Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[kungfugymnast]

I will tell you my final conclusion:

When you see an aircraft turning you must ask 2 questions?

Did it turn at its max turn rate?
To answer that you need to see the bank angle, a 82 deg turn rate is telling you 9Gs are applied no human pilot seated will endure for more than 9Gs for the entire turn, 86 deg the G forces are exponentially increased. (see chart of G load and Bank angle)

Second question what was the altitude?
The answer is:
The best turn of any aircraft is always at sea level (Zhuhai airport is at sea level and the J-20 flew very close to the crowd at very low altitude )

If you look at any aircraft manual the best turn will be at sea level, however some manuals give you 1 km like in the case of Russian aircraft manuals.

So the conclusion is J-20 was turning at sea level and very high bank angles, thus its near its max instantaneous turn rate but low thrust will reduce its sustained turn rate a lot.

My personal conclusion, and here I will leave it here and perhaps in 3 or 4 months or 1 year we can talk about it. it is.

WS-15 must be in the class of 16000-19000kg of thrust, because the J-20 must be as heavy as F-22, or even heavier because stealth demands too much internal volume and the materials and technologies of both aircraft are contemporary ( just a few years difference and China is playing catch up)


Zhuhai showed an unimpresive flight display, because the J-20 has not TVC nozzles, the engines are not WS-15 but an interim engine however the main highlight it was using WS-10s showing at least they can build it with domestic engines, once it has the WS-15 very likely will match or even surpass F-22.

The J-20 flying at Zhuhai was not fully loaded, it did not even have external stores,

Any way I will not extend any more and I really beg you to forgive my unpolite ways, I was rude ( and younger) but you are very nice by forgiving my rude ways.

Saludos

Good one, that's the spirit. Replying in forum is just like debating in court where the evil lawyer will always try to make you angry so that you'll lose control and say the wrong thing. Just stay rational and reply facts. Thanks for the info, guess DCS should really add this 86 degree blackout on human pilot endurance limit.

Most fighters can only maneuver best with minimal air to air missiles to get best turn radius. With WS-10C engines, the J-20A at best could out turn the F-15 but not nimble EF2000, Mirage 2000, Rafale, Su-35, Su-27. J-20A could still win limited dogfight if up against F-35 but not against F-22. Stealth vs stealth air combat will surely get into knife fight since radar & missiles could only track and hit stealth aircraft below 10-15nm or less, nobody knows unless they get to meet for real.

Conclusion, the J-20 is only perfect when it gets WS-15 with TVC if its goal is to counter F-22. Unless there's new navalized stealth fighter at 60ft that is more nimble but then the carrier based fighter might not be able to hit beyond mach 2 so the F-22 could still turn around and speed off fleeing from dogfight.

 

[Brainsucker]

Primarily this one

But a second follow up to that video is this

The question should be Does Binkov really know what he's talking about? Does he a Retired General of a military force or something? I don't believe in him at all.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Most of 6th gen jets will be inspire YF23 design i think

No. More like Dark Sword.

A first look at the 'Dark Sword' – China's supersonic stealth drone

China released images of a new, unmanned, stealth fighter-style jet, and they present a shocking look into how close Beijing has come to unseating the US as the dominant military air power.China has <a href="http://uk.businessinsider.com/the…

www.wearethemighty.com

Defense World

View News at Defense World

www.defenseworld.net

 

[S10]

The question should be Does Binkov really know what he's talking about? Does he a Retired General of a military force or something? I don't believe in him at all.

I think he definitely knows more than the average Joe, but he's far from being an expert.

 

[FuturePAF]

The question should be Does Binkov really know what he's talking about? Does he a Retired General of a military force or something? I don't believe in him at all.

He quotes his sources, which are open source, which could be real or disinformation. Which is why I wanted to know if @Deino thought his numbers were realistic.

 

[Globenim]

He quotes his sources, which are open source

"Open source" sources claim the earth is flat and the average Indian border guard kills 50 PLA 5 Star generals per week.
Binkov is just an American style Disinfo-tainment channel.

 

[Brainsucker]

He quotes his sources, which are open source, which could be real or disinformation. Which is why I wanted to know if @Deino thought his numbers were realistic.

But number doesn't proof anything. Maybe the real battle result will favor China, but there is a chance too, that it can destroy China entirely. Nobody know the real result.

To understand China true power, we should study their capability in their latest standoff against India in 2020. We can see how they handle the logistic, how they deployed their brigades,Their capability to build the infrastructure in battlefield, What is PLA way of thinking / respond to India deployment strategy, their rapid deployment capability, to their preparation to face the worst possible outcome in this incident. That's the true power of PLA today. Not from the number, like what Binkov said in his video.

 

[lcloo]

Binkov sound like an imitator of Pinkov (or a knock-off) . I don't think we should take any serious view on his youtube, one of his video is on how China would attack Singapore.

IMO he is just making China related military video to attract people and try to make money by youtube subscriptions.

I don't see any informative value in his video.

