma stealth through means of utilization of highly active ionized gas tube covering the critical area of the fighter).

The brainwashed americans will have a rude awakening against China in the near future.

There is no way outside of official channels that uses official measurement data of ALL aircrafts to definitively say which is 'stealthier'. I have explained the foundation of radar detection and RCS control methods yrs ago. Nobody, I guess except the Chinese, believes the J-20 is better than the F-22 or F-35 in the RCS realm.

We are crossing into science fiction.

 

[pts_m_h_2016]

There is no way outside of official channels that uses official measurement data of ALL aircrafts to definitively say which is 'stealthier'. I have explained the foundation of radar detection and RCS control methods yrs ago. Nobody, I guess except the Chinese, believes the J-20 is better than the F-22 or F-35 in the RCS realm.

We are crossing into science fiction.

Let it be.

This sad corner is the only avenue they can find to express their joy about some imaginary accomplishment.

Outside it, the misery of the real life awaits.

 

[Deino]

The J-20 has been designed from the very beginning to have very large intakes because the engines (whatever they are) have large airflow requirements. Am I wrong about the size of the J-20 intakes? Does the AL-31 require intakes this large? I have no idea because I'm not a supercomputer. But I can tell you the F135 requires much more airflow than previous engines.

IMO a conclusion to say what is "very large" or "larger than ..." and especially in comparison "larger to what" can only be done by an exact measurment of the specific intakes. As such to say the J-20 has a "huge" intake and to conclude it therefore must be an engine in the thrust-class of the F135 is similar impossible to Asok's claim it is a "prolonged, sustained climb and therefore it must have a +210kN thrust engine"!

 

[52051]

There is no way outside of official channels that uses official measurement data of ALL aircrafts to definitively say which is 'stealthier'. I have explained the foundation of radar detection and RCS control methods yrs ago. Nobody, I guess except the Chinese, believes the J-20 is better than the F-22 or F-35 in the RCS realm.

We are crossing into science fiction.

First all, I just speak out about my opinions based on the information I got about China's J-20 has controlled plasma stealth installed, coupled with all other convential means of stealth.

Secondly, it seems that your fake news reporters love to make countless such assements despite of no knowledge in any of the area.

 

[gambit]

First all, I just speak out about my opinions based on the information I got about China's J-20 has controlled plasma stealth installed, coupled with all other convential means of stealth.

You have your opinion of the idea of 'plasma stealth', which I think you took from others.

But here is mine...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_antenna

The plasma antenna is a much more technically plausible solution for 'active stealth' than the idea of creating a plasma cloud that would envelope the aircraft while flying at several hundred kts, which is amusing to say the least.

I also hinted a looooong time ago that the US would jump over the plasma antenna method and go with the semiconductor path -- that of creating active electronics circuits at the substrate level.

Secondly, it seems that your fake news reporters love to make countless such assements despite of no knowledge in any of the area.

Like you ?

 

[Deino]

First all, I just speak out about my opinions based on the information I got about China's J-20 has controlled plasma stealth installed, coupled with all other convential means of stealth.

Secondly, it seems that your fake news reporters love to make countless such assements despite of no knowledge in any of the area.

Funny that You call Western report as FAKE news and condemn them, but so far we have NOT a single conclusive sign that Plasma-stealth even exists for the J-20!?? And You surely will not be allowed or able to prove it ?

 

[Ultima Thule]

The American fake new journalists are just a bunch of sad wankers.

I have confirmed information that J-20, at least from front area are way more stealthy than F-22/35, and J-20 use active plasma stealth on critical parts (note the distinctive white band area on the fighters? China solved the energy/weight/heat-problem of plasma stealth through means of utilization of highly active ionized gas tube covering the critical area of the fighter).

The brainwashed americans will have a rude awakening against China in the near future.

How can J-20 detect enemy target in presence of plasma generators because plasma absorb all electromagnetic waves, tell me please how can J-20 find its targets in the presence of plasma generator specially with EOTS,so J-20 is not equipped with PLASMA SH!T, you live in your fairy world, wet dream and wishful thinking , go kid go play your toys this place is not for yours

 

[j20blackdragon]

The size and shape of the intake is directly related to the airflow requirements of the engine. When the General Electric F110 engine was first fitted on Block 30 F-16 models, it was soon realized that the engine required more airflow than the Pratt & Whitney F100. The intake was enlarged to increase the airflow. The F-16 has two different intakes.

Now we look at the F-16 from the back with the engine removed. The engine bay has very specific dimensions. The inlet diameter has very specific dimensions.

Let's pretend for a moment that the J-20 was designed and tested for the last 6 years only on the AL-31. Does anyone actually believe the next generation WS-15 can simply be popped into the engine bay and everything will be fine? If you say yes, you must believe the WS-15 has the same dimensions, inlet diameter, and airflow requirements as the AL-31. You would also have to believe that such a small engine will be able to provide enough dry thrust for the large J-20 to supercruise.

Once again, the size and shape of the intakes are directly related to the airflow requirements of the engine. If you design oversized intakes, you add unnecessary weight to the airframe and drastically increase drag. If you design undersized intakes, you will lose thrust due to insufficient airflow. These are the laws of physics.

The J-20 has been designed with massive intakes since day one.

I don't know the airflow requirements of the AL-31, nor do I know the airflow requirements for the WS-15. But I know a large intake when I see one. And I can also tell you that the F135 has much greater airflow requirements than previous engines. Without airflow, the F135's thrust would drop dramatically. This I can guarantee.