Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[aliaselin]

No, ... I would bet my membership here at this forum on this issue. It can't be a WS-15 ... this engines was not even tested on a Il-76 and You think - IMO pure wishful thinking - that it even powers a J-20 right now. Honestly, but that is IMO simply naïve.

Again I will expand my bet. It is a specialised version of the AL-31FN ... a WS-10 simply can't be ... but I already explained You so often the differences.

Deino

I agree with you that it is not WS-15 but you argument is not correct, too. WS-15 is not necessarily tested on a IL-76, eg, WS-13 and minshan(possiblely WS-17) are not tested on IL-76

 

[S10]

How can you be 100% it's not WS-15. Have you see a real WS-15 works before? Is your conclusion based on observation but not facts? Lol. I hope you take back ur 100% claim.

WS-15 wouldn't get ready this quickly. It's more likely WS-10B with FADEC and increased thrust.

 

[phancong]

How would they wouldnt want to hide the test. They want you to believe what you want to believe. Letting you think China aviation propulsion is weak can be a surprise for enemy.

No info of real test of ASBM ever leak, what we we have seen are just few possible tested site but we do know real ASBM has tested before on real sea. They like to keep you in suspend and keep you guessing China real military depth. It will always be part of the deception doctrine borrow heavily from Art of War.

It's a jet engines development not some secret weapons that you want to keep a secret.

 

[Beast]

It's a jet engines development not some secret weapons that you want to keep a secret.

Jet engine indeed is a secret. The thrust, abilities ,lifespan will let the enemy guess , always part of PLA art of war of deception.

 

[slng]

to keep your enemy guessing is the art of war by itself even your just holding a donkey card

 

[phancong]

Jet engine indeed is a secret. The thrust, abilities ,lifespan will let the enemy guess , always part of PLA art of war of deception.[/QUOTE



Ok lol

 

[scherz]

to keep your enemy guessing is the art of war by itself even your just holding a donkey card

As you can see it works...

 

[Deino]

I agree with you that it is not WS-15 but you argument is not correct, too. WS-15 is not necessarily tested on a IL-76, eg, WS-13 and minshan(possiblely WS-17) are not tested on IL-76

I agree with You that my conclusion of an AL-31FN is not 100% for sure, but my argument - against any WS-10XYZ or even WS-15 - is based on several assumptions and - honestly - the argument, "silver" or now "dark colour" alone is not conclusive if all other physical details are different to any WS-10 we know but more akin to all AL_31 we know, ... besides the different colour; to admit, that's indeed a mystery.

But IMO it is much more likely that it is a specialised AL-31FN with some sort of modernised nozzle since the number of pedals, the afterburner-/flameholder structure is nearly identical, even more the typical screaming sound and flame are (very) similar, whereas all WS-10 so far have a different number of pedals, the typical inner structure of the WS-10 is even completely missing.

Again I only can say what's IMO the most likely engine based on several different factors ... but "a different coulour" alone so it MUST be a Chinese engine, simply does not makes sense.

Deino

 

[aliaselin]

I agree with You that my conclusion of an AL-31FN is not 100% for sure, but my argument - against any WS-10XYZ or even WS-15 - is based on several assumptions and - honestly - the argument, "silver" or now "dark colour" alone is not conclusive if all other physical details are different to any WS-10 we know but more akin to all AL_31 we know, ... besides the different colour; to admit, that's indeed a mystery.

But IMO it is much more likely that it is a specialised AL-31FN with some sort of modernised nozzle since the number of pedals, the afterburner-/flameholder structure is nearly identical, even more the typical screaming sound and flame are (very) similar, whereas all WS-10 so far have a different number of pedals, the typical inner structure of the WS-10 is even completely missing.

Again I only can say what's IMO the most likely engine based on several different factors ... but "a different coulour" alone so it MUST be a Chinese engine, simply does not makes sense.

Deino

I think you misunderstood my argument. I do not say it is not AL-31. WS-15 will be more western look-like.

 

[Deino]

Oh, ... then sorry !

 

[j20blackdragon]

If the Russians were providing special engines for the J-20 program, shouldn't they have blabbed about it by now? They talk about everything else.

Salyut has plenty of news regarding the AL-31FN series-3.

JOINT-STOCK COMPANY «GAS-TURBINE ENGINEERING RESEARCH AND PRODUCTION CENTER «SALUT» | NEWS | NEWS | FSUE “Gas-Turbine Engineering RPC “Salut” has successfully completed the first phase of engine longevity and performance bench tests in view of future deliveries of a new version of AL-31FN Series 3.

JOINT-STOCK COMPANY «GAS-TURBINE ENGINEERING RESEARCH AND PRODUCTION CENTER «SALUT» | NEWS | NEWS | The FSUE “GTE-RPC “Salut”-produced AL-31FN series-3 engine receives code letter “O1”

Salyut even has a dedicated AL-31FN page with specs and a picture of a J-10A.

JOINT-STOCK COMPANY «GAS-TURBINE ENGINEERING RESEARCH AND PRODUCTION CENTER «SALUT» | Production | AEROENGINES | AL-31FN

Why no mention of the J-20 at all?

 

[Deino]

If the Russians were providing special engines for the J-20 program, shouldn't they have blabbed about it by now? They talk about everything else.

....

Why no mention of the J-20 at all?

NO, how long did it take until first official reports about Salut's involvement in the J-10A was confirmed ? I'm sure in a few years they will reveal all the background, but not yet.

Deino

 

[j20blackdragon]

The J-20 is no longer in its early stages of development. If rumors are correct, production begins next year. I find it very hard to believe that Salyut will remain silent about the fact that they are providing next-gen engines for the production J-20 beginning next year. On their website, they announce tests and milestones concerning the AL-31FN Series 3. But no mention for their own participation in China's highest profile aircraft program?

 

[Deino]

Maybe simply since this was an contractual paragraph !?

 

[j20blackdragon]

NO, how long did it take until first official reports about Salut's involvement in the J-10A was confirmed ? I'm sure in a few years they will reveal all the background, but not yet.

Deino

I think the J-10 entered production in mid-2002, perhaps early 2003.

Here's a rather old post dating back to 2001 from the Key Publishing forum regarding the AL-31FN.

J-10A to enter mass production? [Archive] - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

You posted in the thread btw.

I know Kanwa isn't official news. But they actually got it right. My point is that there were at least rumors regarding the engine being used for the original J-10 before production started. In my opinion, the Russian defense industry has never been known for their discretion. If the Russians were providing the engines for the J-20 program, some insider would have said something by now.