 

[Beast]

Binkov sound like an imitator of Pinkov (or a knock-off) . I don't think we should take any serious view on his youtube, one of his video is on how China would attack Singapore.

IMO he is just making China related military video to attract people and try to make money by youtube subscriptions.

I don't see any informative value in his video.

He is piece of filth. I know american fanboy are his loyal fan.

 

[FuturePAF]

But number doesn't proof anything. Maybe the real battle result will favor China, but there is a chance too, that it can destroy China entirely. Nobody know the real result.

To understand China true power, we should study their capability in their latest standoff against India in 2020. We can see how they handle the logistic, how they deployed their brigades,Their capability to build the infrastructure in battlefield, What is PLA way of thinking / respond to India deployment strategy, their rapid deployment capability, to their preparation to face the worst possible outcome in this incident. That's the true power of PLA today. Not from the number, like what Binkov said in his video.

The US is not India. The US is an actual professional military, with considerable logistical and force projection capabilities. The PLA anticipates for the US to be more capable then itself (hence the asymmetrical capabilities), which is why, even as China reaches parity with the us in key technologies, it does not surpass the US, except that it’s fighting in its region, which is why numbers matter.

this is why I’m asking if Binkov’s numbers sound realistic or are disinformation.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

No. More like Dark Sword.

A first look at the 'Dark Sword' – China's supersonic stealth drone

China released images of a new, unmanned, stealth fighter-style jet, and they present a shocking look into how close Beijing has come to unseating the US as the dominant military air power.China has <a href="http://uk.businessinsider.com/the…

www.wearethemighty.com

Defense World

View News at Defense World

www.defenseworld.net

do you know in what context i m talking about???, does i referred dark sword or something???, in future warfare maneuverability and agiliy will be useless because future war will be fought in BVR arena

 

[kungfugymnast]

The US is not India. The US is an actual professional military, with considerable logistical and force projection capabilities. The PLA anticipates for the US to be more capable then itself (hence the asymmetrical capabilities), which is why, even as China reaches parity with the us in key technologies, it does not surpass the US, except that it’s fighting in its region, which is why numbers matter.

this is why I’m asking if Binkov’s numbers sound realistic or are disinformation.

Binkov came up with Armenia vs Azerbaijan war about 1-2 years before the Karabakh war. Binkov's prediction is more of computer strategy game level which turned out far from accurate. He always left out combat skills and technology in his analysis.

The Karabakh war turns out differently, Azerbaijan won namely because of drone and precision guided attack technology defeating the Armenian (known of their superior fighting skills). Without working air force, the mountainous uneven terrain block ground radar views badly that Azerbaijan drones could loiter freely from SAM threat, designating targets for guided artillery strikes. Binkov failed to look into this at all.

Also, Binkov analysis often showing stealth aircraft can be easily detected and brought down in his scenario of US vs EU, Russia vs Turkey, China vs India, etc. J-20A, F-35, F-22, Su-57 are stealth yet Binkov depicted conventional EF-2000, Gripen, Rafale could actually find out where they are, head in & shoot down couples of them in air to air.

 

[kungfugymnast]

I will tell you my final conclusion:

Quoting you to check this comparison video done by Hong Kong uncle. Just take the J-20A vs F-22A without engaging TVC. What's your opinion in this after watching the video?

I want to compare your review to the uncle's statement

 

[Brainsucker]

Quoting you to check this comparison video done by Hong Kong uncle. Just take the J-20A vs F-22A without engaging TVC. What's your opinion in this after watching the video?

I want to compare your review to the uncle's statement

The English subs?

 

[applesauce]

Binkov came up with Armenia vs Azerbaijan war about 1-2 years before the Karabakh war. Binkov's prediction is more of computer strategy game level which turned out far from accurate. He always left out combat skills and technology in his analysis.

The Karabakh war turns out differently, Azerbaijan won namely because of drone and precision guided attack technology defeating the Armenian (known of their superior fighting skills). Without working air force, the mountainous uneven terrain block ground radar views badly that Azerbaijan drones could loiter freely from SAM threat, designating targets for guided artillery strikes. Binkov failed to look into this at all.

Also, Binkov analysis often showing stealth aircraft can be easily detected and brought down in his scenario of US vs EU, Russia vs Turkey, China vs India, etc. J-20A, F-35, F-22, Su-57 are stealth yet Binkov depicted conventional EF-2000, Gripen, Rafale could actually find out where they are, head in & shoot down couples of them in air to air.

Agreed, Binkov's videos are trash video game levels of analysis.

I remember watching one, might be a taiwan invasion by the PLA with the us backing taiwan.
where he declares that a country like china would run out of guided missiles after something like 6 months of war and therefore its airfare would have minimum effect on RoC/US ground forces after that time.
Like in what scenario, where china, with the largest industrial production on earth, doesn't produce more guided munitions in such a war?
I think in the same video he thinks china will simply send its invasion force toward taiwan with virtually zero protection. its like his analysis was based on the chinese planners and generals being actually brain dead.